Omron switches rant + advice needed

[Tanaz]

I've gone through 500 dollars worth of Logitech mice in the past year and a half.Two G900s, G403 and a G502 hero. Always the same issues : doubleclicking, switches getting soft and less crisp and overall switch quality is idiotic. I've exchanged more messages with Logitech customer support than I had with my highschool crush. Please for the love of god  I need someone to give me a list of quality mice that do not use these terrible switches. I will not give any more money to Logitech just to be sold hot garbage. I've tried googling " mice that don't use omron switches" but it doesn't seem to help. Any ideas?

[seon123]

Omrons are fairly standard on pretty much all high end gaming mice. I know Zowie at least used to use Huano switches, but they might have switched to Omron for their newer ones. I know that they had issues when they first wanted to switch to Omrons, but I haven't checked what they actually use these days. 

[Tanaz]

2 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Omrons are fairly standard on pretty much all high end gaming mice. I know Zowie at least used to use Huano switches, but they might have switched to Omron for their newer ones. I know that they had issues when they first wanted to switch to Omrons, but I haven't checked what they actually use these days. 

The sheer volume of complain threads on new Logitech mice especially is staggering. I feel like at this point a mouse costs them so little to make that they'd rather live with the costs of replacement mice than improve the quality. I think the ROG mouse that has the hotswappable switches + a bag full of switches is my most reasonable choice at this point.

[Hiya!]

2 hours ago, Tanaz said:

The sheer volume of complain threads on new Logitech mice especially is staggering

Sources?

[Tanaz]

8 hours ago, Hiya! said:

Sources?

Just googling "logitech doubleclick"  returns hundreds of support tickets to logitech and forum threads. You could say that's not an accurate measurement of percentage failed mice but it still shows it is a fairly common issue. I see you're a mouse expert I'd be really greatful if you gave me a list of mice that don't use these switches.

[reallylikeskeypad]

10 hours ago, Hiya! said:

Sources?

logitech gaming mice are notorious for having double click issues, just google it

 

 

also most omron switches are fine, but logitech just uses its cheap chinese ones

[Tanaz]

12 minutes ago, reallylikeskeypad said:

logitech gaming mice are notorious for having double click issues, just google it

 

 

also most omron switches are fine, but logitech just uses its cheap chinese ones

Exactly right. From what I've read the Japanese Omrons are actually extremely high quality.

[reallylikeskeypad]

22 minutes ago, Tanaz said:

Exactly right. From what I've read the Japanese Omrons are actually extremely high quality.

also if you have the equipment and knowledge you can try buying and soldering on better switches

[Hiya!]

1 hour ago, reallylikeskeypad said:

logitech gaming mice are notorious for having double click issues, just google it

 

 

also most omron switches are fine, but logitech just uses its cheap chinese ones

Nope they arent..early razer mice are.

 

Also lol there is no chinese omron. Omron is japanese switch..there is no clone of that switch.

[Tanaz]

31 minutes ago, Hiya! said:

Nope they arent..early razer mice are.

 

Also lol there is no chinese omron. Omron is japanese switch..there is no clone of that switch.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS-LOT-New-Authentic-OMRON-Mouse-Micro-Switch-D2FC-F-7N-Mouse-Button-Fretting/2026708442.html

 

I guess that's a misprint. If you disassemble any Logitech mouse those are the switches you will find there. There's a picture of the difference inside the switch between the Japanese and Chinese ones.

[pas008]

never had any problem with the switches on any of my logitech mice besides my own doing

like from mistreatment

owned several g5, g700, g502

a g602,  g900, g903

prolly missing alot of others too

I know they arent build like tanks a hard drop can render them useless pretty much

 

and I have owned many others like rat, razer, corsair, cm and same story there

[Hiya!]

1 hour ago, Tanaz said:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS-LOT-New-Authentic-OMRON-Mouse-Micro-Switch-D2FC-F-7N-Mouse-Button-Fretting/2026708442.html

 

I guess that's a misprint. If you disassemble any Logitech mouse those are the switches you will find there. There's a picture of the difference inside the switch between the Japanese and Chinese ones.

Hmmm interesting but i dont think its a clone as you cant use omron name if it was.

 

And i am just being honest here..after owning G402 for more than 2 years and other logitech mice..and more than 4 years on the net and fps forum and 2 years on ltt i rarely heard of someone ranting about logitech switch failing unlike razer.

 

Steelseries use huano but their recent mice also use omron..the only option is to buy the old steelseries mice that still use omron or desolder it urself..

[Tanaz]

11 minutes ago, pas008 said:

never had any problem with the switches on any of my logitech mice besides my own doing

like from mistreatment

owned several g5, g700, g502

a g602,  g900, g903

prolly missing alot of others too

I know they arent build like tanks a hard drop can render them useless pretty much

 

and I have owned many others like rat, razer, corsair, cm and same story there

Zero drops and zero harsh treatment towards mine. And usually the left click goes on mine which is particularly weird because I play MOBAs and my right click is much more abused.

[Tanaz]

Just now, Hiya! said:

Hmmm interesting but i dont think its a clone as you cant use omron name if it was.

 

And i am just being honest here..after owning G402 for more than 2 years and other logitech mice..and more than 4 years on the net and fps forum and 2 years on ltt i rarely heard of someone ranting about logitech switch failing unlike razer.

 

Steelseries use huano but their recent mice also use omron..the only option is to buy the old steelseries mice that still use omron or desolder it urself..

It's not a clone. They are both made by Omron but the switch itself is different. As you can see in the picture the button is metal instead of plastic and the plate beneath it is more solid. The chinese Omrons cost 1/3 of the price of the Japanese ones. I think other than the price most gaming mice are made with the chinese switch simply so they avoid shipping from Japan which would add to the cost.

[LukeLinusFanFic]

Doesn't every reputable brand use omeron switches?

[pas008]

19 minutes ago, Tanaz said:

Zero drops and zero harsh treatment towards mine. And usually the left click goes on mine which is particularly weird because I play MOBAs and my right click is much more abused.

replace the switches yourself the g900 were known to have crappy switches inside many talked about they replaced theirs and its perfect now

[Tanaz]

2 hours ago, Joelw2003 said:

Why do you keep buying them then?

Because they advertised their "new" switches with the G900 and G502 hero that are supposed to have 50 million click durability. I fell for set advertising thinking they'd be using the Japanese omrons which they're not. It's my fault I admit and it won't happen again.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Never had any switch-related problems on my Logitech mice. That said my G603's scroll wheel barely works (scrolls up randomly when scrolling down and vice versa)

[Hiya!]

8 hours ago, Tanaz said:

Because they advertised their "new" switches with the G900 and G502 hero that are supposed to have 50 million click durability. I fell for set advertising thinking they'd be using the Japanese omrons which they're not. It's my fault I admit and it won't happen again.

Have u confirm it urself that your mouse use said switches?

[rice guru]

I've been using Logitech mice the past 3 years and have yet to have any issues with them. I play pretty often and play MOBAs and shooters so those switches get a fair bit of abuse but they still feel and function great. With the amount of mice you went through you are probably just slamming them or dropping them too much 

[b emoji]

 

On 4/5/2019 at 2:33 PM, Hiya! said:

Also lol there is no chinese omron. Omron is japanese switch..there is no clone of that switch.

On 4/5/2019 at 4:57 PM, Hiya! said:

Hmmm interesting but i dont think its a clone as you cant use omron name if it was.

There is, Omron is a Japanese company but it has 2 main sites for its factories, China and Japan

Switches marked with D2F means that it was produced in Japan, this switch will be marked with "Japan" on its top housing.

The more common D2FC means that the switch was produced in China hence the C, this switch has different markings on the housing which varies from batch to batch, most of the top housings simply say omron, and "China" lasered on the side housing while other simply have a "C" or a product #. 

 

China switches also have diffrent varients 

D2FC uses a "silver alloy spring" D2FC-01 uses a “gold alloy spring”

 

Also they have different lifespan ratings, 10, 20, 50M cycles etc.

 

There are not clones. Some say the Japan switches feel better and have better consistency and tolerance. 

On 4/5/2019 at 1:08 PM, reallylikeskeypad said:

also most omron switches are fine, but logitech just uses its cheap chinese ones

Most mice use Omron China D2FC switches now... 

[Hiya!]

6 hours ago, b emoji said:

Most mice use Omron China D2FC switches now... 

Need sauces on this..op havent reply yet

[Tanaz]

Sorry for waking this old topic up but I have some news. This issue is happening due to static electricity buildup inside the switch. It is usually caused by low humidity. I literally unplugged the mouse to use my back up and a few days later tried it out again just to see what happens .Lo and behold the mouse worked again and it worked perfectly until the weather got chilly and I had to turn my AC on. A few days went by and the problem returned. At this point I realised it simply HAD to be a non-hardware issue and I found a lot of people claiming that the omron switches suffer from this static build up and the only way to fix this is to unplug the mouse and press all the buttons in order to allow the static to discharge. After I did that my mouse worked again! Now I am almost certain that my previous mice had the same issue as well and would have probably worked had I unplugged them and let the static discharge. What a weird weird querk..

[flexy123]

I have never heard about "static buildup" causing double-clicks, and I just researched this and it was also satisfactory (to me) debunked as myth/nonsense.

 

What causes misclicks and double-clicks, from my experience is corroded contacts and particles (dust etc.) in the micro switches. And these do corrode, often, over time.

 

I already fixed several mice by carefully opening up the switches, and then 1) use a piece coffee filter, paper towel etc soaked in vinegar carefully sliding between the contacts to clean them from corrosion. And then follow up with cleaning the switches with alcohol. (Tiny brush like from a shaver is extremely helpful). In my case it has ALWAYS been debris or whatever between the contacts that caused misclicks. (Alternatively, simply replace the switches with new ones if you know how to use a soldering iron and a desoldering pump.)

 

My wife's NEW Logitech M510 developed sh!tty double clicks only after a few months. Replaced with another Omron switch, it's perfect.

My own mouse is an ancient MX518, I never had double-click issues, but switches can get "gnarly" in time. After some years I usually replace switches.

 

*** Edit: The switch problem isn't just with mice, but with countless other electronic gadgets which have these types of switches, say game controllers (certain switches there) or vaping mods. The problem here is that the switches are SMD soldered, so one can't just simply replace them easily like mice switches. What I do: I submerge the PCB into a small cup with vinegar so that the switch is soaking it up. (Carefully not to submerse parts that shouldn't, only the switch). After an hour, take out, and then submerse in 99% alcohol. Alternatively, just use drops of alcohol, drop on switch. The alcohol and then using the switch a few times essentially dislodges and cleans the contacts. Buttons which had been flakey will work like new again

[Falkentyne]

On 4/23/2019 at 3:24 AM, Tanaz said:

Sorry for waking this old topic up but I have some news. This issue is happening due to static electricity buildup inside the switch. It is usually caused by low humidity. I literally unplugged the mouse to use my back up and a few days later tried it out again just to see what happens .Lo and behold the mouse worked again and it worked perfectly until the weather got chilly and I had to turn my AC on. A few days went by and the problem returned. At this point I realised it simply HAD to be a non-hardware issue and I found a lot of people claiming that the omron switches suffer from this static build up and the only way to fix this is to unplug the mouse and press all the buttons in order to allow the static to discharge. After I did that my mouse worked again! Now I am almost certain that my previous mice had the same issue as well and would have probably worked had I unplugged them and let the static discharge. What a weird weird querk..

This is actually only partially true.

The mouse switch internal contacts degrade, and eventually they will degrade to the point where you can't even keep the switch held down without it randomly releasing.  That's going to happen on the chinese Omrons no matter what you do.

 

The static problem causes a change in resistance inside the switch, which simply -enhances- the problem, because the resistance increases too much, which lowers the threshold at which electrical contact is lost.  When you get rid of any spare electricity (it's not really 'static), some of the resistance returns, and the mouse performs more like before.  The switch will still continue slowly degrading however.  There was a very good video released not too long ago which explained EXACTLY why this happens and it has nothing to do with static.