ORA Headphones Now On Kickstarter

[Bakajinsama]

Apologies if this topic has been covered, I did do a quick search of the site and didn't see anything by name. I recently happened upon a couple different articles ( VentureBeat and Digital Trends ) covering a new set of headphones on Kickstarter by a group calling themselves ORA. The primary innovation is that they say they've figured out a way to create drivers out of an "over 95%" graphene solution, resulting in a material that is exceptionally stiff and lightweight, allowing for higher quality while reducing the power necessary to drive the material as compared to heavier (they mostly compare it to mylar) materials. Now I'm not one to believe everything I see on kickstarter projects, but the page has a frankly impressive amount of technical data, as well as testimonials from a number of noteworthy experts (I honestly don't follow experts in the sound engineering field, so I can't vouch for how 'legit' they are), including an approval from Gustavo Dudamel - they even have pairs of these headphones signed by him at the highest tier.

 

TL;DR - they seem honestly pretty impressive if they do what they say they'll do, and it was enough for me to buy in at the '50% off' level while it was still around. I'm not really here to boost hype or anything, I'm more interested in discussion. I'm just starting to get into the audiophile scene and these will really be my first set of high-end headphones not meant for "gamers" (a qualifier I'm rapidly getting tired of hearing). I'd love to hear from some of the more knowledgeable people about the technical specs, and if they really seem like an amazing product, I figured it couldn't hurt to get them a bit more visibility.    

 

Kickstarter page: "ORA: The World's First Graphene Headphones"

[Changis]

it seems that graphene is the new thing to make speakes out of, it outperforms many high end speakers

http://newatlas.com/graphene-speaker-beats-sennheiser-mx400/31660/

looks pretty interesting, both headphones and the technology

[SSL]

I call bullshit. At least for headphones, sound quality comes as much from the design of the enclosure and pads as from the drivers. For example a Sennheiser HD 800 driver measures fairly flat in open air, but in the actual enclosure designed for it exhibits the excessive brightness that the headphone is known for. In other words, breakup is not the only cause of linear or non-linear distortion in headphone drivers.

 

I also find it suspicious that they don't do comparisons with other high-end drivers, such as aluminum ribbon tweeters or the Beryllium divers used by focal in their Utopia headphone.

 

This technology clearly has potential, but I think it's advantages specifically for headphone applications are being overblown.

[Spuriae]

1 hour ago, SSL said:

I call bullshit. At least for headphones, sound quality comes as much from the design of the enclosure and pads as from the drivers. For example a Sennheiser HD 800 driver measures fairly flat in open air, but in the actual enclosure designed for it exhibits the excessive brightness that the headphone is known for. In other words, breakup is not the only cause of linear or non-linear distortion in headphone drivers.

 

I also find it suspicious that they don't do comparisons with other high-end drivers, such as aluminum ribbon tweeters or the Beryllium divers used by focal in their Utopia headphone.

 

This technology clearly has potential, but I think it's advantages specifically for headphone applications are being overblown.

No kidding. The amount to which just placing different damping materials inside the cups changes the sound is surprising. It's no accident that you can have normal T50RP's super cheap and heavily modded T50RP's trading blows with summit-fi gear. The fact that the same drivers are used in a massive selection of different-sounding headphones should be a dead giveaway of this.

 

I'm skeptical of everything until I see proof, and this is no different. I'm especially dubious of their technology being stacked graphene flakes; if their polymer can really retain the physical properties of graphene for this price, why are they using it on headphones instead of changing the world with their miracle substance? And they're Bluetooth headphones... whatever they are, they're not targeted towards the normal high-end audio consumer.

 

Then again, I'm naturally a skeptic and these people seem to understand what they're talking about. Wait for a reputable review, I guess.

[SSL]

4 hours ago, Nimrodor said:

why are they using it on headphones instead of changing the world with their miracle substance

 

Right, and why is this amazing technology being rolled out through kickstarter and not by a major player like Seas or Harmon? I would assume that these companies have already tested and discarded the viability of graphene, or else are already working on their own implementations.

 

4 hours ago, Nimrodor said:

And they're Bluetooth headphones... whatever they are, they're not targeted towards the normal high-end audio consumer.

 

Of course, it makes complete sense to develop a groundbreaking driver technology and then handicap it with the most cancerous audio interface possible.

[Bakajinsama]

Definitely good points. Like I said before, I'm kinda stradling skepticism and optimism. I don't think these things will be worth the $500 they say they'll charge for 'em. But maybe $300? And I doubt the sound quality is going to be the best in the world. But I do think this will open up the 'mid-range' of headphones to much higher quality, creating situations where much less power is needed to drive headphones, allowing things like bluetooth headphones to be a bit higher quality than they would otherwise be? I dunno.

 

Quote

Of course, it makes complete sense to develop a groundbreaking driver technology and then handicap it with the most cancerous audio interface possible.

This has been a huge issue in the comments. They even set their first 'stretch goal' to include the aptX HD codec, which I would've just assumed ought to be in to begin with. I think their reasoning was that such things would be handled by an external DAC/amp, and if you were going for higher quality sound you'd be using that stuff anyways? Still, definitely a questionable decision.

[SSL]

15 hours ago, Bakajinsama said:

Definitely good points. Like I said before, I'm kinda stradling skepticism and optimism. I don't think these things will be worth the $500 they say they'll charge for 'em. But maybe $300? And I doubt the sound quality is going to be the best in the world. But I do think this will open up the 'mid-range' of headphones to much higher quality, creating situations where much less power is needed to drive headphones, allowing things like bluetooth headphones to be a bit higher quality than they would otherwise be? I dunno.

 

This has been a huge issue in the comments. They even set their first 'stretch goal' to include the aptX HD codec, which I would've just assumed ought to be in to begin with. I think their reasoning was that such things would be handled by an external DAC/amp, and if you were going for higher quality sound you'd be using that stuff anyways? Still, definitely a questionable decision.

 

My main concern is that the touch controls, internal amp, USB C receiver and BT receiver are all adding to the cost while adding nothing to sonics. If the driver doesn't live up to the hype, this is probably shaping up to be a $100-200 headphone at best in terms of actual audio quality. Even if it does, extra work and cost must be expended to ensure that the earcups aren't acoustically compromised due to the presence of extra active electronics (just in terms of the space occupied).

[Roll33]

I have the same concern but they have done a great job in giving answers under 'Comments'at the Kickstarter. What I wrote somewhere else:

 

McGill-born technology aims to revolutionize headphones, speakers

 

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/mcgill-born-technology-aims-to-revolutionize-headphones-speakers

 

Video with a bit more questions and answer..

 

https://www.facebook.com/orasound/videos/1198377666938784/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE

 

They have a patent that I found..and they did post this; That is our 2014 patent, we also have several peripheral patents protecting our core IP. We currently have several patents protecting our manufacturing process, the recipe of our GrapheneQ material, and the application of our material to dynamic transducers. We also have a few more patents in the queue.

 

https://www.google.com/patents/WO2016054723A1?cl=en&dq=graphene+patents+speakers&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfrqScl-rUAhWCVz4KHTTWDgQQ6AEIVzAH

 

and Apple Inc also have a patent

 

Ora answered when someone question re Apple patent:

There are a few patents out there related to Graphene audio transducers including Alex Zettl’s patent on pristine Graphene in an electrostatic application and a KAIST filing on Graphene Oxide in a thermoacoustic transducer. Our core patent on the application of Graphene Oxide to dynamic transducers pre-dates Apple’s patent. Also, Apple’s patent is specific to using a small amount of Graphene flakes to selectively stiffen a base of another material. We also have peripheral patents on the method we use to deposit our membranes and the formula we use… So don’t worry, we are covered!

 

Am I gullible? Not crazy about the Bluetooth, electronics. One advantage if it gets produce, there is no duty. Made in China but shipped out of Montreal.

[Roll33]

Check page 129 of "2017 Loudspeaker Industry Sourcebook"

 

http://www.gotomylis.com/

 

Re: GrapheneQ: Graphene Composites for Improved Sound Quality and Increased Efficiency in Portable Devices

[SilicateWielder]

On 7/2/2017 at 2:02 AM, Changis said:

it seems that graphene is the new thing to make speakes out of, it outperforms many high end speakers

http://newatlas.com/graphene-speaker-beats-sennheiser-mx400/31660/

looks pretty interesting, both headphones and the technology

Now if only I could get my hands on enough graphene to make this speaker for my headphones:

[SSL]

17 hours ago, Roll33 said:

I have the same concern but they have done a great job in giving answers under 'Comments'at the Kickstarter. What I wrote somewhere else:

 

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call them "great" answers, but sure, they're answers. From what I gather, the main reason that this technology hasn't yet seen the light of day is that they've been busy locking it down with patents before they start getting it into actual products. Great. That doesn't make the crowdfunding route any less of an eyebrow raiser. It still seems to me there is a lack of independent, substantive data on this technology relative to the claims that they are making.

[Roll33]

SSL,

 

Makes sense of what you had written. They did say from the article:  The purpose of this run of headphones is to help the transition into large-scale manufacturing of GrapheneQ as well as to show prospective investors the potential of this new material. 

 

I actually contact Ari , one of the member of the Ora team re having the headphone in Toronto - if I can get some Head Fi groupie to look at her and to give lay some words on the Ora demo headphone.

Ari reply:
Awesome!
Unfortunately we don't send out our demos over the mail, so we will have to fly there to meet them.
Let me know what they say!
Ari

I did contact the ones I know in Toronto, if they would like to listen and if they would write a few words in the headphone media scene. 

 

SSL, if you or if you know anyone that is 'reputable reviewed' probably close to Montreal, you can contact Ari. There is not much time with the campaign coming to a close...

 

ari.pinkas@ora-sound.com

Ari Pinkas, Business lead Co- founder of Ora

[Bakajinsama]

Just a quick update, the kickstarter has achieved the $600k CAD stretch goal and will now feature a Qualcomm aptX HD chipset and Bluetooth 5.0, according to the kickstarter page. Their original justification was that it was unnecessary because you'd be using the headphones for things like computer use or connecting to your phone wirelessly, but if you actually wanted high-quality sound you'd connect to a DAC/amp in wired mode. This stretch goal will allow for higher quality wireless use (though i personally would still connect to the DAC if I wanted to focus on the music... or other high-quality audio content besides music?).

 

Next stretch goals (which I find a bit questionable, but oh well) include a second color option for black at $1mil CAD, and ANC at $1.5mil CAD. It'd be nice if they switched those, or ignored the color options altogether, but there it is.