is ubiquiti any good?

[legopc]

Oh and im pretty sure anything but the edgerouter x will do linerate just fine

Edit: BTW the only real diference between the edgerouting lite/pro and something mikrotik ccr is the os... They are both hw accelerated routers.

[System Error Message]

28 minutes ago, legopc said:

Oh and im pretty sure anything but the edgerouter x will do linerate just fine

Edit: BTW the only real diference between the edgerouting lite/pro and something mikrotik ccr is the os... They are both hw accelerated routers.

they both have hardware acceleration, not hardware accelerated routers, they just have hardware acceleration as in some cases they may help. At least mikrotik shows relevant information. Almost every routerboard page contains a performance table that includes QoS and firewall. You will not find this information on ubiquiti edgerouter product pages. Ubiquiti is famous for not giving the relevant information so people think that the edgerouters are capable of wirespeed internet when they arent. Mikrotik's hardware acceleration is more flexible than ubiquiti edgerouter's hardware acceleration as you can offload QoS on it so higher priority things can be hardware accelerated (like streaming, gaming) while other traffic can go through the CPU and usual flow. On the edgerouter using QoS just doesnt work with hardware acceleration.

 

They are both an OS running on embedded hardware though you can get mikrotik on x86. Its a software on a piece of hardware just like with a typical desktop.

 

Remember to do your research before buying.

[legopc]

1 hour ago, System Error Message said:

they both have hardware acceleration, not hardware accelerated routers, they just have hardware acceleration as in some cases they may help. At least mikrotik shows relevant information. Almost every routerboard page contains a performance table that includes QoS and firewall. You will not find this information on ubiquiti edgerouter product pages. Ubiquiti is famous for not giving the relevant information so people think that the edgerouters are capable of wirespeed internet when they arent. Mikrotik's hardware acceleration is more flexible than ubiquiti edgerouter's hardware acceleration as you can offload QoS on it so higher priority things can be hardware accelerated (like streaming, gaming) while other traffic can go through the CPU and usual flow. On the edgerouter using QoS just doesnt work with hardware acceleration.

 

They are both an OS running on embedded hardware though you can get mikrotik on x86. Its a software on a piece of hardware just like with a typical desktop.

 

Remember to do your research before buying.

 

Yeah, always trust the manufacturer for accurate information. If I do research on a product I look at a review and not go by the numbers given by the marketing department. And again, most of the edgerouters are fine with line speed internet (apart from the x), it of course depends on the config but I happen to know someone that owns an edgerouter pro that will do line speed just fine. And if I recall correctly the erl will also do line speed or close to line speed. And for most of the prosumers/homlabbers and small businesses, it will be just fine. 

Anything that doesnt get matched to a qos rule still gets routed by the hardware, so it again depends on the config. 

We are also comparing a 350 dollar router to a 100 dollar router for an erl and a 50 dollar router for the edgerouter x. 

[System Error Message]

5 minutes ago, legopc said:

Yeah, always trust the manufacturer for accurate information. If I do research on a product I look at a review and not go by the numbers given by the marketing department. And again, most of the edgerouters are fine with line speed internet (apart from the x), it of course depends on the config but I happen to know someone that owns an edgerouter pro that will do line speed just fine. And if I recall correctly the erl will also do line speed or close to line speed. And for most of the prosumers/homlabbers and small businesses, it will be just fine. 

Anything that doesnt get matched to a qos rule still gets routed by the hardware, so it again depends on the config. 

We are also comparing a 350 dollar router to a 100 dollar router for an erl and a 50 dollar router for the edgerouter x. 

we arent really comparing 350 dollars to 100 dollars, mikrotik offers an even bigger range of routers so you can get routers as low as $30 with mikrotik. Usually when you look at these ranges for networking needs ubiquiti edgerouters are usually a poor choice while mikrotik offers a better choice. With switches ubiquiti is a better choice and with wifi both are equally good with a focus in different areas of needs.

 

hardware NAT shouldnt be a feature to be relied upon. Its ok for some things but not everything. However the speeds of many home internet isnt fast enough to warrant hardware NAT and before the ERL was a thing with its hardware NAT mikrotik RB2011 was used for gigabit connections as on a lean config it is fast without needing hardware NAT (despite it being available now). So happen those ISPs werent using PPPOE either as if they did the ERL cant do gigabit NAT with hardware acceleration.

 

If you're going for one of these routers reliance on hardware NAT is a backward step as thats what basic or consumer routers are for. Not for the huge array of features these routers offer that cannot be accelerated.

[DanTbh]

Access Points are on point, the range is incredible for the price. 

 

Never had any issues with them either. But I've only ever tried their access points so not sure about their other hardware. 

[System Error Message]

Just to clarify im not saying ubiquiti edgerouters are bad, they're better than consumer routers but they tend to be over glorified with the wrong information put out. They arent great for every thing though. Their strength is that they are more versatile than consumer routers, very much like openwrt and more reliable than consumer hardware. The problem is the marketing that ubiquiti does with them. If your internet doesnt exceed 200Mb/s than you can use the edgerouters without any issue. Hardware acceleration on the edgerouter is a feature to be ticked rather than something to be configured. The edgerouter itself is less configurable than a professional cisco router running ios or a mikrotik router. If you need to be able to handle a gigabit internet properly than its best to go for a router like pfsense where performance can be had for cheap with ease of use, features and lots of capability and flexibility while still retaining configurability or you could go with a high end router like mikrotik CCR series.

 

Non consumer routers dont show their true performance in common use. Common use involves NAT which is more taxing than layer 3 routing. For example the ERL may be cable of wirespeed routing (3Gb/s of layer 3 routing) with hardware acceleration but when you use NAT instead with hardware acceleration it drops to 1.3Gb/s. If you use PPPOE that number drops to 800Mb/s. If you apply QoS that number drops to 100Mb/s as hardware acceleration becomes irrelevant. You wont find this information from ubiquiti and its why they dont list it as their numbers would turn out to be embarrassing. With mikrotik they do show their embarrassing numbers, they follow a particular standard of testing and show some charts with a few different settings. They dont describe their NAT speeds either but usually take it to be 1/4 of layer 3 routing as long as its not bottlenecked by port capacity.

 

What ubiquiti is good for, switches and basic reliable wifi, and some extra stuff like networked sensors and controllers like their networked extension plug.

[legopc]

4 hours ago, System Error Message said:

we arent really comparing 350 dollars to 100 dollars, mikrotik offers an even bigger range of routers so you can get routers as low as $30 with mikrotik. Usually when you look at these ranges for networking needs ubiquiti edgerouters are usually a poor choice while mikrotik offers a better choice. With switches ubiquiti is a better choice and with wifi both are equally good with a focus in different areas of needs.

 

hardware NAT shouldnt be a feature to be relied upon. Its ok for some things but not everything. However the speeds of many home internet isnt fast enough to warrant hardware NAT and before the ERL was a thing with its hardware NAT mikrotik RB2011 was used for gigabit connections as on a lean config it is fast without needing hardware NAT (despite it being available now). So happen those ISPs werent using PPPOE either as if they did the ERL cant do gigabit NAT with hardware acceleration.

 

If you're going for one of these routers reliance on hardware NAT is a backward step as thats what basic or consumer routers are for. Not for the huge array of features these routers offer that cannot be accelerated.

17

Anything lower then a ccr router is just a switch that happens to have an os with support for software nat, id never ever recommend that to anyone, id rather just get a tplink something. and the edgerouter x is basically based off a router board, cpu with a gig connection to a switch and some ports. 

And how the hell is hardware nat not something you should upon? I really dont get that... 

[DominicNikon]

14 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

 

Depends - you can use the wizard and it might get you there depending on your setup. If you want PPTP VPN accounts well then have fun with CLI. If the wizard doesn't work for you then you need to setup interfaces, DHCP, NAT, firewall rules and a few other things that slip my mind at the moment.

 

I'd just stick with what you've got and add 2 UAP-AC-Pro's - the lite's are slower in that they are about 800mbit/2 spatial streams. 

what do you think of this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1184036&gclid=CjwKEAjwj92_BRDQ-NuC98SZkWYSJACWmjhlqwT6JrxHtnRnj1mqOvOzgGYfdAxaw11baNMR91SWUhoCD-7w_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&Q=&A=details 2 of these plus

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1139739-REG/ubiquiti_networks_er_x_sfp_edgerouter_x_6_port_poe_sfp.html

so $327

is this set up good? can it handle 200+ mbps

[Unhelpful]

59 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

what do you think of this?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1184036&gclid=CjwKEAjwj92_BRDQ-NuC98SZkWYSJACWmjhlqwT6JrxHtnRnj1mqOvOzgGYfdAxaw11baNMR91SWUhoCD-7w_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677682%2C&Q=&A=details 2 of these plus

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1139739-REG/ubiquiti_networks_er_x_sfp_edgerouter_x_6_port_poe_sfp.html

so $327

is this set up good? can it handle 200+ mbps

Ditch the ER-X... It's shit

[legopc]

2 hours ago, JoeyDM said:

Ditch the ER-X... It's shit

Yes, please go with a Edgerouter lite, youll have a better time with that. And if you need help configuring it there are some people with edgerouters on the schnitzel.team teamspeak

[.:MARK:.]

25 minutes ago, legopc said:

Yes, please go with a Edgerouter lite, youll have a better time with that. And if you need help configuring it there are some people with edgerouters on the schnitzel.team teamspeak

I'd have to say no router at all, no use in configuring a router for someone when they can't use it afterwards...

[DominicNikon]

32 minutes ago, legopc said:

Yes, please go with a Edgerouter lite, youll have a better time with that. And if you need help configuring it there are some people with edgerouters on the schnitzel.team teamspeak

i thought the lite has less poe?

[.:MARK:.]

2 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

i thought the lite has less poe?

Router shouldn't really be the provider of the PoE, use injectors or a PoE switch.

[Unhelpful]

45 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

i thought the lite has less poe?

In exchange for a shittier router.

[DominicNikon]

4 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

In exchange for a shittier router.

so are edge routers good?

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, DominicNikon said:

so are edge routers good?

EdgeRouters (lite, poe5, 8 and pro 8) are good - the ERX's are a terrible product. I worked for the largest reseller of Ubiquiti products in Australia and we didn't carry them for about 6-12 months of them being available because they weren't that great and almost the same price as an ERL

[DominicNikon]

36 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

EdgeRouters (lite, poe5, 8 and pro 8) are good - the ERX's are a terrible product. I worked for the largest reseller of Ubiquiti products in Australia and we didn't carry them for about 6-12 months of them being available because they weren't that great and almost the same price as an ERL

is this one better? 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1049774-REG/ubiquiti_networks_erpoe_5_edgerouter_poe_5_port_router.html

[System Error Message]

7 hours ago, legopc said:

Anything lower then a ccr router is just a switch that happens to have an os with support for software nat, id never ever recommend that to anyone, id rather just get a tplink something. and the edgerouter x is basically based off a router board, cpu with a gig connection to a switch and some ports. 

And how the hell is hardware nat not something you should upon? I really dont get that... 

not a switch, some routers have switch chips some dont. Its not based of a routerboard as the MIPS used by edgerouters arent the same as the MIPS used by mikrotik.

 

The simple guide to choosing an edgerouter depends on your needs. If you need POE than theres an edgerouter with POE out but only as fast as the ERL which still uses usb storage inside. If you need a bit more CPU theres the ER-X. I dont get why people scorn at the ER-X when it has more actual throughput than the ERL thanks to its CPU.

 

Simple edgerouter summary

old ER - 680 Mhz Single core 32 bit MIPS (which is probably what you guys think the ER-X is).

ERL - 500Mhz dual core MIPS, 3 CPU connected ports.

ERPOE-5 500Mhz dual core MIPS, 2 CPU connected ports, 3 ports switched (for POE use make sure the PSU supplies enough watts) with POE out

ER-8 800Mhz dual core MIPS, 8 CPU connected port, upgradeable ram

ERPRO 1Ghz dual core MIPS, 8 CPU connected ports (2 of them are SFP/ethernet combo), upgradeable ram.

ER-X 880Mhz dual core MIPS (slightly different MIPS), 1 CPU connected port, 4 switched. Theres also a variant with SFP (very good for fiber optics)

 

Theres your quick summary of edgerouters so pick one that fits your needs most, I've listed them in order of CPU speed excluding the hardware acceleration. All of them even the ER-X are 64 bit. All of them have hardware acceleration for various things but the ER-X is the newest so thats why it got hardware NAT late to the game. I dont know why you scorn at it as ram doesnt matter unless you are running other things on it.

 

If choosing between consumer and edgerouter the edgerouter is better but compared to other enterprise capable routers the edgerouter is the worst of them all.

 

 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, System Error Message said:

I dont get why people scorn at the ER-X when it has more actual throughput than the ERL thanks to its CPU.

It just doesn't though, throw specs out the door since they really can be meaningless. Everyone that has used an ER-X and and ERL all say they ER-X is garbage and even a Ubnt system integrator and reseller is saying it is garbage. Opinions and spec sheets do not out way actual facts from real usage.

 

If it was a faster and better device it would be a higher cost item and marketed as such. That's just sales 101, don't undercut yourself.

 

Edit: 

Also the processors in the ER-X and ERL/ERPRO are completely different architecture.

ER-X: MIPS32

ERL/ERPRO: MIPS64

[DominicNikon]

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It just doesn't though, throw specs out the door since they really can be meaningless. Everyone that has used an ER-X and and ERL all say they ER-X is garbage and even a Ubnt system integrator and reseller is saying it is garbage. Opinions and spec sheets do not out way actual facts from real usage.

 

If it was a faster and better device it would be a higher cost item and marketed as such. That's just sales 101, don't undercut yourself.

if there routers are so bad should i just use my nighthawk and buy a pro access point?

[leadeater]

Just now, DominicNikon said:

if there routers are so bad should i just use my nighthawk and buy a pro access point?

Yes, not only would this be cheaper but also easier since the current router is already setup and you know how to use it. If you feel at a later time you do want to replace your router then have a look at a few different options and not just from Ubiquiti.

[DominicNikon]

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yes, not only would this be cheaper but also easier since the current router is already setup and you know how to use it. If you feel at a later time you do want to replace your router then have a look at a few different options and not just from Ubiquiti.

Can the night hawk and a Ubiquiti ap switch of easy?

[legopc]

12 hours ago, System Error Message said:

not a switch, some routers have switch chips some dont. Its not based of a routerboard as the MIPS used by edgerouters arent the same as the MIPS used by mikrotik.

 

The simple guide to choosing an edgerouter depends on your needs. If you need POE than theres an edgerouter with POE out but only as fast as the ERL which still uses usb storage inside. If you need a bit more CPU theres the ER-X. I dont get why people scorn at the ER-X when it has more actual throughput than the ERL thanks to its CPU.

 

Simple edgerouter summary

old ER - 680 Mhz Single core 32 bit MIPS (which is probably what you guys think the ER-X is).

ERL - 500Mhz dual core MIPS, 3 CPU connected ports.

ERPOE-5 500Mhz dual core MIPS, 2 CPU connected ports, 3 ports switched (for POE use make sure the PSU supplies enough watts) with POE out

ER-8 800Mhz dual core MIPS, 8 CPU connected port, upgradeable ram

ERPRO 1Ghz dual core MIPS, 8 CPU connected ports (2 of them are SFP/ethernet combo), upgradeable ram.

ER-X 880Mhz dual core MIPS (slightly different MIPS), 1 CPU connected port, 4 switched. Theres also a variant with SFP (very good for fiber optics)

 

Theres your quick summary of edgerouters so pick one that fits your needs most, I've listed them in order of CPU speed excluding the hardware acceleration. All of them even the ER-X are 64 bit. All of them have hardware acceleration for various things but the ER-X is the newest so thats why it got hardware NAT late to the game. I dont know why you scorn at it as ram doesnt matter unless you are running other things on it.

 

If choosing between consumer and edgerouter the edgerouter is better but compared to other enterprise capable routers the edgerouter is the worst of them all.

 

 

 

 

If you take a look at the block diagram for those red routers made by mikrotik you will be able to see it is really just a switch with a cpu hooked up to it. 

A lot of people "scorn" at the x because its a basic cpu with a couple of interfaces that happens to run something linux like. Nothing special and nothing a consumer shit thing cant beat. And you cant really say "it has more through put then the erl" because thats not how it works... and is simply not true. 

Just going to assume you made that list for op

And I still expect an explanation for the " hardware NAT shouldnt be a feature to be relied upon. " bullshit  

[System Error Message]

3 hours ago, legopc said:

If you take a look at the block diagram for those red routers made by mikrotik you will be able to see it is really just a switch with a cpu hooked up to it. 

A lot of people "scorn" at the x because its a basic cpu with a couple of interfaces that happens to run something linux like. Nothing special and nothing a consumer shit thing cant beat. And you cant really say "it has more through put then the erl" because thats not how it works... and is simply not true. 

Just going to assume you made that list for op

And I still expect an explanation for the " hardware NAT shouldnt be a feature to be relied upon. " bullshit  

A lot of features that the edgeOS offers cannot be accelerated. Whats the point of getting an edgerouter when you arent going to use the features it offers? Its like saying you bought a ferrari and drive it like a prius.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, System Error Message said:

A lot of features that the edgeOS offers cannot be accelerated. Whats the point of getting an edgerouter when you arent going to use the features it offers? Its like saying you bought a ferrari and drive it like a prius.

What specifically are you saying can't be accelerated??