My opinion on the 'starter PC' in the guide

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

used

no uesd parts allowed, that's the restriction here.

 

just buy a console really

[The Friendly Elite]

4 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Since you can find 580/480 for $100 used in the US

Can confirm. Just bought mine for 112 USD last week

[The Friendly Elite]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

buy a console really

Ahem...... no

[RonnieOP]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

no uesd parts allowed, that's the restriction here.

 

just buy a console really

Im not talking about buying used parts. Im saying that if you go to sell the 550 its not going to net you even half of what you originally spent on it.

 

Even when talking about all new parts the 550 is a horrible financial choice for a starter pc when your already using an apu. The whole point of the starter pc is to upgrade it down the road. 

[amdorintel]

5 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

The whole point of the starter pc is to upgrade it down the road. 

you got it!

 

i say spend money on a good mobo, but cheap out on other things, depending on the money the wifey is allowing you to spend, or the limit on the cc. get one stick of 8gb then later get the same stick of 8gb. get a igpu cpu then later get a good gpu card when you get the better cpu. Get a 500GB 7200 HDD then later buy a 1TB + 250-500GB SSD, depending on storage needs.

 

 

 

[kaiju_wars]

11 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

It wont out of the box for sure, that's what I'm talking about

 

Besides, it costs too much over the 2200G

It's not even a $20 difference.  Plus with a low budget build like $300, it's about as much performance as you can squeeze out.

Zen+ typically has better stock clocks, and get a little higher overclocks than the 2200G.  Also if someone doesn't want to overclock, the 3200G has better stock clocks on the CPU and GPU side.

 

Plus the board isn't a bad board.  It might need a BIOS update, it might have been updated already from factory or in store.  But even if it's not, AMD will again, provide a free APU (granted that you have to send back) to do the BIOS update.  

Plus it leaves you with two extra ram slots to upgrade ram without having to discard any later.

 

I like the 2200G, I own one.  But for this price segment, it's about squeezing out as much performance as you can for the money.  It's even within the $300 budget.  

[Jurrunio]

46 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

It's not even a $20 difference.  Plus with a low budget build like $300, it's about as much performance as you can squeeze out.

Nope, that doesn't come before getting a good platform to build up with. Otherwise you're just adding upgrade costs in the future.

 

46 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

Zen+ typically has better stock clocks, and get a little higher overclocks than the 2200G.  Also if someone doesn't want to overclock, the 3200G has better stock clocks on the CPU and GPU side.

 

Plus the board isn't a bad board.  It might need a BIOS update, it might have been updated already from factory or in store.  But even if it's not, AMD will again, provide a free APU (granted that you have to send back) to do the BIOS update.  

That VRM heatsink is tragic, it will bite back when the CPU gets upgraded.

[HumdrumPenguin]

On 12/19/2019 at 7:47 AM, GoldenLag said:

bad mobo, has bad QC and might not support the CPU out of the box. leading to you having to pay extra to ship a boot kit. 

 

for 300$ that is what you want to look at. 

 

and prefereably you want to dip into used market. prebuild + good PSU + possible ram increase to 8GB or 240GB SSD + something like a HD 7850 as a GPU is a good system for about 250$

My reasoning was about spending just enough on what would run my cpu and gpu, so I could invest higher on them (or more ram if 8gb wasn’t added yet). I think that a $300 machine would be so limited that is not worth upgrading anything aside from going with an ssd later on. I, however, did not consider used parts

[RonnieOP]

13 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

Nope, that doesn't come before getting a good platform to build up with. Otherwise you're just adding upgrade costs in the future.

 

That VRM heatsink is tragic, it will bite back when the CPU gets upgraded.

Ive got an hp slimline desktop with a oem b550 and a 3700x.

 

I doubt that board is worse then the hp one and its having no issues with the 3700x.

[Jurrunio]

2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Ive got an hp slimline desktop with a oem b550 and a 3700x.

 

I doubt that board is worse then the hp one and its having no issues with the 3700x.

Do you know what exactly is powering the CPU though? Also the power settings?

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

Do you know what exactly is powering the CPU though? Also the power settings?

What do you mean by whats powering the cpu?

[Jurrunio]

10 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

What do you mean by whats powering the cpu?

The VRM setup, and heatsink mass and design.

[RonnieOP]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

The VRM setup, and heatsink mass and design.

its an oem HP. I doubt they are using any crazy vrm setup.

 

The heatsink is the most generic looking heatsink that you can imagine. Looks like an knockoff intel heatsink.

 

 

[Jurrunio]

13 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

its an oem HP. I doubt they are using any crazy vrm setup.

 

The heatsink is the most generic looking heatsink that you can imagine. Looks like an knockoff intel heatsink.

 

 

VRM heatsink, not CPU hestsink. Downdraft coolers can improve VRM temps though

[RonnieOP]

30 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

VRM heatsink, not CPU hestsink. Downdraft coolers can improve VRM temps though

Its at work so i cant actually open it up and see.

 

HP Pavilion TP01-0066 is the model of the desktop.

 

Like I said I highly doubt the Asrock board mentioned will be worse then the oem hp one thats in this,

 

Hell ive got probably the worse x470 board they made (GB auros x470) and it handles a 3700x just fine.

[Jurrunio]

6 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Its at work so i cant actually open it up and see.

 

HP Pavilion TP01-0066 is the model of the desktop.

 

Like I said I highly doubt the Asrock board mentioned will be worse then the oem hp one thats in this,

 

Hell ive got probably the worse x470 board they made (GB auros x470) and it handles a 3700x just fine.

The X470 Ultra gaming / Gaming 5 can boarder line handle the 3700x at stock, it has more than twice the VRM as the Asrock B450 HDV R4.0

[RonnieOP]

15 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

The X470 Ultra gaming / Gaming 5 can boarder line handle the 3700x at stock, it has more than twice the VRM as the Asrock B450 HDV R4.0

Point is. If an oem hp generic mobo can handle a 3700x i highly doubt the asrock couldnt. 

 

I mean theres videos of people using a 3900x on a320. So a 3700x should be fine on a b450 even a crappy one.

 

Most people arent overclocking zen 2 anyways. 

[Jurrunio]

2 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

I mean theres videos of people using a 3900x on a320

and I can find zero info on their mosfet temperature, nor even a Cinebench result

 

2 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

So a 3700x should be fine on a b450 even a crappy one.

We're talking 4 Sinopower SM4336 low side mosfets (high sides are SM4337, their heat output alone handling a CPU drawing 80A at 1.2V (I know 3700x draws about 100A at 1.4V 4.3GHz, so I pull down the current as voltage and frequency decreases) is already nearly 20W. At 100A 1.4V it will do at least 25W if not 28W (not sure how Rdson scales) btw. In comparison, the Pro4's setup will only give out about 21W at 1.4V 100A, and it has 50% more area and an actual heatsink to help with heat dissipation.

 

That's a stupid idea.

[amdorintel]

you'd be better off buying a used 4th gen intel refurbished computer for less money then buying a rock bottom ryzen build.

then saving your money in a few yrs to buy a half decent ryzen build when ryzen 4000 comes out, then the older ryzen cpu's and mobos will be even more cheaper.

 

[Car712]

On 12/21/2019 at 2:10 PM, Jurrunio said:

and I can find zero info on their mosfet temperature, nor even a Cinebench result

 

We're talking 4 Sinopower SM4336 low side mosfets (high sides are SM4337, their heat output alone handling a CPU drawing 80A at 1.2V (I know 3700x draws about 100A at 1.4V 4.3GHz, so I pull down the current as voltage and frequency decreases) is already nearly 20W. At 100A 1.4V it will do at least 25W if not 28W (not sure how Rdson scales) btw. In comparison, the Pro4's setup will only give out about 21W at 1.4V 100A, and it has 50% more area and an actual heatsink to help with heat dissipation.

 

That's a stupid idea.

I mean, as for a 3700X, I have no idea, but when I first started out building my PC I used a super cheap board at the time, the ASRock A320M-HDV (around $40-50 at the time), it worked great with my 2200G at the time, and it also worked perfectly fine with the 2600X and RX 480 8GB (used) that I upgraded to later. Amazing board.

 

I'm now using a Gigabyte B450 AORUS M, I can honestly say that the ASRock board was far better (EDIT: except for the fact that the Gigabyte board has better specs) after using the Gigabyte board for about half a year now, with the same 2600X, and realizing that the BIOS updates constantly break things (which is why I’m “stuck” on an older firmware at the moment), I have had many other nonstop minor issues with this board as well, Gigabyte is just awful. The ASRock board is still going strong by the way, I've been using it in another PC that I cobbled together with parts that I upgraded from and didn't sell.

[Jurrunio]

31 minutes ago, Car712 said:

but when I first started out building my PC I used a super cheap board at the time, the ASRock A320M-HDV (around $40-50 at the time), it worked great with my 2200G at the time, and it also worked perfectly fine with the 2600X and RX 480 8GB (used) that I upgraded to later. Amazing board.

Talking about living dangerously. Probably fine with the 2200G at stock (SOC VRM's gonna blow first), but definitely not with the 2600X. btw 2600X's power draw is only a little lower than the 3700X so the math before still applies.

 

Do not claim something is "amazing" when you dont know everything that happens. Cheaper Asrock boards for example do not have working VRM thermal throttling, so your board could totally be running its mosfets outside spec temperature.

If even a X470 board can do this, imagine the A320 board you have. How likely will it not do this?

 

31 minutes ago, Car712 said:

I'm now using a Gigabyte B450 AORUS M, I can honestly say that the ASRock board was far better after using the Gigabyte board for about half a year now, with the same 2600X, and realizing that the BIOS updates constantly break things (which is why I’m “stuck” on an older firmware at the moment), I have had many other nonstop minor issues with this board as well, Gigabyte is just awful. The ASRock board is still going strong by the way, I've been using it in another PC that I cobbled together with parts that I upgraded from and didn't sell.

Yep, you are totally unaware that you don't see everything.

[Car712]

4 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Talking about living dangerously. Probably fine with the 2200G at stock (SOC VRM's gonna blow first), but definitely not with the 2600X. btw 2600X's power draw is only a little lower than the 3700X so the math before still applies.

 

Do not claim something is "amazing" when you dont know everything that happens. Cheaper Asrock boards for example do not have working VRM thermal throttling, so your board could totally be running its mosfets outside spec temperature.

If even a X470 board can do this, imagine the A320 board you have. How likely will it not do this?

 

Yep, you are totally unaware that you don't see everything.

Very interesting, I was just going off what I had experienced, I’m by no way any expert on boards lol.