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Pio Soesetio

i7 8750h - Power Limit Throttling - Low TDP Even though cooling is capable

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On 30.06.2018 г. at 12:51 PM, Pio Soesetio said:

The laptop does reach 4.1 Ghz. But only when the cpu load is low. It won't even reach 3 Ghz when under 100% load despite the temperatures being low.

 

1. Yes i am

2. Nope, all on max performance settings

3. Yes, i have 2 friends who also owns this laptop. One of them have the same problem with me, although his cpu frequency was slightly higher than mine even though it is still not how it should be. And another friend which has no problem reaching 1000 cb cpu score in cinebench. BIOS versions were the same between mine and my friends'

4. Yes i did. followed some steps that they gave (they asked me to do a disk cleanup and enabling high performance mode which was already set before they asked me to do it. They told me to go to a service center if the problem still occurs.) So i went to the service center.

5. I was out of the return limit for the laptop (3 days after the laptop was bought) So i went to the service center. They first asked me to reset windows. I did and guess what happens, the problem gets even worse. The cpu score was only 580 and gpu was 80 fps (gtx 1050 Ti, fyi i was getting 100+ fps before i reset windows just what a gtx 1050 Ti would get). I showed them the scores and no the laptop is currently at service. They're replacing the motherboard, along with the cpu and gpu. The thing that annoys me at the service center is that the guy there says that if the score is still the same after they replace the motherboard, cpu, and gpu, they would assume that's how it is supposed to be and won't fix it again. The service takes 1 week, and is currently still on in service. Hopefully it fixed the problem.

6. I tried flashing the latest bios from ASUS' website which is version 304, same results. I also tried the first bios (version 303) still same results.

Please do update us if the service fixed your issues!

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 7/2/2018 at 4:17 PM, Jian Yu said:

HI, Pio.

 

I have a same laptop & same problem , also currently at service now .

But I just find a way in mobile 01:

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=233&t=5498238

It said  Windows Update can find the bios V310 which can solve this problem, also improve cinebench score 600 to 1000.

 

If the problem still annoys you. Hopefully it can help you.

 

 

 

 

 

mine was updated to bios 310, but it did nothing to help increase cinebench score. :(
still getting the same scores, even lower the first time i tried.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 7/2/2018 at 4:17 PM, Jian Yu said:

HI, Pio.

 

I have a same laptop & same problem , also currently at service now .

But I just find a way in mobile 01:

https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=233&t=5498238

It said  Windows Update can find the bios V310 which can solve this problem, also improve cinebench score 600 to 1000.

 

If the problem still annoys you. Hopefully it can help you.

 

 

 

 

 

Good hearing that im not the only one having the problem. Please update me after it's done serviced. Thanks.

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Hey, just an update.

 

It's pretty much confirmed that power limit throttling will be a part of life for the Coffee Lake CPUs outside of the i9.

 

It's not possible to run 6 cores at 3.9ghz with 45w.

 

Sorry for the bad news. 

 

Unless it's some chinese bios with no restrictions, you WILL run into PL issues. And it might throttle to 25w if VRMs are overheating too.


Laptop Main

(Retired) Zbook 15: i7-6820HQ, M2000M, 32gb, 512gb SSD + 2tb HDD, 4k Dreamcolor

(Retired) Alienware 15 R3: i7-6820HK, GTX1070, 16gb, 512 SSD + 1tb HDD, 1080p

(Retired) T560: i7-6600U, HD520, 16gb, 512gb SSD, 1620p

(Retired) P650RS: i7-6820HK, 1070, 16gb, 512gb + 1tb HDD, 4k Samsung PLS

(Retired) MBP 2012 Retina: i7-3820QM, GT650M, 16gb, 512gb SSD, 1800p

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1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

It's not possible to run 6 cores at 3.9ghz with 45w

Medium load like gaming is possible


PMs only for laptop recommendations (for now)

 

My daily driver: Lenovo Legion Y530 [REVIEW]

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Check out my blog here

Check out my older laptop reviews here

Laptop ODMsClevo, Tongfang, Quanta

 

My Phone: Xiaomi Mi 9 Lite (Blue colour, protected with XUNDD hard case)

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SDM710 6GB RAM 128GB ROM 6.39" AMOLED 4030mAh+18W fast charge microSD+3.5mm

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 hours ago, Pendragon said:

Hey, just an update.

 

It's pretty much confirmed that power limit throttling will be a part of life for the Coffee Lake CPUs outside of the i9.

 

It's not possible to run 6 cores at 3.9ghz with 45w.

 

Sorry for the bad news. 

 

Unless it's some chinese bios with no restrictions, you WILL run into PL issues. And it might throttle to 25w if VRMs are overheating too.

Well that sucks..  Intel website does say that it has a configurable tdp-down to 35W. Where did you hear that it isn't possible to run it on 3.9Ghz on 45W. Any source?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

UPDATE
Just got my laptop back from the service center. Motherboard with the cpu and gpu in it got replaced. And now the scores are good. 950-970 ish cb on the cinebench. And opengl scores also seems to increase by a bit (5 fps).

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

It is now running @ 3.1 Ghz, 100% on all cores. 35W tdp. should i try undervolting it again? xD or should i just leave it the way it is?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

So, apparently, for some reason, hwmonitor seems to stop the processor from going turbo, it stays at base frequency of 2.2 Ghz. Once i close it, it immediately turbo boosts. Idk why, it's weird. Oh and btw, it actually does reach 45W. I said it was only reaching 35 W because of Hwmonitor. I monitored using throttlestop and it reached 45W. I tried undervolting it and i got a 0.5 Ghz Tubo boost overclock to 3.5 Ghz, originally 3.0 Ghz. Something weird about cinebench that i found out is that at the first attempt, it'll stay at base clock until the middle of the test and then it'll turbo boost. On the second attempt tho, it just goes boost clock all the way. Idk why, but i have to test it twice everytime. Doesn't really matter much tho. I'm glad that the cpu's score got better after the service.

12 hours ago, Pendragon said:

Hey, just an update.

 

It's pretty much confirmed that power limit throttling will be a part of life for the Coffee Lake CPUs outside of the i9.

 

It's not possible to run 6 cores at 3.9ghz with 45w.

 

Sorry for the bad news. 

 

Unless it's some chinese bios with no restrictions, you WILL run into PL issues. And it might throttle to 25w if VRMs are overheating too.

 

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7 hours ago, Pio Soesetio said:

So, apparently, for some reason, hwmonitor seems to stop the processor from going turbo, it stays at base frequency of 2.2 Ghz. Once i close it, it immediately turbo boosts. Idk why, it's weird. Oh and btw, it actually does reach 45W. I said it was only reaching 35 W because of Hwmonitor. I monitored using throttlestop and it reached 45W. I tried undervolting it and i got a 0.5 Ghz Tubo boost overclock to 3.5 Ghz, originally 3.0 Ghz. Something weird about cinebench that i found out is that at the first attempt, it'll stay at base clock until the middle of the test and then it'll turbo boost. On the second attempt tho, it just goes boost clock all the way. Idk why, but i have to test it twice everytime. Doesn't really matter much tho. I'm glad that the cpu's score got better after the service.

 

Im glad it worked out for you and you can find how to mod your own bios with a little research around the net if you ever want to get past that 45w good luck

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first i would try another verstion of windows and then i wwould say it could be a deffect in the motherboard (not giving enough power ) or the cpu which is more common 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Another update. Looks like my gpu is now having problem *sigh*

the core clock and memory clock dips down causing fps drops in game which is annoying. 

The weird thing is that in the gpu temp limit. it sometimes changed to 1 in the graph. Even though the temps was only reaching 60 degrees.

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I had the same problem as you and I sent it to service 10 days ago, currently in. 

 

On tracking status of my product repair, tells me that they ordered new parts, I hope they will solve the problem. 

 

This laptop is pretty bad as I can see... a lot of money for nothing! Games are unplayable on this laptop with 1% fps drops every 5 seconds, even my 4 years old laptop can handle games good than this one which is disappointing.

 

I tested World of Tanks with max setting and ultra on this: 

 

I5 4000U

Nvidia 940M (2Gb Vram)

8Gb RAM (1600 Hz)

1366x 720

 

It reaches around 70-90 fps! Constant!

 

And i compared with this fx504 (my brand new laptop) with same setting of World of Tanks just  resolution putted on 1080p and it reaches 50-59 fps (no v sync) which is a joke and spikes every 5 seconds!!!  

Then I tryed with resolution of old one, it reaches 100 fps with fps drop every 5 seconds to 40!!! Very unplayable.

 

I'll keep you updated after it comes from the service.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 hours ago, The Tiger said:

I had the same problem as you and I sent it to service 10 days ago, currently in. 

 

On tracking status of my product repair, tells me that they ordered new parts, I hope they will solve the problem. 

 

This laptop is pretty bad as I can see... a lot of money for nothing! Games are unplayable on this laptop with 1% fps drops every 5 seconds, even my 4 years old laptop can handle games good than this one which is disappointing.

 

I tested World of Tanks with max setting and ultra on this: 

 

I5 4000U

Nvidia 940M (2Gb Vram)

8Gb RAM (1600 Hz)

1366x 720

 

It reaches around 70-90 fps! Constant!

 

And i compared with this fx504 (my brand new laptop) with same setting of World of Tanks just  resolution putted on 1080p and it reaches 50-59 fps (no v sync) which is a joke and spikes every 5 seconds!!!  

Then I tryed with resolution of old one, it reaches 100 fps with fps drop every 5 seconds to 40!!! Very unplayable.

 

I'll keep you updated after it comes from the service.

Mine had the problem after it being service, fps drops. But i manage to fix it by undervolting the gpu. Runs smoothly now.

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Glad to hear I wasn't the only one having this issue, there aren't that many reported instances of it on the Internet it seems. Just wanted to note that I was testing a FX504 recently and had exactly the same issues noted in this thread with BIOS version 310, power limit throttling at 25W TDP that could not be modified in software.

 

Out of the box I get ~949 in Cinebench, I was able to increase this to a ~1012 average with a -0.150v undervolt though. Temps were perfectly fine, never passing 74c in Aida64 stress test.

 

I also noticed that while gaming for a few hours while plugged in, the battery charge level dropped from 100% to 85%, perhaps indicating that the 130w power brick isn't able to provide enough power to the machine, which may be why they've limited it to 25W in the first place. This makes me wonder if a future BIOS update would help, if adequate power can't be provided with the limit in place how will it go with a higher limit / limit removed? Maybe they could do something to only limit if the overall system power draw is past a certain point rather than just arbitrarily always limiting the CPU to 25W.


I outlined this and the results/benchmarks in full details here if anyone is interested:

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 hours ago, JarrodsTech said:

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one having this issue, there aren't that many reported instances of it on the Internet it seems. Just wanted to note that I was testing a FX504 recently and had exactly the same issues noted in this thread with BIOS version 310, power limit throttling at 25W TDP that could not be modified in software.

 

Out of the box I get ~949 in Cinebench, I was able to increase this to a ~1012 average with a -0.150v undervolt though. Temps were perfectly fine, never passing 74c in Aida64 stress test.

 

I also noticed that while gaming for a few hours while plugged in, the battery charge level dropped from 100% to 85%, perhaps indicating that the 130w power brick isn't able to provide enough power to the machine, which may be why they've limited it to 25W in the first place. This makes me wonder if a future BIOS update would help, if adequate power can't be provided with the limit in place how will it go with a higher limit / limit removed? Maybe they could do something to only limit if the overall system power draw is past a certain point rather than just arbitrarily always limiting the CPU to 25W.

949 Score with a 25W? WHAT! I was getting only 700 ish score with 25W, 850 ish with Undervolt. Now I'm getting 1115 score with 45 W and undervolt. With 25W TDP, temps was only reaching high 50s and low 60s. But when it is serviced and reached 45 W TDP, it's reaching around 85 Degrees. Idk why but Aida 64 and HWMonitor seems to limit my cpu, it won't turbo boost when the program is on. Try monitoring the TDP using ThrottleStop instead since it doesn't stop mine from turbo boosting. About the battery, I've never experienced the battery charge going down when it's used. 1000 cinebench score with only 25W TDP is insane, I wonder what scores will you get with it having 45W TDP. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 hours ago, JarrodsTech said:

I also noticed that while gaming for a few hours while plugged in, the battery charge level dropped from 100% to 85%,

I forgot to ask/tell you, ASUS has a program called ASUS Battery Health Charging, and if u set it to balanced which is default, it will only charge to 80% when it's on, you can still reach 100% if u charge it off, but it'll probably drain on purpose to reach that battery percentage (I think, didn't see the battery draining but i often times forgot to unplug it after the laptop is turned off and in theory it should reach 100% and after some usage, which is a few hours, i see my battery and it is 80% just like what the batetry health is set to.) Try setting it to full capacity mode and see if the battery still drains while charging.Capture.PNG.d18dd5c029b0d17e8c49e56a15dc53ac.PNG

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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 hours ago, JarrodsTech said:

Temps were perfectly fine, never passing 74c in Aida64 stress test.

Just watched ur review. Now I understand why ur temps are lower. Ambient temp. It's 30 celsius here XD.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 hours ago, JarrodsTech said:

power limit throttling

Kinda off topic of this discussion but, another info on game stuttering, I monitored the gpu clock speeds and it was dropping because the on and off. So what i did to fix it was that i undervolted the gpu letting it go pretty low that it would voltage throttling all the time so it stays stable. Clock speeds run at the stock, so no performance loss and temps was 10 celsius lower before undervolted. Don't know if it was that, that fix it or just basically undervolting, but it works. 

check this post for more information :

Capture.PNG

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5 hours ago, Pio Soesetio said:

Just watched ur review. Now I understand why ur temps are lower. Ambient temp. It's 30 celsius here XD.

Yeah it's winter here in Australia so quite cool at the moment!

7 hours ago, Pio Soesetio said:

I forgot to ask/tell you, ASUS has a program called ASUS Battery Health Charging, and if u set it to balanced which is default, it will only charge to 80% when it's on, you can still reach 100% if u charge it off, but it'll probably drain on purpose to reach that battery percentage (I think, didn't see the battery draining but i often times forgot to unplug it after the laptop is turned off and in theory it should reach 100% and after some usage, which is a few hours, i see my battery and it is 80% just like what the batetry health is set to.) Try setting it to full capacity mode and see if the battery still drains while charging.Capture.PNG.d18dd5c029b0d17e8c49e56a15dc53ac.PNG

Hmm I didn't notice that, I'll have to check it out.

5 hours ago, Pio Soesetio said:

Kinda off topic of this discussion but, another info on game stuttering, I monitored the gpu clock speeds and it was dropping because the on and off. So what i did to fix it was that i undervolted the gpu letting it go pretty low that it would voltage throttling all the time so it stays stable. Clock speeds run at the stock, so no performance loss and temps was 10 celsius lower before undervolted. Don't know if it was that, that fix it or just basically undervolting, but it works. 

check this post for more information :

Capture.PNG

Yeah makes sense that that could help given the overall power limit throttling the laptop appears to have.

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Just came from the service and nothing happened :( ... still is worst on gaming with a lot of stuttering, fps drop ... they doesn't found any issue on the motherboard...

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Can you show me a little tutorial how did u undervolted the CPU and GPU, maybe that's the problem... I tried something but I don't know if it's good.

 

My RIG:

 

Name: Asus FX504GD-E4075

 

Screenshot_7.png.4cde56e487a0fc33d88d5c486ce9a101.png

 

Watch below my results in testing...

 

Screenshot_2.png.6dbbdf01f5e16655795ca9121c629c51.pngScreenshot_1.png.ab686fd488a441d41bb2cc5e81ed4d86.pngScreenshot_6.png.d3d91f22f68680b948877605a6f01413.pngScreenshot_5.png.859cdb333a4530ea4d527467952f0b9f.pngScreenshot_4.png.ba77d60921159227730d47e8d1d4bce1.pngScreenshot_3.png.fa9a75b91f29818e344d97a040998992.png

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