i7 8750h - Power Limit Throttling - Low TDP Even though cooling is capable

[Pio Soesetio]

I recently bought an ASUS TUF FX504 with an i7 8750h. The first time i ran cinebench (cpu) it has a 900+ score. Note that the first time i run cinebench i don't have any programs like intel xtu, throttlestop, cpuz, etc, just brand new out of the box with nothing installed. The next time i run it came out with only 750 ish score. I monitored the cpu and it was only running at 2.2 Ghz. This was n't caused by thermal throttling, because the cpu's temperatures were really low, only 55-60 celsius under full load. I opened intel xtu and noticed that it has a power limit throttling. And in throttlestop it shows that one of its limits is PL2. I tried undervolting the cache and the cpu core which resulted in an increase to the cpu frequency to 2.5-2.6 Ghz when running cinebench. Same case like before, thermals are not a problem, still hitting 55-60 celsius. Undervolting the cpu cache increases the cpu frequency, while the core clock doesn't do much, but i can only do it until a certain point. The power limit throttling is still there and i think it is the one that is causing the cpu frequency to be so low. Another thing that i noticed is that when the cpu is running all cores at 100% load, the pacakge tdp is only 25W despite the rated tdp at 45W. Changing the package power limit also didn't help. I changed it to 70W but it only reaches a max of 25W TDP when running cinebench. Btw, the cpu can still run up to 4 Ghz in daily tasks where the cpu load is pretty low. Please help me out. 

[genexis_x]

Let me tell you why. That model has a crap cooling. It has firmware throttling set at a fairly low temp. Since you've tried undervolting, there's nothing you can do (don't undervolt core voltage too much). You can't change the PL1 limit too (firmware lock).

[Imglidinhere]

It's a brand new machine as far as I'm aware. Wait for a BIOS update and pray.

[Pio Soesetio]

9 hours ago, ZM Fong said:

Let me tell you why. That model has a crap cooling. It has firmware throttling set at a fairly low temp. Since you've tried undervolting, there's nothing you can do (don't undervolt core voltage too much). You can't change the PL1 limit too (firmware lock).

You sure about the crap cooling? Look at the temps... it's only reaching around 60 degrees at stress test. The temps are the same when not undervolted. When it is undervolted, the core frequency increases but the tdp doesn't reduce or increase. and playing games (using both gpu and cpu), the temps never reach 70 celsius on the gpu and the cpu still stays around 60 degrees.

[Pio Soesetio]

7 hours ago, Imglidinhere said:

It's a brand new machine as far as I'm aware. Wait for a BIOS update and pray.

Yeah hopefully there's a bios update

[Pio Soesetio]

9 hours ago, ZM Fong said:

Let me tell you why. That model has a crap cooling. It has firmware throttling set at a fairly low temp. Since you've tried undervolting, there's nothing you can do (don't undervolt core voltage too much). You can't change the PL1 limit too (firmware lock).

Cant the PL2 limit be changed? The thing that limits the processor is the PL2.

[genexis_x]

29 minutes ago, Pio Soesetio said:

Look at the temps... it's only reaching around 60 degrees at stress test

This is because the clock speeds are low

28 minutes ago, Pio Soesetio said:

Cant the PL2 limit be changed? The thing that limits the processor is the PL2.

Cannot, firmware lock

[Firebat246]

I'm experiencing the same thing on my Razer Blade 15. No matter how cool I keep the cpu I get power limit throttling. I'm thinking only a bios update could fix this.

[genexis_x]

7 minutes ago, Firebat246 said:

Razer Blade 15

Same issue: bad cooling

[Firebat246]

15 minutes ago, ZM Fong said:

Same issue: bad cooling

No, as OP said.. even when the temps are in check across the board.. there is power limit throttling. You should not be getting throttled down if you are sitting at 70c on the CPU. Bad cooling=Not the issue. 

[unclewebb]

In the Turbo Power Limits window, it shows that TDP Level Control is checked and this is set to 1.  Try setting that to 0.  I think HWiNFO can show what TDP Level the CPU is currently running in.  TDP Level 1 is the low power level so you definitely do not want to be in that.  This setting can be set in multiple locations within the CPU.  ThrottleStop does not have access to all of these locations so you might be screwed.  

 

When Speed Shift is enabled, there is no need to use the Set Multiplier or SpeedStep options.  Both of these are ignored when Speed Shift is enabled. 

 

There is also no need to check the Clock Modulation setting unless you see a number less than 100.0 in the Mod column or in the TS Log File.  I do not think this throttling method is being used anymore.  Intel has created new power based throttling methods that laptop manufacturers love to use.  An 8750H is a wonderful CPU in theory but when limited to only 25 Watts, it is kind of a joke.

[genexis_x]

1 hour ago, Firebat246 said:

No, as OP said.. even when the temps are in check across the board.. there is power limit throttling. You should not be getting throttled down if you are sitting at 70c on the CPU. Bad cooling=Not the issue. 

I think you don't understand here. Because it has a bad cooling, there is firmware set inside that limits the power draw. Low clocks=Low temps

[Pio Soesetio]

53 minutes ago, unclewebb said:

ThrottleStop does not have access to all of these locations so you might be screwed.  

 

So where can i change that?

[Pio Soesetio]

2 hours ago, ZM Fong said:

This is because the clock speeds are low

Which means that the clock speed can and should be higher because the temps are still low. But that doesn't happen because of power limits.

[genexis_x]

36 minutes ago, Pio Soesetio said:

Which means that the clock speed can and should be higher because the temps are still low. But that doesn't happen because of power limits.

With higher clocks the temps will become higher too. The main issue here is the cooling, it's one of the worst cooling design I've ever seen. Not capable of handling a 8750H. If you don't believe what I said then I'll leave this thread.

[Pio Soesetio]

14 minutes ago, ZM Fong said:

With higher clocks the temps will become higher too. The main issue here is the cooling, it's one of the worst cooling design I've ever seen. Not capable of handling a 8750H. If you don't believe what I said then I'll leave this thread.

Yes cooling is not the best but it can still be pushed higher. I've seen other laptops that will hit higher clock speeds even though at the cost of hitting 85-95 celsius. But this just can't. I would rather see my cpu hit 85 celsius but with a higher clock speed rather than just being limited to 2.7 Ghz even though it's not hot. I'm just looking for a solution so that i can break through that power limit throttling and reach higher clock speeds even though it will run hotter. And you can leave if you want. Ik it's cooling's not the best but the cpu could still run better with that cooling solution.

[genexis_x]

3 minutes ago, Pio Soesetio said:

I'm just looking for a solution so that i can break through that power limit throttling and reach higher clock speeds even though it will run hotter.

There's no solution for that. Firmware locked. See Notebookcheck and Ultrabookreview reviews for more info.

[Pio Soesetio]

28 minutes ago, ZM Fong said:

There's no solution for that. Firmware locked. See Notebookcheck and Ultrabookreview reviews for more info.

link pls

[unclewebb]

12 hours ago, unclewebb said:

In the Turbo Power Limits window, it shows that TDP Level Control is checked and this is set to 1.  Try setting that to 0. 

Did you try changing that setting in ThrottleStop yet?  Did you try HWiNFO yet to monitor for this? 

 

Intel calls this cTDP or configurable TDP.  It allows individual manufacturers to easily lower the TDP power limit below the 45 Watt rated limit.  When pressed hard, the CPU will throttle back its speed so it does not exceed this lower TDP value.  This throttling is power related, not temperature related.  

 

Your screenshot also shows that Asus lowered the thermal throttling temperature from the Intel rated 100°C to 88°C so I will not be surprised if they also lowered the power limit.  As a consumer, sometimes problems like this are impossible to solve.  The only solution is to put the laptop back in the box and tell Asus that they can have it back.  Its performance does not live up to its appearance.  

[Pio Soesetio]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:42 PM, unclewebb said:

Did you try changing that setting in ThrottleStop yet?  Did you try HWiNFO yet to monitor for this? 

 

Intel calls this cTDP or configurable TDP.  It allows individual manufacturers to easily lower the TDP power limit below the 45 Watt rated limit.  When pressed hard, the CPU will throttle back its speed so it does not exceed this lower TDP value.  This throttling is power related, not temperature related.  

 

Your screenshot also shows that Asus lowered the thermal throttling temperature from the Intel rated 100°C to 88°C so I will not be surprised if they also lowered the power limit.  As a consumer, sometimes problems like this are impossible to solve.  The only solution is to put the laptop back in the box and tell Asus that they can have it back.  Its performance does not live up to its appearance.  

yes I have tried changing it to 0 in throttlestop and nothing seems to happen. What should i monitor in HWINFO

[gQx]

just a thought. From XTU make your

 

Core Voltage:1,100V

Processor Core IccMax: take slider all the way to the right

Turbo Boost Short Power Max: Disable

Turbo Boost Power Max: 60W

Turbo Boost Power Time Window: 96 sec

 

And run the benchmark test lets see the results

[Pio Soesetio]

9 hours ago, gQx said:

just a thought. From XTU make your

 

Core Voltage:1,100V

Processor Core IccMax: take slider all the way to the right

Turbo Boost Short Power Max: Disable

Turbo Boost Power Max: 60W

Turbo Boost Power Time Window: 96 sec

 

And run the benchmark test lets see the results

how do i disable turbo boost short power max?

edit : nevermind, found it

[Pio Soesetio]

9 hours ago, gQx said:

just a thought. From XTU make your

 

Core Voltage:1,100V

Processor Core IccMax: take slider all the way to the right

Turbo Boost Short Power Max: Disable

Turbo Boost Power Max: 60W

Turbo Boost Power Time Window: 96 sec

 

And run the benchmark test lets see the results

[gQx]

I forgot to mention about reducing offset voltage these are my settings and cpu wont go below 3.88GHz while temperature doesnt exceed 82-83C and no throttling. I use both xtu and throttlestop at the same time I didnt try using just one yet sorry. cinebench 1237 

[Pio Soesetio]

It is still power limit throttling and the tdp's still at 25 W...