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GMart84

Radiator Fan Question

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hello all,

 

I have been slowly upgrading the water cooling system in my rig and have come to the radiator fans.  I have come to the realization that I am going to need to remove the Corsair LL fans from my build if I want to try and get down to only a push setup on my radiators.  Besides the Corsair MLs, EK Vardar, and Noctua Fans are there any others that I should consider?  I have already used the Corsair MLs for case fans and the side mounted fans in my system, they move a lot of air.

 

Also is it even possible for me to get away with just push fans on my Coolstream 480 XE Radiators?

 

Side note the system with no RGB on looks pretty damn good.

 

System Upgrades So Far:

 

2 x Alphacool Eisbecher Reservoir Tops

2 x Swiftech D5 PWM Pumps

Upgraded the Coolstream PE for the CPU to an XE

Made the soft tubing look better

Added Drain Ports

 

Thanks for any fan advice you can provide.

IMG_0823.thumb.jpg.92bedd3049552859a347008fae60c41d.jpg


BLACK and BLUE Build

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Why change out the LL fans? They have decent static pressure and are adequate for radiator operations. 


PSU Tier List Thread

 

"The Angry Cup o` Joe" v2.0

Ryzen 1800x @ 4.0ghz | Asus Crosshair VI Hero | MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X | Flare X 14-14-14-34 3200mhz 32gb | Full Custom Water Cooling Loop | 1tb Samsung 970 Evo

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Skiiwee29 Currently to get the best cooling I have LL fans on the push side and Arctic F12 PWM fans on the pull side.  I would love to simplify the setup to only have push fans just for wiring purposes.

 

Every time I have to take things apart to upgrade or change something it take quite a bit of time to run wires.

 

Also my temps seem out of whack for the cooling system in place and I am thinking I am not getting good airflow through the rads.  Idle CPU is between 26-30 and full load at 5.2 GHz is running in the 78-80 range.

 

I currently have 23 fans in the case 16 on the rads and 7 mounted on the case for airflow.  So when they all ramp up the thing is quite loud.


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2 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

@Skiiwee29 Currently to get the best cooling I have LL fans on the push side and Arctic F12 PWM fans on the pull side.  I would love to simplify the setup to only have push fans just for wiring purposes.

 

Every time I have to take things apart to upgrade or change something it take quite a bit of time to run wires.

 

Also my temps seem out of whack for the cooling system in place and I am thinking I am not getting good airflow through the rads.  Idle CPU is between 26-30 and full load at 5.2 GHz is running in the 78-80 range.

 

I currently have 23 fans in the case 16 on the rads and 7 mounted on the case for airflow.  So when they all ramp up the thing is quite loud.

Well noise to performance, the best out there is Noctua NF-F12s. 


PSU Tier List Thread

 

"The Angry Cup o` Joe" v2.0

Ryzen 1800x @ 4.0ghz | Asus Crosshair VI Hero | MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X | Flare X 14-14-14-34 3200mhz 32gb | Full Custom Water Cooling Loop | 1tb Samsung 970 Evo

Samsung 850 evo 250gb | 2x 3tb Seagate Drive | Phantex Enthoo Evolv | Custom front cover from mnpctech.com | Custom Top cover from Modmymods.com

EVGA G2 750w PSU | 3x Corsair ML140 Pro White LED case fans | 3x Corsair ML120 Pro White LED Case Fans | Cablemod 30cm RGB LED strip

 

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7 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Well noise to performance, the best out there is Noctua NF-F12s. 

Even among Noctua, the NF-A12x25 is better

 

45 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

Besides the Corsair MLs, EK Vardar, and Noctua Fans are there any others that I should consider?  

Nidec Servo/Scythe Gentle Typhoon, Phanteks MP and Fractal HP series imo


Studying abroad, ditched the crappy laptop for a do-all laptop double. Dried factory CPU paste, long memory timings, cooler cools the inductors but not the mosfets and an inch of unused internal space on both left and right

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV system agent undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+100/+500, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: +4GB DDR4-2666 19-19-19-43 2T Storage: 128GB Toshiba NVMe SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172) Monitor: 1080p 120Hz IPS G-sync

 

The best thing to do is reading the clock speed that doesnt end in a pair of zeros. Software voltage readings are wrong if your motherboard's not a high end model

CPU: i7-2600K 4493MHz (multiplier: 43x) 1.35V (software) --> 1.4V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 104.5MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 10-11-11-30 2T 2133MHz, custom: 10-11-10-30 1T 2229MHz) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (OC'd 150Hz) TN Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Skiiwee29 @Jurrunio

 

Thank you for your suggestions I am looking at the Noctua's right now, the A12x25 gets roughly 60 CFM and the F12 a little lower, both are rated to be extremely quiet.  Looking at it compared to the ML's the ML's provide more airflow but at a much higher dB level.  I always forget is it static pressure or airflow that I need for the radiator?

 

The Gentle Typhoons are around the same level as the F12s and Phanteks are in the range of my existing Arctic fans, albeit at a much higher quality.  The Fractal fans look nice and perform slightly better than the A12x25, specs wise at least, but are loud again.

 

@Ttnuagmada

 

The High Speed versions of those Silent Wing 3's have rather impressive specs only 28.6 dB at full throttle and moving massive amounts of air.  I may have to get a couple just to see how good they are.


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Daughter's First Build

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26 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

@Skiiwee29 @Jurrunio

 

Thank you for your suggestions I am looking at the Noctua's right now, the A12x25 gets roughly 60 CFM and the F12 a little lower, both are rated to be extremely quiet.  Looking at it compared to the ML's the ML's provide more airflow but at a much higher dB level.  I always forget is it static pressure or airflow that I need for the radiator?

 

The Gentle Typhoons are around the same level as the F12s and Phanteks are in the range of my existing Arctic fans, albeit at a much higher quality.  The Fractal fans look nice and perform slightly better than the A12x25, specs wise at least, but are loud again.

 

@Ttnuagmada

 

The High Speed versions of those Silent Wing 3's have rather impressive specs only 28.6 dB at full throttle and moving massive amounts of air.  I may have to get a couple just to see how good they are.

Static Pressure is best for the radiators. 


PSU Tier List Thread

 

"The Angry Cup o` Joe" v2.0

Ryzen 1800x @ 4.0ghz | Asus Crosshair VI Hero | MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X | Flare X 14-14-14-34 3200mhz 32gb | Full Custom Water Cooling Loop | 1tb Samsung 970 Evo

Samsung 850 evo 250gb | 2x 3tb Seagate Drive | Phantex Enthoo Evolv | Custom front cover from mnpctech.com | Custom Top cover from Modmymods.com

EVGA G2 750w PSU | 3x Corsair ML140 Pro White LED case fans | 3x Corsair ML120 Pro White LED Case Fans | Cablemod 30cm RGB LED strip

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Skiiwee29 @Blai5e Thank you for the answer!

 

I am now looking into something that is interesting to me on this. The White Corsair LL Fans are drastically better performing than the Black.

 

Black Corsair LL

600-1500 RPM

43.25 CFM

24.8 dBA

1.61 mmH2O

 

White Corsair LL

Up to 2200 RPM

63 CFM

36 dBA

3.00 mmH2O

 

@Corsair Nick What else changed between the black and white LL fans that enables this substantially better performance?  Why were the improvements not moved over to the Black version?  Thank you in advance for potentially answering that question.

 


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i9-9900K - 5.2 Ghz @ 1.305 vCore, 32 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro (@ 3200 Mhz), Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Extreme, 2x EVGA GTX 1080Ti SC Black Edition, Samsung 970 Pro, Samsung 970 EVO, Dual Custom Loop Cooling, Thermaltake Tower 900, AX1200i

 

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The design of the white LL120 fans is no different from the black version.  Only key difference was the increased maximum RPM on the white version. Because the fan was released with the H100i Platinum SE Hydro Cooler, we wanted to maximize the cooling potential of the combo.  LL120 fans can be used with radiators, but if you want the best balance of performance and silence, ML120 fans will be the choice to go with.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Corsair Nick Thank you for the response, I love the look of the LL Fans and am now thinking that I should swap out the Black versions to the White versions just for the increased cooling capacity.  I am aware that the MLs would be a better choice but they just do not produce the same look and the LED versions are not the same in terms of performance.

 

I am thinking that with the increased pressure from jumping from 1.61 mmH2O to 3.00 mm H2O moving to the higher RPM fans will allow me to move on my thick radiators to just a push from the outside using the White LL's while maintaining the look.

 

I can say however that your iCue software pushes the Black LLs way past the 1500 RPM Max at some points they are actually running 1750-1800 for extended periods of time.


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i9-9900K - 5.2 Ghz @ 1.305 vCore, 32 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro (@ 3200 Mhz), Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Extreme, 2x EVGA GTX 1080Ti SC Black Edition, Samsung 970 Pro, Samsung 970 EVO, Dual Custom Loop Cooling, Thermaltake Tower 900, AX1200i

 

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1 hour ago, GMart84 said:

@Corsair Nick Thank you for the response, I love the look of the LL Fans and am now thinking that I should swap out the Black versions to the White versions just for the increased cooling capacity.  I am aware that the MLs would be a better choice but they just do not produce the same look and the LED versions are not the same in terms of performance.

 

I am thinking that with the increased pressure from jumping from 1.61 mmH2O to 3.00 mm H2O moving to the higher RPM fans will allow me to move on my thick radiators to just a push from the outside using the White LL's while maintaining the look.

 

I can say however that your iCue software pushes the Black LLs way past the 1500 RPM Max at some points they are actually running 1750-1800 for extended periods of time.

Need to remember, the static pressure ratings listed is generally the maximum achieved and will be when the fan is at 100% RPM, not at say 30-40% or whatever you have it set to at idle and load levels. 


PSU Tier List Thread

 

"The Angry Cup o` Joe" v2.0

Ryzen 1800x @ 4.0ghz | Asus Crosshair VI Hero | MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X | Flare X 14-14-14-34 3200mhz 32gb | Full Custom Water Cooling Loop | 1tb Samsung 970 Evo

Samsung 850 evo 250gb | 2x 3tb Seagate Drive | Phantex Enthoo Evolv | Custom front cover from mnpctech.com | Custom Top cover from Modmymods.com

EVGA G2 750w PSU | 3x Corsair ML140 Pro White LED case fans | 3x Corsair ML120 Pro White LED Case Fans | Cablemod 30cm RGB LED strip

 

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12 hours ago, GMart84 said:

 

@Ttnuagmada

 

The High Speed versions of those Silent Wing 3's have rather impressive specs only 28.6 dB at full throttle and moving massive amounts of air.  I may have to get a couple just to see how good they are.

You will not be disappointed. They are top notch. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Skiiwee29 You are absolutely correct, thank you for the reminder.  I wonder if there is a document some where that shows the curves on some of these fans.  I did read a review that was on techpowerup that many radiators can still work with lower pressure fans but just not quite as well.

 

If I say target the best performing fan at 50% PWM I think those beQuiet Silent Wings may win out, but I cannot locate decent data on how much of the flow and pressure are there at that level for any of the options I am looking at.


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Daughter's First Build

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49 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

@Skiiwee29 You are absolutely correct, thank you for the reminder.  I wonder if there is a document some where that shows the curves on some of these fans.  I did read a review that was on techpowerup that many radiators can still work with lower pressure fans but just not quite as well.

 

If I say target the best performing fan at 50% PWM I think those beQuiet Silent Wings may win out, but I cannot locate decent data on how much of the flow and pressure are there at that level for any of the options I am looking at.

 

I can give you some anecdotal evidence on the SW3 performance vs the ML120's. When i was trying to decide which fans to go with for my SMA8 build, i bought a bunch of several types just to see what their real world performance was, and see what they all sounded like, because dB doesn't tell the story. Some fans have a sound signature that you might not like even though they are "quiet".  As far as that goes, EK Vardar F3's and Nidec GT's have a distinct motor/bearing noise that can be heard much above 800 rpm, and i thought they sounded awful even if they are technically "quiet". 

 

Anywho, the ML120's actually performed noticeably worse than the SW3's in terms of Delta T on my EK 360XE cooling a 3770K. I had to run the MLs at 1000 rpm to get the same cooling performance as the SW3's at 800 rpm. The SW3's also had no sound of any kind other than air movement (on the 1400rpm ones at least) even at max speed. The ML's were quiet too, they just performed worse.  Airflow and SP measurements don't tell the whole story apparently. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Ttnuagmada Thank you for the information.  It is going to prove highly useful in how I look at these fans.

 

Here is my test plan, my daughter wants to water cool her PC, and I am going to use that as a way of testing different fans in terms of performance as her H200i Case and only a single rad will be easier to work with.  I am going to use a sound meter that I have to test each fan at 40, 50, 60, 100% PWM and then I will load up the CPU with AIDA 64 and see what happens for each one.  Once I figure out which one gives me the best overall performance I will then purchase my packages of fans for my build.


BLACK and BLUE Build

i9-9900K - 5.2 Ghz @ 1.305 vCore, 32 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro (@ 3200 Mhz), Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Extreme, 2x EVGA GTX 1080Ti SC Black Edition, Samsung 970 Pro, Samsung 970 EVO, Dual Custom Loop Cooling, Thermaltake Tower 900, AX1200i

 

VR Build

i7-8700K - 5.1 Ghz @ 1.36 vCore, 32 GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB (@ 3200 Mhz), Asus Maximus X Hero (Wi Fi ac), EVGA GTX 1080 SC, Toshiba NVME, Custom Loop (CPU Only), Thermaltake Core P5, HX1000i

 

FreeNAS Server Build

Pentium G5400, 8 GB Kingston HyperX Fury (@ 2400 MHz), Asrock H370M-ITX/ac, Intel 320 System SSD, 4x Hitachi 7200K 4 TB HDD, Thermaltake TR2 650W, Cooler Master Master Liquid Lite 120, Bit Fenix Prodigy

 

Daughter's First Build

Core i3-6100, 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX (@ 2133 MHz), Asrock H270M-ITX/ac, XFX RX-580 GTS, 2x Corsair Force LS, PowerSpec 550w, NZXT H200i

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17 hours ago, GMart84 said:

@Corsair Nick

 

I can say however that your iCue software pushes the Black LLs way past the 1500 RPM Max at some points they are actually running 1750-1800 for extended periods of time.

Not uncommon to see.  We state a 10% +/- for RPM variance in our spec which can be accounted for by air flow resistance, etc.

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8 hours ago, GMart84 said:

@Ttnuagmada Thank you for the information.  It is going to prove highly useful in how I look at these fans.

 

Here is my test plan, my daughter wants to water cool her PC, and I am going to use that as a way of testing different fans in terms of performance as her H200i Case and only a single rad will be easier to work with.  I am going to use a sound meter that I have to test each fan at 40, 50, 60, 100% PWM and then I will load up the CPU with AIDA 64 and see what happens for each one.  Once I figure out which one gives me the best overall performance I will then purchase my packages of fans for my build.

Thats similar to what I did, i bought 5 different kinds of fans to test out.  Also keep in mind that dB doesn't tell the whole story. Sound signature is just as important. For example, EK Vardars and NIdec GT's sound really bad once you go above 800-900 rpm even if their dB isn't bad.

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Posted · Original PosterOP

@Corsair Nick @Ttnuagmada

I completed some tests and I could get the Black LLs to spin up to 1825 RPM simply by setting it there in iCue.  They are fairly loud at that point and seem to move much more air but that is not good for the longevity of the fans.

 

I visited my favorite store Micro Center and picked up a White LL and a ML Pro fans, I also ordered a Silent Wings 3, Vardar 2200RPM, and Noctua A12x25.  Testing will happen likely this weekend as I get all the components together for the “build” for my daughter that is really testing for me.

 

Thank you for the advice guys.


BLACK and BLUE Build

i9-9900K - 5.2 Ghz @ 1.305 vCore, 32 GB Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro (@ 3200 Mhz), Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Extreme, 2x EVGA GTX 1080Ti SC Black Edition, Samsung 970 Pro, Samsung 970 EVO, Dual Custom Loop Cooling, Thermaltake Tower 900, AX1200i

 

VR Build

i7-8700K - 5.1 Ghz @ 1.36 vCore, 32 GB G.Skill TridentZ RGB (@ 3200 Mhz), Asus Maximus X Hero (Wi Fi ac), EVGA GTX 1080 SC, Toshiba NVME, Custom Loop (CPU Only), Thermaltake Core P5, HX1000i

 

FreeNAS Server Build

Pentium G5400, 8 GB Kingston HyperX Fury (@ 2400 MHz), Asrock H370M-ITX/ac, Intel 320 System SSD, 4x Hitachi 7200K 4 TB HDD, Thermaltake TR2 650W, Cooler Master Master Liquid Lite 120, Bit Fenix Prodigy

 

Daughter's First Build

Core i3-6100, 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX (@ 2133 MHz), Asrock H270M-ITX/ac, XFX RX-580 GTS, 2x Corsair Force LS, PowerSpec 550w, NZXT H200i

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