Standard SATA AHCI controller vs Intel (R) Server express chipset SATA RAID controller.

[ejp]

Hi all, 

I have a new system with a Samsung EVO850 (using for OS boot and applications) and a 2TB HDD Toshiba for storage with no RAID setup. I wanted to know which controller under the device manager my drives should be under for the very best performance possible (please refer to the screen shots to see the exact names of both controllers)

In short, because my system in a new Alienware A51R2 desktop (I know its a Dell but it was free) the BIOS does not have an option to turn AHCI or Intel RAID options on/off, and for some reason any drive plugged into SATA port 1-3 goes to the Intel R Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID controller and anything plugged into the SATA ports 4-6 appear under the Standard STA AHCI controller. 

From my research there seems to be some divide in the community on if the IRST software does anything at all or is necessary at all, but most seem to suggest that if you're not running RAID, then you should not have your drives appear under the Intel RAID controller, thus making the standard AHCI controller a better option.

I wanted to come to this expert community however to make sure that I was making the correct decision in having all of my drives under the Standard SATA AHCI controller instead of the Intel R RAID controller. Moreover, I can only install the IRST software/driver if I move one of the drives to SATA port 1-3, but I'm not sure if it is worth it because this would put my HDD in front of my SSD in the SATA ports, and I dont think that would be best. Could any experts in the community assist me with should I keep all drives under the Standard AHCI controller you see in the screen shot or have both or 1 on the Intel R RAID controller? I dont want to miss out on any features/performance like TRIM, etc and from what I've read, Im leaning towards the Standard SATA AHCI controller option to have all my drives on because it seems to provide everything but I need an expert to confirm. 

SSD, HDD, and optic drive on Standard SATA AHCI controller


OR

SSD and HDD on the Intel SATA RAID Controller

[samcool55]

It looks like the current way it's connected is that the 850 evo and the toshiba drive is connected straight to the chipset, which is good.

 

It's very likely there is a third party SATA controller on the motherboard where the DVD drive is connected to.

 

If you want to be sure if the SSD works as fast as it can, run some benchmarks.

Crystaldiskmark is a decent one.

 

If read and write speeds are around 500MB/s the ssd is working as fast as SATA allows it to.

[ejp]

Okay, ill run and post some benchmarks on the SSD and the HDD using AS SSD and Samsung magician so that you can confirm. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

It looks like the current way it's connected is that the 850 evo and the toshiba drive is connected straight to the chipset, which is good.

 

It's very likely there is a third party SATA controller on the motherboard where the DVD drive is connected to.

 

If you want to be sure if the SSD works as fast as it can, run some benchmarks.

Crystaldiskmark is a decent one.

 

If read and write speeds are around 500MB/s the ssd is working as fast as SATA allows it to.

Also, which "way they are connected" are you referring to (just so i'm clear) because I provided 2 setups (1 where my SSD, HDD, and optic drive are found under the Standard SATA AHCI controller physically plugged into SATA port 4 (SSD), SATA port 5 (HDD), and SATA port 6 (optic drive) and 2 - the other setup showing them under the Intel R SATA RAID controller (my SSD plugged into SATA port 1, HDD SATA port 2, and optic drive on SATA port 6 default). 

 

Thus, which good connection are you referring to? I'll get the benchmark screen shots posted very soon, and thank you. 

[samcool55]

Just now, ejp said:

 

Also, which "way they are connected" are you referring to (just so i'm clear) because I provided 2 setups (1 where my SSD, HDD, and optic drive are found under the Standard SATA AHCI controller physically plugged into SATA port 4 (SSD), SATA port 5 (HDD), and SATA port 6 (optic drive) and 2 - the other setup showing them under the Intel R SATA RAID controller (my SSD plugged into SATA port 1, HDD SATA port 2, and optic drive on SATA port 6 default). 

 

Thus, which good connection are you referring to? I'll get the benchmark screen shots posted very soon, and thank you. 

Oh i didn't even spot the first picture.

It's the one where the SSD and HDD are connected to the intel chipset sata ports.

 

The intel SATA controller has RAID support, but that doesn't mean it's in RAID mode.

 

I'll try to keep it simple but you have AHCI and RAID,

You can choose in the BIOS in which mode the SATA controller runs.

it's very likely it's now configured in AHCI.

Even if it was in RAID mode, you wouldn't notice. Drives that are connected to a RAID controller, but are not in a RAID configuration, will work exactly the same as it would be in AHCI.

[samcool55]

10 minutes ago, ejp said:

 

Also, which "way they are connected" are you referring to (just so i'm clear) because I provided 2 setups (1 where my SSD, HDD, and optic drive are found under the Standard SATA AHCI controller physically plugged into SATA port 4 (SSD), SATA port 5 (HDD), and SATA port 6 (optic drive) and 2 - the other setup showing them under the Intel R SATA RAID controller (my SSD plugged into SATA port 1, HDD SATA port 2, and optic drive on SATA port 6 default). 

 

Thus, which good connection are you referring to? I'll get the benchmark screen shots posted very soon, and thank you. 

Oh i didn't even spot the first picture.

It's the one where the SSD and HDD are connected to the intel chipset sata ports.

 

The intel SATA controller has RAID support, but that doesn't mean it's in RAID mode.

 

I'll try to keep it simple but you have AHCI and RAID,

You can choose in the BIOS in which mode the SATA controller runs.

it's very likely it's now configured in AHCI.

Even if it was in RAID mode, you wouldn't notice. Drives that are connected to a RAID controller, but are not in a RAID configuration, will work exactly the same as it would be in AHCI.

[ejp]

10 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Oh i didn't even spot the first picture.

It's the one where the SSD and HDD are connected to the intel chipset sata ports.

 

The intel SATA controller has RAID support, but that doesn't mean it's in RAID mode.

 

I'll try to keep it simple but you have AHCI and RAID,

You can choose in the BIOS in which mode the SATA controller runs.

it's very likely it's now configured in AHCI.

Even if it was in RAID mode, you wouldn't notice. Drives that are connected to a RAID controller, but are not in a RAID configuration, will work exactly the same as it would be in AHCI.

Unfortunately because my BIOS is modified by Alienware, it unbelievably does not have an option in the BIOS to turn on/off AHCI or RAID mode, thus I have to physically move the drives SATA port connection (if connected to SATA port 1-3 drives will appear under Intel R RAID controller but if connected to SATA ports 4-6 they show up under Standard AHCI controller). 

 

My only concern is that Samsung magician software does not detect AHCI or interface when it's on the Intel R RAID controller, but does when it is under the Standard AHCI controller. I can only use RAPID mode when Samsung software confirms AHCI mode. So, if I choose to have all the Drives in SATA port 4-6 under the Standard AHCI controller that would be a bad thing? I wouldn't loose any features or performance correct?

 

I'm just worried about the Intel R SATA RAID controller because i don't know how I can confirm that AHCI is in fact running and provided by that controller, but AHCI obviously is under the SATA AHCI controller, thus I've been leaning towards keeping the drives under the Standard AHCI controller--would this be a bad thing?

[samcool55]

1 minute ago, ejp said:

Unfortunately because my BIOS is modified by Alienware, it unbelievably does not have an option in the BIOS to turn on/off AHCI or RAID mode, thus I have to physically move the drives SATA port connection (if connected to SATA port 1-3 drives will appear under Intel R RAID controller but if connected to SATA ports 4-6 they show up under Standard AHCI controller). 

 

My only concern is that Samsung magician software does not detect AHCI or interface when it's on the Intel R RAID controller, but does when it is under the Standard AHCI controller. I can only use RAPID mode when Samsung software confirms AHCI mode. So, if I choose to have all the Drives in SATA port 4-6 under the Standard AHCI controller that would be a bad thing? I wouldn't loose any features or performance correct?

Umm it depends which controller is used and how it's connected.

Because it's different for each motherboard the only way to find out is to connect the evo to the standard AHCI controller and run the benchmarks.

 

What i would do is run benchmarks when the evo is connected to the intel controller, run them again when the evo is conencted to the standard controller and compare.

 

If there isn't a big difference you can connect the evo to the standard controller.

If there is a big gap however it's up to you if you believe the performance impact is worth having if you can have RAPID.

 

I would personally leave the evo in the intel controller if there is a big performane gap. I haven't noticed much difference when RAPID is enabled on my system so i don't really care about it.

[ejp]

5 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Umm it depends which controller is used and how it's connected.

Because it's different for each motherboard the only way to find out is to connect the evo to the standard AHCI controller and run the benchmarks.

 

What i would do is run benchmarks when the evo is connected to the intel controller, run them again when the evo is conencted to the standard controller and compare.

 

If there isn't a big difference you can connect the evo to the standard controller.

If there is a big gap however it's up to you if you believe the performance impact is worth having if you can have RAPID.

 

I would personally leave the evo in the intel controller if there is a big performane gap. I haven't noticed much difference when RAPID is enabled on my system so i don't really care about it.

Okay, ill get those benchmarks posted in just a few minutes, Im running them now. Thank you. 

[zMeul]

I've used Intel RST on ICH9R when I used it in RAID mode, when It was in AHCI mode

I use it on my ICH10R in AHCI mode

 

I see no issue using it

[ejp]

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

I've used Intel RST on ICH9R when I used it in RAID mode, when It was in AHCI mode

I use it on my ICH10R in AHCI mode

 

I see no issue using it

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, can you elaborate for me (no abbreviations)

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, ejp said:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, can you elaborate for me (no abbreviations)

Intel RST - Intel Rapid Storage Technology - installs Intel's SATA AHCI driver (or RAID driver if the controller is in RAID mode)

ICH9R - Intel I/O Controller Hub 9 present in my old mobo - supports legacy, AHCI, RAID modes

ICH10R - same as above - present in my current mobo GA-H170-D3H

[ejp]

9 minutes ago, zMeul said:

Intel RST - Intel Rapid Storage Technology - installs Intel's SATA AHCI driver (or RAID driver if the controller is in RAID mode)

ICH9R - Intel I/O Controller Hub 9 present in my old mobo - supports legacy, AHCI, RAID modes

ICH10R - same as above - present in my current mobo GA-H170-D3H

Thank you for the follow-up. The Intel RST I am worried about because mine says Intel R Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID controller which means, in applying what your most recent post said, it is in RAID mode, and this worries me because I cannot choose AHCI or RAID in my BIOS like most other motherboards, thus I'm worried that that Intel R controller saying RAID instead of AHCI means that I am not getting the benifits of AHCI on my SSD (samsung magician also doesn't find AHCI or the interface when its connected to the Intel R SATA controller)

 

A previous posted mentioned that the Intel RAID supports AHCI as well but if my BIOS is locked in RAID mode, I'm worried that AHCI is not enabled. I also have no way of confirming if in fact AHCI is activated when my drives are connected to the Intel R SATA RAID controller. 

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, ejp said:

Thank you for the follow-up. The Intel RST I am worried about because mine says Intel R Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID controller which means, in applying what your most recent post said, it is in RAID mode, and this worries me because I cannot choose AHCI or RAID in my BIOS like most other motherboards, thus I'm worried that that Intel R controller saying RAID instead of AHCI means that I am not getting the benifits of AHCI on my SSD (samsung magician also doesn't find AHCI or the interface when its connected to the Intel R SATA controller)

 

A previous posted mentioned that the Intel RAID supports AHCI as well but if my BIOS is locked in RAID mode, I'm worried that AHCI is not enabled. 

RAID controller has AHCI enabled with it by default

I've told you in the other thread you started few days ago

 

AHCI is disabled only if the controller is set to legacy

[zMeul]

download AS SSD: http://www.techspot.com/downloads/6014-as-ssd-benchmark.html

and check what it sais on the left side under the SSD info

 

here's mine:

[ejp]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

download AS SSD: http://www.techspot.com/downloads/6014-as-ssd-benchmark.html

and check what it sais on the left side under the SSD info

 

here's mine:

Yep, Im getting benchmarks for both now and ill post them in just a few minutes so you can confirm. Thanks friend. 

 

[ejp]

Okay, so here are the following benchmarks requested:

 

1st benchmark is with both SSD and HDD connected to SATA pots 1 and 2. In the image I have provided two benchmarks (one using AS SSD and the other Samsung magician with no RAPID mode enabled), the device manager showing where the drives are appear under, and the Intel R RAID controllers driver version info (please confirm for me if this is the most up to date version of the driver), and lastly the Intel rapid storage technology software window showing both my SSD and HDD:

 

1st screen shot = Benchmark with both SSD and HDD  connected to SATA ports 1 & 2 appearing under the Intel SATA RAID controller in device manager:

 

 

 

 

2nd screen shot = Benchmark with SSD and HDD connected to SATA ports 4 & 5 appearing under Standard SATA AHCI controller in device manager

 

 

Please confirm if these numbers, what you see to the left of AS SSD, and everything you see in the device manager all looks correct.

 

From what I see from the benchmarks is that they are very close with the performance slightly in favor of the Intel RAID controller. Although Samsung Magician does not detect AHCI (I dont know why), AHCI should be activated correct? Please give me your final recommendation of if I should keep the drives in the first setup or the second. 

 

[ejp]

35 minutes ago, zMeul said:

download AS SSD: http://www.techspot.com/downloads/6014-as-ssd-benchmark.html

and check what it sais on the left side under the SSD info

 

here's mine:

 

1 hour ago, samcool55 said:

Umm it depends which controller is used and how it's connected.

Because it's different for each motherboard the only way to find out is to connect the evo to the standard AHCI controller and run the benchmarks.

 

What i would do is run benchmarks when the evo is connected to the intel controller, run them again when the evo is conencted to the standard controller and compare.

 

If there isn't a big difference you can connect the evo to the standard controller.

If there is a big gap however it's up to you if you believe the performance impact is worth having if you can have RAPID.

 

I would personally leave the evo in the intel controller if there is a big performane gap. I haven't noticed much difference when RAPID is enabled on my system so i don't really care about it.

 

I have all the benchmarks posted for both of you above, just wanted to call your attention to it. 

[samcool55]

2 minutes ago, ejp said:

 

 

I have all the benchmarks posted for both of you above, just wanted to call your attention to it. 

You can also use @<insert username> to get someones attention, just so you know

I would leave the SSD in the intel controller, access times are much better and 4k speeds are also very good. And those are the 2 things that actually make a big difference in daily use. The faster the SSD responds the faster the rest of the system can go to work.

 

And usually the system doesn't need 1 big-ass file but a lot of small ones so the 500mb+ speeds are rarely reached during daily use.

[zMeul]

13 minutes ago, ejp said:

From what I see from the benchmarks is that they are very close with the performance slightly in favor of the Intel RAID controller. Although Samsung Magician does not detect AHCI (I dont know why), AHCI should be activated correct? Please give me your final recommendation of if I should keep the drives in the first setup or the second. 

AS SSD confirms you have AHCI enabled in both tests

also, I suggest you stick with the Intel driver and not with the standard one provided by MS - it provides way better 4K results and access times

[ejp]

25 minutes ago, zMeul said:

AS SSD confirms you have AHCI enabled in both tests

also, I suggest you stick with the Intel driver and not with the standard one provided by MS - it provides way better 4K results and access times

Okay so just to be clear, the first image that I posted showing my SSD and HDD under the Intel RAID controller--I got the most up to date driver from my PC manufacturer seen here:

 

One of these downloads is a zip file which I used to update the Intel RAID controller driver in device manager with and the other download is the Intel rapid storage technology software. Once I installed the updated driver it changed my Intel RAID controllers name in device manger from:

- Intel R Desktop/Workstation/Server express chipset SATA RAID controller 

to 

- Intel Chipset SATA RAID Controller

 

Is this now the Intel driver and not the standard one you suggested given that I installed the drivers you see in the image above?

 

Here is an image of the version and driver name it changed to in device manager once installed the updated driver from my manufacturer seen above. Can you confirm that it is fully updated?

 

If you can absolutely confirm that all is well currently with the images I've provided and that I am in fact in AHCI mode, then it seems I will be going with keeping both my SSD and HDD on the Intel SATA RAID controller. To be sure, I should have both SSD AND HDD on the Intel controller yes?

 

 

Thank you sir, and my apologies, it was just info in threads like these: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2472554/ssd-ahci-mode-raid-mode.html that really worried me about AHCI vs RAID as some are saying always use AHCI if you don't have RAID setup and 

[ejp]

26 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

You can also use @<insert username> to get someones attention, just so you know

I would leave the SSD in the intel controller, access times are much better and 4k speeds are also very good. And those are the 2 things that actually make a big difference in daily use. The faster the SSD responds the faster the rest of the system can go to work.

 

And usually the system doesn't need 1 big-ass file but a lot of small ones so the 500mb+ speeds are rarely reached during daily use.

Ah thank you sir. So you can see from the benchmark comparison that my 4k speeds and access times are better in the Intel RAID controller benchmark vs the AHCI controller benchmark? 

 

and...

 

I should keep both my SSD and HDD on the Intel controller instead of the SSD on the Intel controller and my HDD on the AHCI controller?

[zMeul]

4 minutes ago, ejp said:

Thank you sir, and my apologies, it was just info in threads like these: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2472554/ssd-ahci-mode-raid-mode.html that really worried me about AHCI vs RAID as some are saying always use AHCI if you don't have RAID setup and 

leaving the controller in RAID is problematic for older OSes, like W7 who have to inject the Intel driver in the Windows installer for it to recognize the disk drives

it's also a problem if you wish to install Linux, as Intel RST isn't yet completely supported 

[samcool55]

Just now, ejp said:

Ah thank you sir. So you can see from the benchmark comparison that my 4k speeds and access times are better in the Intel RAID controller benchmark vs the AHCI controller benchmark? 

Well yea, for access time lower numbers = better (the smaller the number the smaller the delay)

 

The other ones are higher = better, (high number means higher speed and that's what you want)

 

And there's a score number, which also follows the rule higher = better.

[ejp]

12 minutes ago, zMeul said:

leaving the controller in RAID is problematic for older OSes, like W7 who have to inject the Intel driver in the Windows installer for it to recognize the disk drives

it's also a problem if you wish to install Linux, as Intel RST isn't yet completely supported 

 

10 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Well yea, for access time lower numbers = better (the smaller the number the smaller the delay)

 

The other ones are higher = better, (high number means higher speed and that's what you want)

 

And there's a score number, which also follows the rule higher = better.

Thank you both so so much, I've learned ALOT. If you'd be so kind, could you both address the part in my most recent post about the Intel RAID controller name change and the driver version info I posted for you? Then I promise I'll be out of your hair if that looks correct to you guys :). 

 

For my education, can you describe what this iAstorav in green is to the left of AS SSD benchmark? It is in place of the AHCI that is shown in green when they are under just the AHCI controller. 

 

and...

 

So, it's best to have both the SSD and the HDD on the same Intel Raid Controller instead of having SSD on the Intel Raid controller and the HDD on the AHCI controller, yes?

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, ejp said:

 

Thank you both so so much, I've learned ALOT. If you'd be so kind, could you both address the part in my most recent post about the Intel RAID controller name change and the driver version info I posted for you? Then I promise I'll be out of your hair if that looks correct to you guys :). 

 

and...

 

So, it's best to have both the SSD and the HDD on the same Intel Raid Controller instead of having SSD on the Intel Raid controller and the HDD on the AHCI controller, yes?

1st thing - dunno what to tell you

 

2nd thing - it won't harm the HDD nor the SSD in any way shape or form in you keep them on the same controller interface