workstation Bumblebee: mATX Workstation Build (Extreme, Watercooled, Small Form Factor)

[Quinquangular]

1 minute ago, mikat said:

why would you get a 650$ ten core xeon at 2.2 Ghz when you can get a 5820k/6800k/6850k that you can overclock? they would beat the xeon in rendering times and such and they would have much better per core performance?

As the post says, I will be using this rig for virtual machines. I run about 10-20 Windows 10 VMs, I need high amounts of RAM for that. It helps to have more cores to keep the system stable while running many VMs, so I can still use the PC in the background while running machines. And it wouldn't beat the Xeon in multi-threaded rendering things, necessarily?

Also, this loop is only a 240 radiator and a single 120mm radiator. That's going to cool 2 1080s. The Xeon I have is fairly low in power usage (85W TDP) compared to a much more hotter card like the 6900k which is coming out, rumored to have 8 cores (which will perform decent for VMs and games), but much more heat, which I don't think my loop can handle, with 140W TDP (source: http://wccftech.com/intel-broadwell-e-core-i7-6950x-6900k6850k-6800k-listed/).

 

Would the xeon bottleneck games with the 1080 in SLI?

If I changed the CPU to the 6900k, would my watercooling loop be able to handle the i7 and 2 1080s? I think the i7 is too hot, so I feel like I have not much of a choice to go with the cooler card, the Xeon.

[mikat]

7 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

As the post says, I will be using this rig for virtual machines. I run about 10-20 Windows 10 VMs, I need high amounts of RAM for that. It helps to have more cores to keep the system stable while running many VMs, so I can still use the PC in the background while running machines. And it wouldn't beat the Xeon in multi-threaded rendering things, necessarily?

i7-5820k = 3.3 Ghz 6 cores = 19.8 Ghz cores (not a real unit but still)

E5-2630 v4 = 2.2 Ghz 10 cores = 22.0 Ghz cores

OC the 5820k to 4.0 Ghz or higher = 24 Ghz cores or more

I think this is a good measurement but it should be better with the broadwell-e i7s because then they will have the same IPC

[Quinquangular]

1 minute ago, mikat said:

i7-5820k = 3.3 Ghz 6 cores = 19.8 Ghz cores (not a real unit but still)

E5-2630 v4 = 2.2 Ghz 10 cores = 22.0 Ghz cores

OC the 5820k to 4.0 Ghz or higher = 24 Ghz cores or more

I think this is a good measurement but it should be better with the broadwell-e i7s because then they will have the same IPC

I will most likely get the i7 6900k when Broadwell-E comes out tomorrow/June 1st.

But, do you think my watercooling can cool an overclocked 6900k, and two 1080s? I think the i7 is too hot, and the 10 core Xeon is much cooler with 85W TDP?

If you think my 240mm radiator and 120mm radiator is good enough to cool the i7 and 2 1080s, overclocked, then I will switch to the 6900k.

[mikat]

2 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

I will most likely get the i7 6900k when Broadwell-E comes out tomorrow/June 1st.

But, do you think my watercooling can cool an overclocked 6900k, and two 1080s? I think the i7 is too hot, and the 10 core Xeon is much cooler with 85W TDP?

If you think my 240mm radiator and 120mm radiator is good enough to cool the i7 and 2 1080s, overclocked, then I will switch to the 6900k.

would it be possible to put a 240mm radiator at the top?

[Quinquangular]

4 minutes ago, mikat said:

would it be possible to put a 240mm radiator at the top?

No, as the mATX motherboard is right on that area sadly.

[mikat]

3 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

No, as the mATX motherboard is right on that area sadly.

bummer

that case isn't really meant for watercooling by the looks of it, maybe another case or do you really want that case?

[NaLu]

16 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

Would the xeon bottleneck games with the 1080 in SLI?

If I changed the CPU to the 6900k, would my watercooling loop be able to handle the i7 and 2 1080s? I think the i7 is too hot, so I feel like I have not much of a choice to go with the cooler card, the Xeon.

It probably more or less it will.

Since games still like one, powerful core. I mean even if games are multithreaded, most of work still will be on one core. About the rest I agree. 

10 minutes ago, mikat said:

i7-5820k = 3.3 Ghz 6 cores = 19.8 Ghz cores (not a real unit but still)

E5-2630 v4 = 2.2 Ghz 10 cores = 22.0 Ghz cores

OC the 5820k to 4.0 Ghz or higher = 24 Ghz cores or more

I think this is a good measurement but it should be better with the broadwell-e i7s because then they will have the same IPC

What? It is not working that way

 

9 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

I will most likely get the i7 6900k when Broadwell-E comes out tomorrow/June 1st.

But, do you think my watercooling can cool an overclocked 6900k, and two 1080s? I think the i7 is too hot, and the 10 core Xeon is much cooler with 85W TDP?

If you think my 240mm radiator and 120mm radiator is good enough to cool the i7 and 2 1080s, overclocked, then I will switch to the 6900k.

If you do VM the best choice would be to stay with xeon. Reliability, temperatures and low tdp.

Honestly, if you agree to higher temps, or more aggressive fan curve then... maybe. But personally I would not risk.

[Quinquangular]

3 minutes ago, mikat said:

bummer

that case isn't really meant for watercooling by the looks of it, maybe another case or do you really want that case?

Yeah, I need this case - It's pretty small and easy to bring to college.

I think I'll have to stick with the Xeon? The i7 seems too hot.

[NaLu]

10 minutes ago, mikat said:

bummer

that case isn't really meant for watercooling by the looks of it, maybe another case or do you really want that case?

If you cut the case then, it is absolutely no problem. Even 60mm +fans in front of case fits easily  Also I saw some extreme mod where some guy put a 360mm rad... and it almost fit. I think if he cut hole he would completely fit it in case (case is about 37cm long if I remember correctly).

 

There, diagram from top of case:

 

Sadly the diagram don't have right proportions, so bending tubes is not that exaggerate in path from 120mm to 240mm rad. Also see where are holes for cables, that is the way tubes will probably go.

[Quinquangular]

5 minutes ago, NaLu said:

It probably more or less it will.

Since games still like one, powerful core. I mean even if games are multithreaded, most of work still will be on one core. About the rest I agree. 

What? It is not working that way

 

If you do VM the best choice would be to stay with xeon. Reliability, temperatures and low tdp.

Honestly, if you agree to higher temps, or more aggressive fan curve then... maybe. But personally I would not risk.

The total TDP for my Xeon + 2 1080 is 445.

If I used an i7, the total TDP is i7 + 2 1080 is 500.

Again, with a 240mm and 120mm radiator, I don't think it can handle all of this if I overclock the i7 and GPUs?

What are your thoughts? Possible, or stick with the cooler Xeon?

[Quinquangular]

4 minutes ago, NaLu said:

If you cut the case then, it is absolutely no problem. Even 60mm +fans in front of case fits easily  Also I saw some extreme mod where some guy put a 360mm rad... and it almost fit. I think if he cut hole he would completely fit it in case (case is about 37cm long if I remember correctly).

 

There, diagram from top of case:

 

Sadly the diagram don't have right proportions, so bending tubes is not that exaggerate in path from 120mm to 240mm rad. Also see where are holes for cables, that is the way tubes will probably go.

Would it not be more efficient to go from:

Pump -> CPU -> GPU -> GPU #2 -> 120MM -> 240MM -> Back to pump?

The Xeon is not a hot chip, it's only 85 TDP, the main concern is cooling the 2 1080s.

[mikat]

2 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

Would it not be more efficient to go from:

Pump -> CPU -> GPU -> GPU #2 -> 120MM -> 240MM -> Back to pump?

The Xeon is not a hot chip, it's only 85 TDP, the main concern is cooling the 2 1080s.

The order of the watercooling parts doesn't affect the temperatures, just make sure the res is right before the pump

[NaLu]

Theoretically there is a rule: 'one 120mm rad for one component' but... There is question how well it will work with that amount of heat. Fluid can get warm quickly and it can be problem for radiators to give this energy to surrounding.

 

If you want a lot of VM's - Xeon. Only gaming - i7, but another 50 watt of energy can be problem since even now 450 watt is kinda problem...

 

 

[Quinquangular]

1 minute ago, mikat said:

The order of the watercooling parts doesn't affect the temperatures, just make sure the res is right before the pump

The res is a res+pump combo, so it doesn't matter.

I'd still love your advice about the CPU! I gave you the numbers above for the TDP for the Xeon or i7, I hope you can give me some advice on which chip I should use with my loop. Thanks!

1 minute ago, NaLu said:

Theoretically there is a rule: 'one 120mm rad for one component' but... There is question how well it will work with that amount of heat. Fluid can get warm quickly and it can be problem for radiators to give this energy to surrounding.

 

If you want a lot of VM's - Xeon. Only gaming - i7.

 

 

I want to run many VMs, and will run them almost 24/7. BUT, I still want to bring a 4k monitor to college, and game occasionally. I'll probably play some games a few times a week.

(Question, will the 10 core Xeon bottleneck the 1080s in SLI badly? By how many FPS do you think it will if so?)

[NaLu]

5 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

Would it not be more efficient to go from:

Pump -> CPU -> GPU -> GPU #2 -> 120MM -> 240MM -> Back to pump?

The Xeon is not a hot chip, it's only 85 TDP, the main concern is cooling the 2 1080s.

Doesn't matter since fluid temperature affects temps the most. Just like mikat says.

[mikat]

http://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu_benchmark-cinebench_r15_multi_core-8

The E5-2640 v4 is as good as a 5960x assuming it's not overclocked, so yes get an i7 when the broadwell-e cpus come out

 

[Quinquangular]

1 minute ago, NaLu said:

Doesn't matter since fluid temperature affects temps the most. Just like mikat says.

Okay, I'll loop it whatever way looks best hopefully.

And NaLu - I purchased 6 90 degree fittings, and 10 more normal fittings.

(90 degree fittings - https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-af-angled-90-g1-4-black)

(Normal fittings - https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-acf-fitting-10-13mm-black-2)

 

[Quinquangular]

1 minute ago, mikat said:

http://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu_benchmark-cinebench_r15_multi_core-8

The E5-2640 v4 is as good as a 5960x assuming it's not overclocked, so yes get an i7 when the broadwell-e cpus come out

Would you recommend the 8 core 6900k then?

Should I still overclock the i7, or is it too hard on the water cooling rig to handle?

[NaLu]

2 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

The res is a res+pump combo, so it doesn't matter.

I'd still love your advice about the CPU! I gave you the numbers above for the TDP for the Xeon or i7, I hope you can give me some advice on which chip I should use with my loop. Thanks!

I want to run many VMs, and will run them almost 24/7. BUT, I still want to bring a 4k monitor to college, and game occasionally. I'll probably play some games a few times a week.

(Question, will the 10 core Xeon bottleneck the 1080s in SLI badly? By how many FPS do you think it will if so?)

It depends from game type. RTS love CPU while games like FPS will mostly go into GPU area. Overall build should be balanced, powerful GPU, powerful CPU. In your place I would go with Xeon. 

[mikat]

Just now, Quinquangular said:

Would you recommend the 8 core 6900k then?

Should I still overclock the i7, or is it too hard on the water cooling rig to handle?

yes, the OC'd 5960X kicks the E5-2630 v4's ass by a large margin (20-25%)

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/intel-core-i7-5820k-haswell-e-6-core-cpu-review/4/

[Quinquangular]

2 minutes ago, mikat said:

yes, the OC'd 5960X kicks the E5-2630 v4's ass by a large margin (20-25%)

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/intel-core-i7-5820k-haswell-e-6-core-cpu-review/4/

Well, the 5960X is replaced by the 6950X, which is 10 cores, but costs almost $2k. I can't waste that much. (Source: http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/05/29/intel-corporations-broadwell-e-pricing-revealed.aspx)

Would the 6900k still perform well, both for running many Virtual Machines, and gaming as well? The 6900k is supposed to be an 8 core processor.

 

How much do you think this watercooling loop can OC the CPU to? What about the GPUs?

[Quinquangular]

4 minutes ago, NaLu said:

It depends from game type. RTS love CPU while games like FPS will mostly go into GPU area. Overall build should be balanced, powerful GPU, powerful CPU. In your place I would go with Xeon. 

Thanks, I appreciate your advice! I'll look and compare options with what mikat says.

[mikat]

2 minutes ago, Quinquangular said:

Well, the 5960X is replaced by the 6950X, which is 10 cores, but costs almost $2k. I can't waste that much. (Source: http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/05/29/intel-corporations-broadwell-e-pricing-revealed.aspx)

Would the 6900k still perform well, both for running many Virtual Machines, and gaming as well? The 6900k is supposed to be an 8 core processor.

 

How much do you think this watercooling loop can OC the CPU to? What about the GPUs?

the 6900k replaces the 5960x  (it even says it in the article you linked)

the 6950X is just an addition to the lineup

[Quinquangular]

1 minute ago, mikat said:

the 6900k replaces the 5960x

the 6950X is just an addition to the lineup

Okay! I will go with the 6900k - I hope that my loop can handle all of the TDP from the i7 + 2 1080s.

I guess I'll try to OC the 6900k to about 4.0ghz or so, and I will leave the 1080s at stock, or OC them slightly.

[NaLu]

Oh, you want to go with 8 core variant of i7? I thought you was speaking about hard oc'ed 6 core, lol my bad

 

In that case I agree with mikat. Also the heat generated should not rise if you will stick with original voltage since it directly affects the emited energy. What I want to say by that is... overclockibg is possible but probably with narrow margine.

 

Also I think you bought too much 90 degree fittings. 3 would be optional. One for 240 rad, one for 'lowest' gpu and one for cpu (route fron cpu to 120mm rad).Also I think you bought too much 90 degree fittings. 3 would be optimal. One for 240 rad (tube from 120 rad to 240rad), one for 'lowest' gpu and one for cpu (tube path from cpu to 120mm rad).