Could the RTX 2000 series names be misleading?

[.Apex.]

1 minute ago, Dunzaus said:

Hmm, I guess you were right about that, I must have had mostly CPU demanding games in my mind. I still doubt that you will see those cards that you fear, next year. I hope we will though. I want there to be such leaps, even though my wallet don't like it. But I don't see what would make Nvidia do that, unless there's competition.

honestly i'm more hoping that AMD will make a come back, the prices are too insane right now and i have a feeling they will keep inflating them if AMD does nothing  

and i want Nvidia to release cards every 2 years  i think that's more reasonable, yearly upgrades are crap, makes you feel like shit if they release something so much better so soon, atleast let me get a good use out of my card before the whole industry advances  they can still make big leaps every 2 years though

[i_build_nanosuits]

2 minutes ago, Quadriplegic said:

Benchmarks or didn't happen

https://appuals.com/rtx-2070-beats-the-titan-xp-in-gaming-workloads-and-more-details-from-nvidias-gamescom-keynote/

https://segmentnext.com/2018/08/21/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2070-titan-xp/

[Dunzaus]

.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Dunzaus
replied to wrong comment

[ChernobilChuck]

1 hour ago, syn2112 said:

that's what i thought at first but then i wondered why they didn't show ANY benchmark results? all they kept babbling about is Ray Tracing and how the new cards perform 6x better at Ray Tracing than older cards bla bla bla, which is completely unfair.

maybe the reason they didn't talk about actual performance is because the new cards are lacking, and it's not worth it to show benchmarks because they will be similar.

so IF the performance is lacking then i guess they will release 7nm next year, not many people are gonna buy an RTX 2080 TI or 2080 if the 1080 Ti is so much cheaper, and offers similar results. minus ray tracing.

I really really hope the real reason is why they didn't show benchmarks is because they have a bunch of the 10series cards left over that they want to sell(which we kind of know) and fear that people wouldn't buy them(for the current price) if people knew that the new generation beats them in price to performance(could be a reason for the price increase too) 

 

But this is really just hoping.

 

Your theory is more likely but a man can hope.

[Dunzaus]

26 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

The RTX 2070 perform better than a Titan Xp

The Titan xp is about as good in games, as the 1080ti, so that's not really surprising, we saw that with the last 2 generations as well. 1070 was slightly better than 980ti. It doesn't have to be that much better, in order for that statement to be true.

[Quadriplegic]

18 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

https://appuals.com/rtx-2070-beats-the-titan-xp-in-gaming-workloads-and-more-details-from-nvidias-gamescom-keynote/

https://segmentnext.com/2018/08/21/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2070-titan-xp/

 

I asked for benchmarks, not Nvidia's marketing. They did claim that Turing was 6 times faster than Pascal, in ray tracing, which is no surprise.
Yes, 2070 will be better than Titan XP(ascal) in RTX loads. That we knew all along, but RTX loads are pretty limited at this point.

On a side not, how does Nvidia's ray tracing compare against DX 12's?

[i_build_nanosuits]

6 minutes ago, Dunzaus said:

The Titan xp is about as good in games, as the 1080ti, so that's not really surprising, we saw that with the last 2 generations as well. 1070 was slightly better than 980ti. It doesn't have to be that much better, in order for that statement to be true.

yeah, and that's very impressive imo...

 

970 > 780ti

1070 > or = 980ti

2070 > or = 1080ti

 

im fine with that metric, absolutely.

[i_build_nanosuits]

1 minute ago, Quadriplegic said:

On a side not, how does Nvidia's ray tracing compare against DX 12's?

DX12?!

DX12 is trash, that's why no games were ever really succesful using it...and new upcoming games supporting the new technologies are mostly DX11 games if i'm not mistaken...maybe they will have that faulty semi-DX12 support bolted on to them, i don't know, i hope not.

[Dunzaus]

4 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

yeah, and that's very impressive imo...

 

970 > 780ti

1070 > or = 980ti

2070 > or = 1080ti

 

im fine with that metric, absolutely.

Except it has been 28 months since the last cards came out and we even skipped Volta, so 2070 should really not be = 1080ti. It should be way higher.

[xriqn]

1 minute ago, Dunzaus said:

Except it has been 28 months since the last cards came out and we even skipped Volta, so 2070 should really not be = 1080ti

Notice how he put > = 1080ti. That means greater than or equal to, not that it will definitely be just equal to.

[i_build_nanosuits]

7 minutes ago, Dunzaus said:

Except it has been 28 months since the last cards came out and we even skipped Volta, so 2070 should really not be = 1080ti

and maybe it will be even better, who knows...it's a brand new architecture, it's greatly possible that those cuda cores are much more powerful...and also you guys seem to discredit the ray tracing stuff but it will become very relevant very soon, nvidia showed 4 major titles already that will suport it (asseto corsa competizione, tomb raider, Metro exodus and battlefield 5) and they also showed this:
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-is-listing-21-games-with-rtx-support.html

Which add final fantasy, PUBG, Hitman 2 and many others...

So this is to be taken into consideration as well...Pascal will do shit all of these RTX stuff in those amazing games.

[Dunzaus]

1 minute ago, xriqn said:

Notice how he put > = 1080ti. That means greater than or equal to, not that it will definitely be just equal to.

I know, just how it's been the past few generations. And again, Volta's version of 2070 should have been > or = 1070 , so that's not really saying much.

[i_build_nanosuits]

4 minutes ago, Dunzaus said:

I know, just how it's been the past few generations. And again, Volta's version of 2070 should have been > or = 1070 , so that's not really saying much.

Also my prediction is, seing how different this new architecture is compared to maxwell/pascal...i think the 980ti and 1080ti will now start the ''aging like milk'' part of the process...in that as newer titles will roll out and driver updates for the Turing cards will roll out, the performance difference between them will grow and people will start to complain that the older cards are now falling appart...just like the 780/780ti did a few years ago.

[Dunzaus]

1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

and maybe it will be even better, who knows...it's a brand new architecture, it's greatly possible that those cuda cores are much more powerful...and also you guys seem to discredit the ray tracing stuff but it will become very relevant very soon, nvidia showed 4 major titles already that will suport it (asseto corsa competizione, tomb raider, Metro exodus and battlefield 5) and they also showed this:
https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=news&action=file&id=29081

Which add final fantasy, PUBG, Hitman 2 and many others...

So this is to be taken into consideration as well...Pascal will do shit all of these RTX stuff in those amazing games.

Everything is possible, we haven't seen the benchmarks yet. But all the ray tracing in the world, won't make a card run 60fps in 4K, or heck even 144fps, for a 4K monitor with 144hz.

 

Ray tracing looks impressive, but in the end we need more powerful cards for 4K monitors and VR

[xriqn]

7 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

and maybe it will be even better, who knows...it's a brand new architecture, it's greatly possible that those cuda cores are much more powerful...and also you guys seem to discredit the ray tracing stuff but it will become very relevant very soon, nvidia showed 4 major titles already that will suport it (asseto corsa competizione, tomb raider, Metro exodus and battlefield 5) and they also showed this:
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-is-listing-21-games-with-rtx-support.html

Which add final fantasy, PUBG, Hitman 2 and many others...

So this is to be taken into consideration as well...Pascal will do shit all of these RTX stuff in those amazing games.

Yea pascal will do shit all of the RTX stuff but who honestly cares about RTX unless they're a graphics w***e. I feel like people who are pre ordering are buying into technology that we cannot be certain about real world performance with yet and to me, that's a bad move because what if the real world performance jump outside of RTX stuff isn't that great? To be honest, I think the only reason nvidia is even releasing Turing right now is because they found out AMD was bringing out a competitor to Pascal (Navi).

[Quadriplegic]

4 minutes ago, xriqn said:

Yea pascal will do shit all of the RTX stuff but who honestly cares about RTX unless they're a graphics w***e. I feel like people who are pre ordering are buying into technology that we cannot be certain about real world performance with yet and to me, that's a bad move because what if the real world performance jump outside of RTX stuff isn't that great? To be honest, I think the only reason nvidia is even releasing Turing right now is because they found out AMD was bringing out a competitor to Pascal (Navi).

Or they just want to milk some money before next year, when the manufacturing should move to 7nm. 

 

[ryao]

2 hours ago, syn2112 said:

that's what im afraid of... 7nm is a big jump, so i'm afraid these cards will be obselete when 7nm comes around, because 12nm is basically 16nm, it's not an actual "12" nm.

I thought that the 2080 series was built on 7nm.

[.Apex.]

6 minutes ago, ryao said:

I thought that the 2080 series was built on 7nm.

it's not, it's actually 12nm which is basically 16nm++

[i_build_nanosuits]

17 minutes ago, xriqn said:

 what if the real world performance jump outside of RTX stuff isn't that great?

That's a 2 generation jump...Titan Volta is already a shit load faster than titan Xp in games...so how could one more generation leap deliver such aweful performance?! also, do you think they would charge 1299$ if that card would't deliver? i dont.

[.Apex.]

33 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

DX12?!

DX12 is trash, that's why no games were ever really succesful using it...and new upcoming games supporting the new technologies are mostly DX11 games if i'm not mistaken...maybe they will have that faulty semi-DX12 support bolted on to them, i don't know, i hope not.

i honestly have not seen DX12 do anything better than DX11 so far... maybe when theres DX12 based engines it will perform as promised, but i have no idea.

Vulkan didn't need "vulkan based engines" to seriously impress us, i really wish everyone would start using Vulkan, Doom is so fucking amazing because of it.

[i_build_nanosuits]

1 minute ago, syn2112 said:

Vulkan didn't need "vulkan based engines" to seriously impress us, i really wish everyone would start using Vulkan, Doom is so fucking amazing because of it.

Doom run fine on everything...Doom run fine on a nintendo switch...and with an nvidia card it runs fine in open GL, and in Vulcan...doom simply is not a very demanding game and it's well optimized...the fact that it can run at 15% more FPS when using vulcan which adds absolutely nothing to the experience except a few more frames here and there doesn't make it impressive in the least...at least in my eyes that's how i see it...also, no new games use vulcan.

[.Apex.]

10 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

Doom run fine on everything...Doom run fine on a nintendo switch...and with an nvidia card it runs fine in open GL, and in Vulcan...doom simply is not a very demanding game and it's well optimized...the fact that it can run at 15% more FPS when using vulcan which adds absolutely nothing to the experience except a few more frames here and there doesn't make it impressive in the least...at least in my eyes that's how i see it...also, no new games use vulcan.

actually the advantage with Vulkan is about 20-40% performance bump, but that only ties with AMD.
Nvidia didn't get any advantage with Vulkan but there's a reason for that, it's because AMD uses Asynchronous Compute and Nvidia doesn't that's where the advantage comes in.

but it's reported than RTX uses Async Compute, so i guess we will see performance improvements there as well  

and who says that the frames are wasted? and either way with a performance bump like that, you can basically run the game at higher settings because of it, what's not to like?

or for example Devs can use the hardware more efficiently and do more complex scenes and such etc etc etc

[ryao]

44 minutes ago, syn2112 said:

it's not, it's actually 12nm which is basically 16nm++

Has Nvidia or TSMC confirmed that?

[ryao]

33 minutes ago, syn2112 said:

actually the advantage with Vulkan is about 20-40% performance bump, but that only ties with AMD.
Nvidia didn't get any advantage with Vulkan but there's a reason for that, it's because AMD uses Asynchronous Compute and Nvidia doesn't that's where the advantage comes in.

but it's reported than RTX uses Async Compute, so i guess we will see performance improvements there as well  

and who says that the frames are wasted? and either way with a performance bump like that, you can basically run the game at higher settings because of it, what's not to like?

or for example Devs can use the hardware more efficiently and do more complex scenes and such etc etc etc

It depends on what is being rendered. Vulkan excels in situations where you have amadyl’s law style slowdowns by reducing the time spend per draw call. It is not always going to make a difference.

 

By the way, I am not a graphics developer (I do storage), but assuming that there is no serialization mechanism like a mutex in place, it is possible to (ab)use threading to emulate asynchronous operations. QEMU does it when it is not using AIO for example. Having an asynchronous interface to use is definitely nicer though because it reduces boilerplate.

[Dunzaus]

20 hours ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

That's a 2 generation jump...Titan Volta is already a shit load faster than titan Xp in games...so how could one more generation leap deliver such aweful performance?! also, do you think they would charge 1299$ if that card would't deliver? i dont.

We just have to wait for the benchmarks that comes next month. But, if Nvidia has shown anything, then it's that they are willing skyrocket prices, as soon as they got a monopoly. Which they now have again the high end and have had for some years now, at the enthusiast market. Just like any company would. It's basic economics. Corner the market and raise prices.