Mechanics ripping you off

[Noctus]

Came across this video while clicking through the web and thought i'd post this here for those less savvy with car repair (yeah its a yr old vid, still relevant imo). 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-avpx8UTakI

[ZetZet]

house brand oil, yep i'm done.

[SkywardKkalox]

Always satisfied when scammers get caught.

[techswede]

Its sad that douchebags like this give proper mechanics a bad name.

[BoredErica]

I guess oil changing stations do this because there's not much money in changing the oil?

 

There's a big difference between upcharge and not even performing the operation.

[Guest]

Why are American cars so ugly?

[Thunderpup]

I guess oil changing stations do this because there's not much money in changing the oil?

 

There's a big difference between upcharge and not even performing the operation.

 

I spent my college years working in a gas (petrol) station's garage and i was the guy who did the bulk of the oil changes.  So i've seen it from both sides of the counter and i can offer my input. 

 

Generally the "profit" on oil changes is very slim to almost none. It's treated as a way to get customers to come in and establish a relationship with them.  

If the vehicle in question takes a non-standard oil filter or type of oil the business will likely charge more for the oil change than the advertised price, or suggest to the customer to bring their own supplies.  Cars with internal oil filters, such as BMWs, or vehicles that use odd ball oil weights such as civic hybrids and their 0w-20 oil are examples of what is "non-standard" at least here in the states.

 

Now what also happens is the "mechanic" will do a look over to see if there is anything else wrong with the vehicle. Partly to generate more business and partly just so the customer knows.

This part is a mixed bag cause I've seen both sides of it.  Some shops push hard for the up sell, even if its something that isn't super important or entirely necessary, because the mechanic works mainly off commission.  Customers get super annoyed by this, and pushy shop workers can sour the experience.  

On the other hand if someone gets an oil change and something happens to the vehicle down the road where something broke the customer will get pissed because you didn't warn them.  Even if there were no indicators.

I remember one time a regular customer came in for an oil change and a look over because they were going to go out of town on vacation in a few weeks.  We did the oil change, did the standard look over. Everything seemed fine, all the fluids were fine, the radiator was full, no visible leaks, and nothing major stuck out.  The car was about 15 years old so it wasn't amazing, but nothing that stood out as needing to be done either. Well a month later when they started their trip the thermostat light came on which caused them to turn the AC on to "cool it off" which does the exact opposite btw and eventually the engine died.

 

Well one of their radiator hoses has sprung a leak and fluid came out. Fortunately they didn't brick the engine, but it was a major problem.  When they came back the customer was really pissed we didn't warn them about it.  Even though the hoses "looked fine" even during the squeeze test.  After that they never came back.

 

On a personal note i can tell you an experience from the customer's side of the counter. After i had left the garage i was working at the one and only oil change i ever paid for was at a carspa where they advertised an oil change and exterior car wash for 24.99 which was a pretty good deal.  After they pulled my car in they wanted to charge me an extra 10 bucks because my car takes 5w-30 which isn't "bulk".  Which means they buy cases of individual quarts rather than have a large tank of it that pumps via a metered hose.  My shop did the same thing but we switched the tank to 5w30 because 10w30 wasnt in demand anymore so i knew they were bullshitting me.  I ultimately paid for the oil change because i was going out of town and didn't have the time to do it myself

 

Now i do the majority of my own work in my driveway. Most of the regular stuff is pretty easy with a basic set of tools. The more complicated stuff i either go to a buddy of mine's house and pay him to do it, or go to the garage he works at and have him do it there while he is on the clock.  It cost more money, but there are somethings you need a lift to do. 

 

I've been lucky so far that most of the stuff needing to be done i can still do myself. This thread piqued my interest because i just replaced the front brakes and rotors on my car this morning. 

About the only thing i cant duplicate between myself and my friend is new tires.  His shop doesn't have a tire machine, and it isn't something worth while for me to try and buy. 

Once you are used to paying the warehouse cost for tires you will never look at a "tire sale" the same way. 

 

Why are American cars so ugly?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Trik'Stari]

Mechanic tried to scam my mom out of $500 earlier this yes.

 

We took her Nissan Murano into the shop because when it hits a bump, the car continues to bounce for a few seconds afterwards, and this can sometimes cause the car to move side to side. He tried telling her it was the control arm bushings, when I know for a fact that excessive bouncing is always a suspension problem related to your shocks. Although I am a bit confused because her rear suspension, doesn't have traditional springs with a piston in the middle, it just has springs.

[TheKleen]

Don't let mechanics change your oil unless it's to satisfy a warranty at a dealership, it's very easy to do yourself.

 

I had a friend that got his oil changed at wal-mart once, as he drove off oil started pouring out the bottom of his car. Turns out the lazy "mechanic" that did the change left the old gasket from oil filter stuck on and put the new filter on top of it, preventing a proper seal. Could have destroyed his engine if someone didn't notice and stop him.

[BoredErica]

I spent my college years working in a gas (petrol) station's garage and i was the guy who did the bulk of the oil changes.  So i've seen it from both sides of the counter and i can offer my input. 

 

Generally the "profit" on oil changes is very slim to almost none. It's treated as a way to get customers to come in and establish a relationship with them.  

If the vehicle in question takes a non-standard oil filter or type of oil the business will likely charge more for the oil change than the advertised price, or suggest to the customer to bring their own supplies.  Cars with internal oil filters, such as BMWs, or vehicles that use odd ball oil weights such as civic hybrids and their 0w-20 oil are examples of what is "non-standard" at least here in the states.

 

Now what also happens is the "mechanic" will do a look over to see if there is anything else wrong with the vehicle. Partly to generate more business and partly just so the customer knows.

This part is a mixed bag cause I've seen both sides of it.  Some shops push hard for the up sell, even if its something that isn't super important or entirely necessary, because the mechanic works mainly off commission.  Customers get super annoyed by this, and pushy shop workers can sour the experience.  

On the other hand if someone gets an oil change and something happens to the vehicle down the road where something broke the customer will get pissed because you didn't warn them.  Even if there were no indicators.

I remember one time a regular customer came in for an oil change and a look over because they were going to go out of town on vacation in a few weeks.  We did the oil change, did the standard look over. Everything seemed fine, all the fluids were fine, the radiator was full, no visible leaks, and nothing major stuck out.  The car was about 15 years old so it wasn't amazing, but nothing that stood out as needing to be done either. Well a month later when they started their trip the thermostat light came on which caused them to turn the AC on to "cool it off" which does the exact opposite btw and eventually the engine died.

 

Well one of their radiator hoses has sprung a leak and fluid came out. Fortunately they didn't brick the engine, but it was a major problem.  When they came back the customer was really pissed we didn't warn them about it.  Even though the hoses "looked fine" even during the squeeze test.  After that they never came back.

 

On a personal note i can tell you an experience from the customer's side of the counter. After i had left the garage i was working at the one and only oil change i ever paid for was at a carspa where they advertised an oil change and exterior car wash for 24.99 which was a pretty good deal.  After they pulled my car in they wanted to charge me an extra 10 bucks because my car takes 5w-30 which isn't "bulk".  Which means they buy cases of individual quarts rather than have a large tank of it that pumps via a metered hose.  My shop did the same thing but we switched the tank to 5w30 because 10w30 wasnt in demand anymore so i knew they were bullshitting me.  I ultimately paid for the oil change because i was going out of town and didn't have the time to do it myself

 

Now i do the majority of my own work in my driveway. Most of the regular stuff is pretty easy with a basic set of tools. The more complicated stuff i either go to a buddy of mine's house and pay him to do it, or go to the garage he works at and have him do it there while he is on the clock.  It cost more money, but there are somethings you need a lift to do. 

 

I've been lucky so far that most of the stuff needing to be done i can still do myself. This thread piqued my interest because i just replaced the front brakes and rotors on my car this morning. 

About the only thing i cant duplicate between myself and my friend is new tires.  His shop doesn't have a tire machine, and it isn't something worth while for me to try and buy. 

Once you are used to paying the warehouse cost for tires you will never look at a "tire sale" the same way. 

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Not doing the procedure is still a whole new level, that's beyond just upsell.

 

Doing an oil change myself is a PITA because I have to get it inside my garage and I don't have a good jack and jackstands.

[vetali]

Don't get your oil changed at fast lubes lmao. Those workers aren't even mechanics. They're salesmen to get you to do unnecessary work because they make no or negative profit on oil changes. Go to an actual shop or do it yourself. 

 

Mechanic tried to scam my mom out of $500 earlier this yes.

 

We took her Nissan Murano into the shop because when it hits a bump, the car continues to bounce for a few seconds afterwards, and this can sometimes cause the car to move side to side. He tried telling her it was the control arm bushings, when I know for a fact that excessive bouncing is always a suspension problem related to your shocks. Although I am a bit confused because her rear suspension, doesn't have traditional springs with a piston in the middle, it just has springs.

You do know you have the right to see the defective part before replacement, right? Shocks are easy to check, bounce the car and if takes more than a bounce and a half to go back to rest then they need replacement. Control arm bushings won't cause excessive bouncing but can cause squeaking, excessive play, and shimmy like you described. It is possible to have more than one problem. 

 

Not that I'm defending the mechanic because a lot of them don't attend any school or have any certs. Even ASE is a joke cert, its pretty much like the A+ certs you can get. Just get second opinions and always, always, ask to see whats wrong before having the work done. 

[PCBjon]

I'm a firm believer that all motorist should be able to do oil changes and basic vehicle maintenance  if your gonna becoming a road user. I have always done my own serving and never went to a mechanic due to been completely ripped off once. You be surprised at the amount of people that cant change a flat.

[deVIZtation]

I'm a firm believer that all motorist should be able to do oil changes and basic vehicle maintenance  if your gonna becoming a road user. I have always done my own serving and never went to a mechanic due to been completely ripped off once. You be surprised at the amount of people that cant change a flat.

I saw a dude in his late 30's on the side of the road one day coming home from work. He had to call a cop to help change a flat tire, my mind was blown.

[PCBjon]

I saw a dude in his late 30's on the side of the road one day coming home from work. He had to call a cop to help change a flat tire, my mind was blown.

I stopped to help a guy as well few years back and instead of changing it for him I showed him how to do it, he didn't even have an interested in what I was showing him he didn't even have a lifting jack.

[vetali]

I saw a dude in his late 30's on the side of the road one day coming home from work. He had to call a cop to help change a flat tire, my mind was blown.

Once you work in the trade, you become numb to the automotive ineptitude in people. Cars are designed to where you "put into D and go". Lots of cars come in that have a complaint of an interior rattle, then you go for a test drive and its got a miss under load, brake pedal goes nearly to the floor, brake pedal vibrates, steering wheel clunks and has play, shocks are wasted, ABS and check engine light are on. 

 

But there is a really annoying rattle in the dash somewhere, which turns out to be loose change in the glove box. 

 

Then theres the people that self diagnose a leaking heater core and want it replaced, then you finally get to it and its not leaking at all. Not to mention all the trash in the car left for you. That's a serious true story. Dodge neon, filled to the seats with McDonalds bags and unused (thankfully) female hygiene products. I took all their shit and threw it in the back seat with more trash, and they were pissed we didn't clean it out for them. 

[Trik'Stari]

Don't get your oil changed at fast lubes lmao. Those workers aren't even mechanics. They're salesmen to get you to do unnecessary work because they make no or negative profit on oil changes. Go to an actual shop or do it yourself. 

 

You do know you have the right to see the defective part before replacement, right? Shocks are easy to check, bounce the car and if takes more than a bounce and a half to go back to rest then they need replacement. Control arm bushings won't cause excessive bouncing but can cause squeaking, excessive play, and shimmy like you described. It is possible to have more than one problem. 

 

Not that I'm defending the mechanic because a lot of them don't attend any school or have any certs. Even ASE is a joke cert, its pretty much like the A+ certs you can get. Just get second opinions and always, always, ask to see whats wrong before having the work done. 

How on earth can a control arm cause shimmying? What made me not believe them, is they claimed the suspension was all fine. It's got 150k miles on it.

 

It shimmies in the rear. Front seems fine, no pull or wobbling. Let go of the wheel and it just goes straight as a rail until you hit a bump. Then the rear is all over the place. I thought maybe it was a wheel bearing, but they claim those are fine as well.

[deVIZtation]

Once you work in the trade, you become numb to the automotive ineptitude in people. Cars are designed to where you "put into D and go". Lots of cars come in that have a complaint of an interior rattle, then you go for a test drive and its got a miss under load, brake pedal goes nearly to the floor, brake pedal vibrates, steering wheel clunks and has play, shocks are wasted, ABS and check engine light are on. 

 

But there is a really annoying rattle in the dash somewhere, which turns out to be loose change in the glove box. 

 

Then theres the people that self diagnose a leaking heater core and want it replaced, then you finally get to it and its not leaking at all. Not to mention all the trash in the car left for you. That's a serious true story. Dodge neon, filled to the seats with McDonalds bags and unused (thankfully) female hygiene products. I took all their shit and threw it in the back seat with more trash, and they were pissed we didn't clean it out for them. 

Dad was/still is a mechanic for over 30 years, and taught me a lot of what I know now about cars. He told me one time a lady came in with her minivan that she bought brand new 5 years ago for her first oil change and the car had about 50k miles on it.  It's about about that "put into D and go."

[vetali]

How on earth can a control arm cause shimmying? What made me not believe them, is they claimed the suspension was all fine. It's got 150k miles on it.

 

It shimmies in the rear. Front seems fine, no pull or wobbling. Let go of the wheel and it just goes straight as a rail until you hit a bump. Then the rear is all over the place. I thought maybe it was a wheel bearing, but they claim those are fine as well.

Very simple really. A control arm should not have play. They will pivot in the direction that the suspension is designed to jounce, however if there is excessive play it will cause the control arm to move in a manner its not designed to. This play can throw off your alignment angles over a simple bounce. That can create a pull or unexpected travel. Thats if the bushing is completely wasted.

 

https://youtu.be/qXP4Ir8Ths4?t=1m24s

 

That video shows it pretty well. Same applies to the rear. 

[stconquest]

A week ago I noticed my brakes got really loose, like really loose.  I though it was the brake pads/rotor.  So I called a shop I actually kind of trust.  They quoted the pads and rotors changed for around $300.  For the two front wheels.

 

I talked to the guy when I got there and went over the symptom (loose break pedal), a lot slower to come to a stop.  He said he would get the car up and diagnosed.  I got a call 45min later.  Apparently, the break line had ruptured.  So it was going to be a four hour repair.  He said the parts were dirt cheap (to replace the lines), but the labor was going to hurt.  He quoted $500 initially.  I said go ahead.

 

All in all, it took them about 5 hours, I told them I was not in a rush.  I went for a four hour walk.  

 

My question to any of you guys that work on cars, how much trouble is it to get to the brake lines in order to replace them?  This is a 98 Camry.

 

Whatever they did worked great, and I do trust this shop.  I will tell you guys what the final tally was later. 

[TheKleen]

A week ago I noticed my brakes got really loose, like really loose.  I though it was the brake pads/rotor.  So I called a shop I actually kind of trust.  They quoted the pads and rotors changed for around $300.  For the two front wheels.

 

I talked to the guy when I got there and went over the symptom (loose break pedal), a lot slower to come to a stop.  He said he would get the car up and diagnosed.  I got a call 45min later.  Apparently, the break line had ruptured.  So it was going to be a four hour repair.  He said the parts were dirt cheap (to replace the lines), but the labor was going to hurt.  He quoted $500 initially.  I said go ahead.

 

All in all, it took them about 5 hours, I told them I was not in a rush.  I went for a four hour walk.  

 

My question to any of you guys that work on cars, how much trouble is it to get to the brake lines in order to replace them?  This is a 98 Camry.

 

Whatever they did worked great, and I do trust this shop.  I will tell you guys what the final tally was later. 

 

Replacing brake hoses shouldn't be a four hour job for an experienced mechanic with all the proper tools, it could certainly take that long for a backyard mechanic working with what he has. If you told them you weren't in a hurry then they weren't either. 

[vetali]

Dad was/still is a mechanic for over 30 years, and taught me a lot of what I know now about cars. He told me one time a lady came in with her minivan that she bought brand new 5 years ago for her first oil change and the car had about 50k miles on it.  It's about about that "put into D and go."

Before I started there was this regular lady at the shop, had 3 motors put in her highlander because she didn't maintain them at her own expense. Then after I started I was doing an inspection on her car and it needed front brakes, resurface rotors, and 4 new tires. Pretty hefty bill with the tires, but thats all routine stuff. Anyway she was pissed and said that after this she was selling her Toyota and getting an american car because japanese cars just weren't reliable enough...

 

Whatever man... people are crazy. 

 

My question to any of you guys that work on cars, how much trouble is it to get to the brake lines in order to replace them?  This is a 98 Camry.

Well, it depends. If its the rubber line that goes to the caliper those are really easy. If its a hard line from the master cylinder or ABS module that goes all over the place they can be really really hard. Had to do a brake line on a dodge 2500 longbed from the abs module to the rear. That sucked a lot. Took me like 2 hours to bend, flare, fit, and make it look pretty.

[Trik'Stari]

Very simple really. A control arm should not have play. They will pivot in the direction that the suspension is designed to jounce, however if there is excessive play it will cause the control arm to move in a manner its not designed to. This play can throw off your alignment angles over a simple bounce. That can create a pull or unexpected travel. Thats if the bushing is completely wasted.

 

https://youtu.be/qXP4Ir8Ths4?t=1m24s

 

That video shows it pretty well. Same applies to the rear. 

Well, I guess you do learn something every day. Could this cause the excessive bouncing, or am I right in thinking something is wrong with the springs? Bouncing it when stationary does nothing, but going over a bump in the car, it bounces at least twice.

[stconquest]

Replacing brake hoses shouldn't be a four hour job for an experienced mechanic with all the proper tools, it could certainly take that long for a backyard mechanic working with what he has. If you told them you weren't in a hurry then they weren't either. 

 

I guess they prioritize.  It ended up being $50 for parts, $400 for labor.  I have no clue what it takes to change the line(s).  lol just started watching brake line replacement videos now.

[stconquest]

--

 

Well, it depends. If its the rubber line that goes to the caliper those are really easy. If its a hard line from the master cylinder or ABS module that goes all over the place they can be really really hard. Had to do a brake line on a dodge 2500 longbed from the abs module to the rear. That sucked a lot. Took me like 2 hours to bend, flare, fit, and make it look pretty.

 

ty

 

...and my camry has 300K+ KM on it... I am surprised it is still going.

[Thunderpup]

Not doing the procedure is still a whole new level, that's beyond just upsell.

 

Doing an oil change myself is a PITA because I have to get it inside my garage and I don't have a good jack and jackstands.

I agree about the video, and what i said wasn't to justify what they did, but there are a lot of misconceptions about garages and oil changes so i gave some info for folks who may not know.

 

I do my own work in the driveway as my garage is too full.  Jack stands are pretty cheap at harbor freight; which is where i got mine. 

 

I stopped to help a guy as well few years back and instead of changing it for him I showed him how to do it, he didn't even have an interested in what I was showing him he didn't even have a lifting jack.

A friend of mine went out to dinner with her fiance and came out of the restaurant to a flat tire. Even though her soon to be hubby was with her she still had to call me to come change it out because he didnt know how. 

 

A week ago I noticed my brakes got really loose, like really loose.  I though it was the brake pads/rotor.  So I called a shop I actually kind of trust.  They quoted the pads and rotors changed for around $300.  For the two front wheels.

 

I talked to the guy when I got there and went over the symptom (loose break pedal), a lot slower to come to a stop.  He said he would get the car up and diagnosed.  I got a call 45min later.  Apparently, the break line had ruptured.  So it was going to be a four hour repair.  He said the parts were dirt cheap (to replace the lines), but the labor was going to hurt.  He quoted $500 initially.  I said go ahead.

 

All in all, it took them about 5 hours, I told them I was not in a rush.  I went for a four hour walk.  

 

My question to any of you guys that work on cars, how much trouble is it to get to the brake lines in order to replace them?  This is a 98 Camry.

 

Whatever they did worked great, and I do trust this shop.  I will tell you guys what the final tally was later. 

 

Had the same problem back in highschool with the 89 grande marquis i was driving. The rupture was in a spot of the line that had been installed before the engine and other components were installed and was impossible to get to.  They had to route a whole new line from the source to the brakes to restore pressure. 

 

So to answer your question they can be a lot of trouble, sometimes