Radiator Fan Question

[GMart84]

Hello all,

 

I have been slowly upgrading the water cooling system in my rig and have come to the radiator fans.  I have come to the realization that I am going to need to remove the Corsair LL fans from my build if I want to try and get down to only a push setup on my radiators.  Besides the Corsair MLs, EK Vardar, and Noctua Fans are there any others that I should consider?  I have already used the Corsair MLs for case fans and the side mounted fans in my system, they move a lot of air.

 

Also is it even possible for me to get away with just push fans on my Coolstream 480 XE Radiators?

 

Side note the system with no RGB on looks pretty damn good.

 

System Upgrades So Far:

 

2 x Alphacool Eisbecher Reservoir Tops

2 x Swiftech D5 PWM Pumps

Upgraded the Coolstream PE for the CPU to an XE

Made the soft tubing look better

Added Drain Ports

 

Thanks for any fan advice you can provide.

[Skiiwee29]

Why change out the LL fans? They have decent static pressure and are adequate for radiator operations. 

[GMart84]

@Skiiwee29 Currently to get the best cooling I have LL fans on the push side and Arctic F12 PWM fans on the pull side.  I would love to simplify the setup to only have push fans just for wiring purposes.

 

Every time I have to take things apart to upgrade or change something it take quite a bit of time to run wires.

 

Also my temps seem out of whack for the cooling system in place and I am thinking I am not getting good airflow through the rads.  Idle CPU is between 26-30 and full load at 5.2 GHz is running in the 78-80 range.

 

I currently have 23 fans in the case 16 on the rads and 7 mounted on the case for airflow.  So when they all ramp up the thing is quite loud.

[Skiiwee29]

2 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

@Skiiwee29 Currently to get the best cooling I have LL fans on the push side and Arctic F12 PWM fans on the pull side.  I would love to simplify the setup to only have push fans just for wiring purposes.

 

Every time I have to take things apart to upgrade or change something it take quite a bit of time to run wires.

 

Also my temps seem out of whack for the cooling system in place and I am thinking I am not getting good airflow through the rads.  Idle CPU is between 26-30 and full load at 5.2 GHz is running in the 78-80 range.

 

I currently have 23 fans in the case 16 on the rads and 7 mounted on the case for airflow.  So when they all ramp up the thing is quite loud.

Well noise to performance, the best out there is Noctua NF-F12s. 

[Jurrunio]

7 minutes ago, Skiiwee29 said:

Well noise to performance, the best out there is Noctua NF-F12s. 

Even among Noctua, the NF-A12x25 is better

 

45 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

Besides the Corsair MLs, EK Vardar, and Noctua Fans are there any others that I should consider?  

Nidec Servo/Scythe Gentle Typhoon, Phanteks MP and Fractal HP series imo

[Ttnuagmada]

Be Quiet! Silent Wings 3's all day every day. They are fantastic. 

[GMart84]

@Skiiwee29 @Jurrunio

 

Thank you for your suggestions I am looking at the Noctua's right now, the A12x25 gets roughly 60 CFM and the F12 a little lower, both are rated to be extremely quiet.  Looking at it compared to the ML's the ML's provide more airflow but at a much higher dB level.  I always forget is it static pressure or airflow that I need for the radiator?

 

The Gentle Typhoons are around the same level as the F12s and Phanteks are in the range of my existing Arctic fans, albeit at a much higher quality.  The Fractal fans look nice and perform slightly better than the A12x25, specs wise at least, but are loud again.

 

@Ttnuagmada

 

The High Speed versions of those Silent Wing 3's have rather impressive specs only 28.6 dB at full throttle and moving massive amounts of air.  I may have to get a couple just to see how good they are.

[Skiiwee29]

26 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

@Skiiwee29 @Jurrunio

 

Thank you for your suggestions I am looking at the Noctua's right now, the A12x25 gets roughly 60 CFM and the F12 a little lower, both are rated to be extremely quiet.  Looking at it compared to the ML's the ML's provide more airflow but at a much higher dB level.  I always forget is it static pressure or airflow that I need for the radiator?

 

The Gentle Typhoons are around the same level as the F12s and Phanteks are in the range of my existing Arctic fans, albeit at a much higher quality.  The Fractal fans look nice and perform slightly better than the A12x25, specs wise at least, but are loud again.

 

@Ttnuagmada

 

The High Speed versions of those Silent Wing 3's have rather impressive specs only 28.6 dB at full throttle and moving massive amounts of air.  I may have to get a couple just to see how good they are.

Static Pressure is best for the radiators. 

[Blai5e]

Static pressure for radiator fans - overcome resistance of the radiator.

[GMart84]

@Skiiwee29 @Blai5e Thank you for the answer!

 

I am now looking into something that is interesting to me on this. The White Corsair LL Fans are drastically better performing than the Black.

 

Black Corsair LL

600-1500 RPM

43.25 CFM

24.8 dBA

1.61 mmH2O

 

White Corsair LL

Up to 2200 RPM

63 CFM

36 dBA

3.00 mmH2O

 

@Corsair Nick What else changed between the black and white LL fans that enables this substantially better performance?  Why were the improvements not moved over to the Black version?  Thank you in advance for potentially answering that question.

 

[Corsair Nick]

The design of the white LL120 fans is no different from the black version.  Only key difference was the increased maximum RPM on the white version. Because the fan was released with the H100i Platinum SE Hydro Cooler, we wanted to maximize the cooling potential of the combo.  LL120 fans can be used with radiators, but if you want the best balance of performance and silence, ML120 fans will be the choice to go with.

[GMart84]

@Corsair Nick Thank you for the response, I love the look of the LL Fans and am now thinking that I should swap out the Black versions to the White versions just for the increased cooling capacity.  I am aware that the MLs would be a better choice but they just do not produce the same look and the LED versions are not the same in terms of performance.

 

I am thinking that with the increased pressure from jumping from 1.61 mmH2O to 3.00 mm H2O moving to the higher RPM fans will allow me to move on my thick radiators to just a push from the outside using the White LL's while maintaining the look.

 

I can say however that your iCue software pushes the Black LLs way past the 1500 RPM Max at some points they are actually running 1750-1800 for extended periods of time.

[Skiiwee29]

1 hour ago, GMart84 said:

@Corsair Nick Thank you for the response, I love the look of the LL Fans and am now thinking that I should swap out the Black versions to the White versions just for the increased cooling capacity.  I am aware that the MLs would be a better choice but they just do not produce the same look and the LED versions are not the same in terms of performance.

 

I am thinking that with the increased pressure from jumping from 1.61 mmH2O to 3.00 mm H2O moving to the higher RPM fans will allow me to move on my thick radiators to just a push from the outside using the White LL's while maintaining the look.

 

I can say however that your iCue software pushes the Black LLs way past the 1500 RPM Max at some points they are actually running 1750-1800 for extended periods of time.

Need to remember, the static pressure ratings listed is generally the maximum achieved and will be when the fan is at 100% RPM, not at say 30-40% or whatever you have it set to at idle and load levels. 

[Ttnuagmada]

12 hours ago, GMart84 said:

 

@Ttnuagmada

 

The High Speed versions of those Silent Wing 3's have rather impressive specs only 28.6 dB at full throttle and moving massive amounts of air.  I may have to get a couple just to see how good they are.

You will not be disappointed. They are top notch. 

[GMart84]

@Skiiwee29 You are absolutely correct, thank you for the reminder.  I wonder if there is a document some where that shows the curves on some of these fans.  I did read a review that was on techpowerup that many radiators can still work with lower pressure fans but just not quite as well.

 

If I say target the best performing fan at 50% PWM I think those beQuiet Silent Wings may win out, but I cannot locate decent data on how much of the flow and pressure are there at that level for any of the options I am looking at.

[Ttnuagmada]

49 minutes ago, GMart84 said:

@Skiiwee29 You are absolutely correct, thank you for the reminder.  I wonder if there is a document some where that shows the curves on some of these fans.  I did read a review that was on techpowerup that many radiators can still work with lower pressure fans but just not quite as well.

 

If I say target the best performing fan at 50% PWM I think those beQuiet Silent Wings may win out, but I cannot locate decent data on how much of the flow and pressure are there at that level for any of the options I am looking at.

 

I can give you some anecdotal evidence on the SW3 performance vs the ML120's. When i was trying to decide which fans to go with for my SMA8 build, i bought a bunch of several types just to see what their real world performance was, and see what they all sounded like, because dB doesn't tell the story. Some fans have a sound signature that you might not like even though they are "quiet".  As far as that goes, EK Vardar F3's and Nidec GT's have a distinct motor/bearing noise that can be heard much above 800 rpm, and i thought they sounded awful even if they are technically "quiet". 

 

Anywho, the ML120's actually performed noticeably worse than the SW3's in terms of Delta T on my EK 360XE cooling a 3770K. I had to run the MLs at 1000 rpm to get the same cooling performance as the SW3's at 800 rpm. The SW3's also had no sound of any kind other than air movement (on the 1400rpm ones at least) even at max speed. The ML's were quiet too, they just performed worse.  Airflow and SP measurements don't tell the whole story apparently. 

[GMart84]

@Ttnuagmada Thank you for the information.  It is going to prove highly useful in how I look at these fans.

 

Here is my test plan, my daughter wants to water cool her PC, and I am going to use that as a way of testing different fans in terms of performance as her H200i Case and only a single rad will be easier to work with.  I am going to use a sound meter that I have to test each fan at 40, 50, 60, 100% PWM and then I will load up the CPU with AIDA 64 and see what happens for each one.  Once I figure out which one gives me the best overall performance I will then purchase my packages of fans for my build.

[Corsair Nick]

17 hours ago, GMart84 said:

@Corsair Nick

 

I can say however that your iCue software pushes the Black LLs way past the 1500 RPM Max at some points they are actually running 1750-1800 for extended periods of time.

Not uncommon to see.  We state a 10% +/- for RPM variance in our spec which can be accounted for by air flow resistance, etc.

[Ttnuagmada]

8 hours ago, GMart84 said:

@Ttnuagmada Thank you for the information.  It is going to prove highly useful in how I look at these fans.

 

Here is my test plan, my daughter wants to water cool her PC, and I am going to use that as a way of testing different fans in terms of performance as her H200i Case and only a single rad will be easier to work with.  I am going to use a sound meter that I have to test each fan at 40, 50, 60, 100% PWM and then I will load up the CPU with AIDA 64 and see what happens for each one.  Once I figure out which one gives me the best overall performance I will then purchase my packages of fans for my build.

Thats similar to what I did, i bought 5 different kinds of fans to test out.  Also keep in mind that dB doesn't tell the whole story. Sound signature is just as important. For example, EK Vardars and NIdec GT's sound really bad once you go above 800-900 rpm even if their dB isn't bad.

[GMart84]

@Corsair Nick @Ttnuagmada

I completed some tests and I could get the Black LLs to spin up to 1825 RPM simply by setting it there in iCue.  They are fairly loud at that point and seem to move much more air but that is not good for the longevity of the fans.

 

I visited my favorite store Micro Center and picked up a White LL and a ML Pro fans, I also ordered a Silent Wings 3, Vardar 2200RPM, and Noctua A12x25.  Testing will happen likely this weekend as I get all the components together for the “build” for my daughter that is really testing for me.

 

Thank you for the advice guys.

[GMart84]

@Corsair Nick @Ttnuagmada

 

So over the weekend I was able to try a few things with three of the fans.  The Be Quiet Silent Wing 3 High Speed fans are damn impressive.  They move a lot of air and do so quietly and as already mentioned the sound signature is almost like a white noise machine at full speed so that I could almost use it as something to help me fall asleep.  They also seem to really push the air in a singular direction.  Given my daughter's set up the radiator fans are a mounted in the front of the fan tray and the radiator on the back, there is a small gap (about 1mm) that does allow some air to escape but not much with these.

 

The ML Pro fans move a lot of air as well, and seem to direct it well, but their sound signature is extremely distinct.  Anywhere above 40% PWM they make audible noise that seems much louder than it actually is.  At some level I would consider it more like a vacuum sound, but there is something just different enough about it to make it very noticeable.

 

The Noctua A12x25 was about the same volume as the SW3s but did not move as much air.  Even still they did a good job keeping her very low powered system cool, but aesthetics is a thing and I just cannot get over the color.  It is not that they are bad fans, but given how visible they are in both my case and her case I just cannot get over.

 

The Vardars are just loud, they are very effective with the Coolstream Radiators as they should be, but they were the loudest fan I tested.  They did have more air leakage through the small gap as well versus others.  I am pretty sure that with a good fan sealing gasket they may get better.

 

The White Corsair LLs definitely win in the aesthetics department and the new bearing that they have seems to keep the volume about the same as the black versions I have in my case right now.  They move significantly more air than the black ones, and the noise being about the same is great.  If I need to choose right now I would take these because they seem to be the catch all fans.  I went back to Micro Center and bought two more to put into my Daughter's PC as the primary fans and see how they do.  Initial findings in her case are reasonable and will watch over time as I get the kinks worked out.