Sony PXW-FS7 4K video camera

[ALwin]

The Sony PXW-FS7 that my friend ordered for his office has arrived.  What a beauty!!! (see attached photo)  In the next few weeks I will see if I can record some videos for testing it's capabilities.

 

I'm tempted to get this camera for myself... the major downside is it uses XQD memory cards which are expensive and the largest variant is 128GB.  Sony cameras are known for not using more common memory card formats.  My friend ordered 3x 64GB XQD cards, the camera has 2 slots, and internal recording of 4K/UHD resolution at 50p = about 15 30 minutes on 128GB of storage.

 

On the other hand I see the Black Magic Ursa and Ursa Mini (soon to be released) using CFast cards which are dropping in terms of price.  I hope the Ursa Mini is released soon, that's what I have selected to buy for myself.

 

 

Review of the Sony PXW-FS7

[ShadowCaptain]

SNIP

 

beautiful!

 

(also Philip Bloom  :wub: )

 

 

I am hoping that the 4k on the A7rII is going to be good enough for me, that is 100% my next body upgrade (especially as I can get it for about half price)

 

EDIT - not a fan of the full size URSA unless you are running with a crew, its not a great Solo camera

[ALwin]

beautiful!

 

(also Philip Bloom  :wub: )

 

 

I am hoping that the 4k on the A7rII is going to be good enough for me, that is 100% my next body upgrade (especially as I can get it for about half price)

 

I've heard good stuff about it, was reading someone's experiences with the A7rII, but it seems the biggest factor to quality will be the lenses you use.

 

http://petapixel.com/2015/08/24/42-megapixels-of-garbage-an-unconventional-review-of-the-sony-a7r-ii/

 

As for me, I am getting a "video" first camera for a lot of the reasons stated in this video:

 

I need something dedicated primarily for video, with a proper form factor or close to it as possible without needing to rig it up.

 

B) Philip Bloom does some pretty good reviews, he was one of the earliest "DSLR for video" people.  I was also, but I never used a DSLR for professional videos until a few years after the Nikon D90 was released or nearer to the end of the 5DmkII's lifecycle.

[ShadowCaptain]

I've heard good stuff about it, was reading someone's experiences with the A7rII, but it seems the biggest factor to quality will be the lenses you use.

http://petapixel.com/2015/08/24/42-megapixels-of-garbage-an-unconventional-review-of-the-sony-a7r-ii/

As for me, I am getting a "video" first camera for a lot of the reasons stated in this video:

I need something dedicated primarily for video, with a proper form factor or close to it as possible without needing to rig it up.

 

You dont have to link me to Bloom videos, I have seen them all at least 3 times , heck I talk to him on facebook 

 

Yeah with its hi res sensor you need better glass, but still tons of advantages such as its killer AF performance, great ISO and low light, silent shutter, etc etc etc

 

A7rII, Ronin M + small rig = versatile, it can be a full studio rig, it can be run and gun, it can be a portable street shooter - I know Bloom uses the Sony A7s a lot, and now he is doing a lot more with the A7rII

 

Sure if video is your #1  and only Priority then the FS7 is a fantastic camera, hardware buttons give you quick access to settings you need over the more clumsy wheels and dials on a mirrorless/DSLR

 

But hmm its very hard to compare the FS7 and URSA, it really depends what you are looking for, and what features interest you

 

The reason I like the A7rII is you can use a Shogun and just record onto cheap SSDs!!!!

 

EDIT: BTW that video is super out of date, and not all of it applies to some of the new cameras, or there are ways around tons of those issues - for example the Super 35 Crop on the A7rII has no aliasing or moire  since there is no pixel binning/line skipping - it shoots in true 4k, there is a proper sony audio interface with XLR - the shogun has no time limit for recording and records on to SSDs,  you can use any glass including Cine glass, 

 

Only downside, yes it needs pimping out, but arguably that gives you more versatility since that rig can be adapted

 

Sure there can still be specific reasons to get a video specific camera but if budget is your concern as well as flexibility its just a thought

[ALwin]

Yeah I know the video is a bit out of date.  It was made last year.

 

I need most of the stuff to be in one package.

 

If I stay the DSLR route for video, I don't need to get a new body, I will stick to using my Nikon D4 and D800E.

 

PS: If the URSA Mini isn't released by the end of November I am going to risk it and get the FS7 for myself too.  Unless Sony decides to release something lower than the FS7 (like when they released the FS100 and FS700) to compete with Black Magic.

[ShadowCaptain]

Yeah I know the video is a bit out of date.  It was made last year.

 

I need most of the stuff to be in one package.

 

If I stay the DSLR route for video, I don't need to get a new body, I will stick to using my Nikon D4 and D800E.

 

PS: If the URSA Mini isn't released by the end of November I am going to risk it and get the FS7 for myself too.  Unless Sony decides to release something lower than the FS7 (like when they released the FS100 and FS700) to compete with Black Magic.

It should be out 

 

Yeah you should get an Atomos Ninja for your D800, takes pretty nice files though the video is nowhere near as good as Sony's full frame cameras

[FlamingDefibs]

nearer to the end of the 5DmkII's lifecycle.

 

The 5D Mark II has no end to its lifecycle.

 

    

 

On-topic: Nice pickup for your friend, what is he planning to shoot?

[ShadowCaptain]

The 5D Mark II has no end to its lifecycle.    

 

On-topic: Nice pickup for your friend, what is he planning to shoot?

 

Pretty sure the 5dmk2 is rated for 150k shutter actuations 

[Bsmith]

Pretter sure the 5dmk2 is rated for 150k shutter actuations 

(slightly off-topic)

pssst, forget about the shutter count

http://redrockmicro.blogspot.ca/2015/06/dslr-insider-on-mad-max-fury-road.html#sthash.BPGCCbAA.dpuf

[ShadowCaptain]

(slightly off-topic)

pssst, forget about the shutter count

http://redrockmicro.blogspot.ca/2015/06/dslr-insider-on-mad-max-fury-road.html#sthash.BPGCCbAA.dpuf

 

haha I thought thats what you were alluding too

 

Yeah its amazing how the 5dmk2 is used, pretty much only because it can be hacked

 

Also it says they filmed that part in 2012... and that they might not have used it if the movie was shot today

[ALwin]

Regarding the 5DmkII, I meant when Canon decided to stop selling them and released the 5DmkIII.  I bought a 5DmkII nearly 2 years after it's release and used it for over a year, mainly filming.  Then I sold it and got the D800E when it came out.

 

I already own an Atomos Ninja mk I, I bought it a few weeks before they announced the mk II, so I missed out on all the new features like focus peaking and such.  Luckily I have my SmallHD DP4 field monitor.

 

He works for the UN, so I guess he will go around filming UN stuff.  He didn't pay for it, it was paid for by the department he works for.  I am looking for a camera for my own freelance work.

 

Black Magic hasn't yet released the Ursa Mini to those who pre-ordered it. B&H still marks it as not available.

 

I need to correct myself, if BM doesn't start making the URSA mini available by the end of November I will look at the bigger URSA first, then the FS7.  Though I prefer the smaller size of the URSA mini and the FS7, the bigger URSA is cheaper than the FS7.  80% of the time I am using a tripod anyway.  Mainly because XQD cards are fking expensive and I don't see their price dropping as fast as CFast cards.

[ALwin]

haha I thought thats what you were alluding too

 

Yeah its amazing how the 5dmk2 is used, pretty much only because it can be hacked

 

Also it says they filmed that part in 2012... and that they might not have used it if the movie was shot today

 

The 5DmkII was the landmark DSLR for film makers.  If Canon hadn't produced this camera I'm not sure if people would use DSLR's for video production these days.  But photography wise it was worse than the Nikon D700 in low light high ISO conditions.  It suffered from banded pattern noise.

 

Anyone with a 5DmkIII or a Canon newer than the 5DmkII can tell me what the pattern of the noise looks like when shooting with ISO 3200+?

[Bsmith]

haha I thought thats what you were alluding too

 

Yeah its amazing how the 5dmk2 is used, pretty much only because it can be hacked

 

Also it says they filmed that part in 2012... and that they might not have used it if the movie was shot today

 

yeah, true though it's amazing how technology can out live it's expectations.

 

Regarding the 5DmkII, I meant when Canon decided to stop selling them and released the 5DmkIII.  I bought a 5DmkII nearly 2 years after it's release and used it for over a year, mainly filming.  Then I sold it and got the D800E when it came out.

 

I already own an Atomos Ninja mk I, I bought it a few weeks before they announced the mk II, so I missed out on all the new features like focus peaking and such.  Luckily I have my SmallHD DP4 field monitor.

 

He works for the UN, so I guess he will go around filming UN stuff.  He didn't pay for it, it was paid for by the department he works for.  I am looking for a camera for my own freelance work.

 

Black Magic hasn't yet released the Ursa Mini to those who pre-ordered it. B&H still marks it as not available.

 

If the Cfast price point isn't a problem for you I would "try" to patentily wait out for black magiv to release the goodies.

If not then the sony PXW-FS7 might not be such a bad choice I guess, altough @ShadowCaptain is a better source for that, since he has more experience with dedicated video cams then me(i don't even get to use my DSLR as much I would like lately)

[Bsmith]

-snip-

Anyone with a 5DmkIII or a Canon newer than the 5DmkII can tell me what the pattern of the noise looks like when shooting with ISO 3200+?

 

ISO 6400 on my 1200D looks pretty terrible IMO, example below.

 

IMG info:

ISO 6400

F/22

3sec exposure

lens: canon 50mm F/1.8 STM

20mb+RAW downscaled to 1.39mb JPEG file

[ALwin]

At the low end of any DSLR brand, high ISO noise will always be terrible.  Especially at 6400.  I just went back to my archive and opened up a photo taken with a 5DmkII and one taken with a D800E.

 

100% crop, and both photos were taken at ISO 200, notice the noise pattern on the 5DmkII

 

5DmkII file

 

D800E image

 

The Nikon looks smoother.

[Bsmith]

At the low end of any DSLR brand, high ISO noise will always be terrible.  Especially at 6400.  I just went back to my archive and opened up a photo taken with a 5DmkII and one taken with a D800E.

 

100% crop, and both photos were taken at ISO 200, notice the noise pattern on the 5DmkII

 

5DmkII file

20100522-IMG_0001.jpg

 

D800E image

_AL90028.jpg

 

The Nikon looks smoother.

 

that's something that hasn't changed much then.

 

nikon > canon when it's on ISO.

 

altough Sony is ISO king this moment with their backlight sensor magic.

[ShadowCaptain]

SNIPr

 

Yep dont forget the Nikon sensor is made by Sony, the kings of sensor tech

 

The 5dMK3  and D800E are very much for different tasks, the 5dmk3 is arguably a better field camera, lighter, more cross type focus points, better display, faster burst rate, less shutter lag, more focus points

 

the D800 is a better studio camera, lower noise, better dynamic range, higher resolution, better colour depth 

 

the 5d has better video options, and also, has magic lantern

 

HOWEVER one of the main reason they use 5ds in Holywood, is that Arri, Red and Blackmagic cameras come in EF mount, so they can share lenses with their cinema cameras - also not forgetting the C100 and C500 canon cine cameras

[ALwin]

Yep dont forget the Nikon sensor is made by Sony, the kings of sensor tech

 

The 5dMK3  and D800E are very much for different tasks, the 5dmk3 is arguably a better field camera, lighter, more cross type focus points, better display, faster burst rate, less shutter lag, more focus points

 

the D800 is a better studio camera, lower noise, better dynamic range, higher resolution, better colour depth 

 

the 5d has better video options, and also, has magic lantern

 

HOWEVER one of the main reason they use 5ds in Holywood, is that Arri, Red and Blackmagic cameras come in EF mount, so they can share lenses with their cinema cameras - also not forgetting the C100 and C500 canon cine cameras

 

That depends on how you define field camera... I find that apart from the slow continuous mode the D8xx series of cameras from Nikon are very versatile.  But then again, each to their own I guess, I also use a Nikon D4.

 

As for Sony producing sensors for Nikon, I believe the ones used in the Nikon bodies are designed by Nikon and Sony only produces them to the specifications given.

 

Nikon is still pretty much the top in terms of sensor ratings.

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings

[ShadowCaptain]

That depends on how you define field camera... I find that apart from the slow continuous mode the D8xx series of cameras from Nikon are very versatile.  But then again, each to their own I guess, I also use a Nikon D4.

 

As for Sony producing sensors for Nikon, I believe the ones used in the Nikon bodies are designed by Nikon and Sony only produces them to the specifications given.

 

Nikon is still pretty much the top in terms of sensor ratings.

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings

 

Sure, the d800 is versatile, the other person I shoot with uses one, I have used it for many hours too, doing photos and video - I am not knocking it

 

As I say, the main reason holywood use the 5d is because they already use EF glass for many cameras (when not using PL ofc)

 

Sure, but you can see sony pretty much up there with them, and the fact they are in a body 1/2 the size and weight, using smaller glass, and the fact Sony do not even have lossless RAW shows how well they are

 

I mean my lowly A7 beats the D4 according to DXO mark, and it costs like 1/4 the price

 

it bodes well for sony cameras, like the A7, FS7, A99 etc - they are great, and are really showing up Canon and Nikon with their forward thinking

 

 

I cant WAIT to see how the A7rII stacks up

[ALwin]

Yeah I know and agree about the EF mount, Canon in this regard isn't as closed minded as Nikon.

 

I'm glad to see Sony has improved quite a lot in recent years. My first DSLR was a Sony A350... a month later I replaced it with the Nikon D90 and sold the Sony to a friend.

 

EDIT: The sad thing is Nikon lenses are designed to work with a long flange distance, which should make them usable on any other camera body with an adapter.  If only Nikon made the specifications of their electronic connections a bit more open I can see a lot of potential for Nikon glass.

[ShadowCaptain]

Yeah I know and agree about the EF mount, Canon in this regard isn't as closed minded as Nikon.

 

I'm glad to see Sony has improved quite a lot in recent years. My first DSLR was a Sony A350... a month later I replaced it with the Nikon D90 and sold the Sony to a friend.

 

EDIT: The sad thing is Nikon lenses are designed to work with a long flange distance, which should make them usable on any other camera body with an adapter.  If only Nikon made the specifications of their electronic connections a bit more open I can see a lot of potential for Nikon glass.

 

there is a Nikon adapter with AF coming out for E Mount - so you can use your nikon glass on an A7, FS7, etc etc

 

my friend is on the fence swapping his D800 for the A7rII - he has found a flash unit the Nissin Di700.. hes just concerned about glass so this might make him switch

 

http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/06/19/worlds-first-nikon-to-sony-e-mount-adaptor-with-fill-auto-focus-capabilities/

[ALwin]

there is a Nikon adapter with AF coming out for E Mount - so you can use your nikon glass on an A7, FS7, etc etc

 

my friend is on the fence swapping his D800 for the A7rII - he has found a flash unit the Nissin Di700.. hes just concerned about glass so this might make him switch

 

http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/06/19/worlds-first-nikon-to-sony-e-mount-adaptor-with-fill-auto-focus-capabilities/

 

I guess it would work in this case as the flange distance for the E mount is a lot shorter, more room for electronics to translate the signals between the two different systems.

[ShadowCaptain]

I guess it would work in this case as the flange distance for the E mount is a lot shorter, more room for electronics to translate the signals between the two different systems.

 

yeah E mount I believe has the shortest flange of any camera, so you can literally use anything even Leica M glass

[Dredgy]

Yeah I know the video is a bit out of date.  It was made last year.

 

I need most of the stuff to be in one package.

 

If I stay the DSLR route for video, I don't need to get a new body, I will stick to using my Nikon D4 and D800E.

 

PS: If the URSA Mini isn't released by the end of November I am going to risk it and get the FS7 for myself too.  Unless Sony decides to release something lower than the FS7 (like when they released the FS100 and FS700) to compete with Black Magic.

 

 

I have an URSA and it's a pretty great camera, but if you go that route get it with the 4.6K sensor because God the 4K is not a lowlight sensor. Even in normal room lighting I have trouble.

 

The mini never appealed to me, since the main appeal of the URSA to me is that it has everything built in so their's no rigging up and it really is ergonomic to use. (The audio monitors are great if you're standing wayy across a room since it's so easy to discern).

 

And it's portable enough - saves you carrying around a monitor and all that. People always said how big it was, but I don't find it large - it fits comfortably into my backpack and the weight (it is heavy) is fantastic, especially on windy days. I really wouldn't want anything lighter. Is really comfortable on the shoulder as well, but you need a viewfinder of course. 

[ALwin]

snip

 

If I am going the route of the larger URSA with the 4.6K sensor, adding the price of the V or Gold mount batteries and chargers, the memory cards, etc. I think a PXW-FS7 will be slightly cheaper and compact to carry around.

 

The one I will get will probably be either the URSA mini 4K or 4.6K depending on their availability.