Marvel Comics Star Wars accused of ripping off fan models and entirely copying fan images

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Anomnomnomaly said:

Fair use for non profit is the only legally defensible answer to that argument... if they got paid for a comic dept owned by disney for a piece of work that they copied for personal use that's owned by disney... Then they'd have grounds for being sued themselves.

There is no fair use for non-profit.

Just now, Anomnomnomaly said:

A simple acknowledgement that the scene was inspired by said person is all that could be done here.

That would have been better than what they did, yes.

Just now, Anomnomnomaly said:

Also.. regarding your comments about anyone who would dare to say anything about their dislike of what has been done to the SW franchise... calling people out for 'toxic shit'  is just as disrespectful as what you accuse them off... So you might also want to 'knock that shit off' as you put it  

No thanks - I came here to discuss a very specific issue, and the reason I put the disclaimer in place is exactly this reason - now the thread has been derailed as to whether Disney is "woke" or not.

 

I have no problem with people who don't like the new Canon. I do have a problem with those that are toxic about it, such as saying people who still like the new canon are mentally unwell or aren't "real fans" (no true Scotsman fallacy). That shit has no place here.

[Crunchy Dragon]

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[SpaceGhostC2C]

 

7 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

Why? 

 

Disney ruined a perfectly good franchise (and not just this one) to push their woke agenda.  Even Mark Hamill himself repeatedly slammed Disney for what they did to Star Wars. 

People who like that shitshow don't need respect, they need help.

 

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I made it into a template so it can be used more broadly across topics, no tjust this one

 

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21 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

So what do you guys think? This isn't the first accusation of Marvel Comic illustrators for Star Wars ripping off other people's models. On one hand: If you make a model of a copyrighted object, especially without permission, then legally, I think that Disney and Marvel Comics probably have the right to use that design, since you don't own the original design anyway and your work is technically an IP violation to begin with. But from a moral perspective, it's clearly wrong.

 

At the very least, if they want to use models created by fans, they should seek permission to do so (if not actually pay them for the design).

I see three issues, or two and a half. First, are the fans' breaking copyright (in that they would have to comply with cease and desist letters, should one arrive), or are they doing enough to stay on the safe side? Sort of second: If they are infringing on copyright, does it mean that someone licensing the IP from Disney can grab their  work and use it? Let's say there is a merchandising agreement between Disney and McDonald's for the upcoming movie, can McDonald's just grab fan art and use it in its promotional products? And if not, is the comic making enough transformations to the fans' originals to be also on the safe side? Lastly, regardless of the legal status of things: what's our stance on the work ethics of making a comic by processing others' images? Is it just lazy? Is it the same as Warhol colouring Marylin's picture? is it laziness that can hide behind the existence of photo-based art?  

 

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

 

I made it into a template so it can be used more broadly across topics, no tjust this one

I almost wish this was a separate post so I could react to it twice

 

Good response though.

2 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I see three issues, or two and a half. First, are the fans' breaking copyright (in that they would have to comply with cease and desist letters, should one arrive), or are they doing enough to stay on the safe side?

In the case of people like the guy who did the 3D printed models? The first. He didn't have permission to create derivative works from LucasFilm, therefore all of his products were by default in violation of copyright.

2 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Sort of second: If they are infringing on copyright, does it mean that someone licensing the IP from Disney can grab their  work and use it?

No - at least, not inherently. It would depend on the nature of the specific licensing agreement, and how wide ranging it is.

2 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Let's say there is a merchandising agreement between Disney and McDonald's for the upcoming movie, can McDonald's just grab fan art and use it in its promotional products?

See above, it would depend on the nature of the agreement between Disney and McDonald's. If Disney gives them a blank cheque? Then yes, arguably they could just grab fan art (even if it's scummy on an ethical level).

2 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

And if not, is the comic making enough transformations to the fans' originals to be also on the safe side?

Even if it were transforming it, that's not enough to be considered "fair use", so that's not really relevant one way or another.

2 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Lastly, regardless of the legal status of things: what's our stance on the work ethics of making a comic by processing others' images? Is it just lazy? Is it the same as Warhol colouring Marylin's picture? is it laziness that can hide behind the existence of photo-based art?  

It's a complicated subject. I don't inherently have a problem with them processing other images as the basis for their comic art - as long as they have permission to do so.

 

Eg: Bob from LucasFilm makes a 3D render of a fleet of ships for a Galaxies Edge ride. LucasFilm owns that, and can do whatever they want with it. They license out comics to Marvel, and say "You can use any properties we own" - Jim from Marvel can now use Bob's render as a sketch or template for a scene, if he wants.

 

It is lazy, but it depends. Sometimes you want things to match that closely. For example:

If they made a TLJ comic, you might want the comic artist to use screenshots from the movie as templates.

 

But in this case, it's lazy, because they are taking scenes from other "battles" (canonically) and inserting them into a new situation where it logically doesn't make sense.

[amdorintel]

yea they can afford to pay off the fan of star wars model maker, after they drag it out in court to see how long the fan lasts.

 

 

[Bombastinator]

18 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I would go even farther - pay them for their work. Marvel doesn't even have to pay them much, since they're essentially just paying for the designs and scenes, and not for the final product. But get consent and pay them.

 

Or, you know, put enough actual resources into the comics so that the illustrators have time to create their own designs (or rip them off from official sources, but even that's just lazy, unless they're reproducing that exact scene in-canon).

That would be legally suicidal.  And not just for Disney but for all fandom.  Everyone they DIDDNT do that for they would have to sue for infringement.  It’s a massive can of worms.

[Bombastinator]

15 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I almost wish this was a separate post so I could react to it twice

 

Good response though.

In the case of people like the guy who did the 3D printed models? The first. He didn't have permission to create derivative works from LucasFilm, therefore all of his products were by default in violation of copyright. [/QUOTE] bingo

{snip}...

It's a complicated subject. I don't inherently have a problem with them processing other images as the basis for their comic art - as long as they have permission to do so.

owner gives permissions.  They’re the owner so they give themselves permission by default.  The problem with fan art is if it’s fan art of copywrited work the fan may make the art but doesn’t own the work.  It’s effectively a donation.

 

Eg: Bob from LucasFilm makes a 3D render of a fleet of ships for a Galaxies Edge ride. LucasFilm owns that, and can do whatever they want with it. They license out comics to Marvel, and say "You can use any properties we own" - Jim from Marvel can now use Bob's render as a sketch or template for a scene, if he wants.

 

It is lazy, but it depends. Sometimes you want things to match that closely. For example:

If they made a TLJ comic, you might want the comic artist to use screenshots from the movie as templates.

 

But in this case, it's lazy, because they are taking scenes from other "battles" (canonically) and inserting them into a new situation where it logically doesn't make sense.

 

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

That would be legally suicidal.  And not just for Disney but for all fandom.  Everyone they DIDDNT do that for they would have to sue for infringement.  It’s a massive can of worms.

Not really. Unlike Trademark, you can pick and choose your legal battles for IP copyright infringement. 
 

Would it be a PR disaster? Yes. But not a legal one. 

[Sauron]

20 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I made it into a template so it can be used more broadly across topics, no tjust this one

I love it