Asus Matrix GTX 980 & Water Cooling

[Shan-Dysigns]

This question is more along the lines of curiosity based upon researching several Asus video cards. I have read through the specs and watched several videos between the Asus Strix GTX 980, Asus Poseidon GTX 980, and Asus Matrix GTX 980 models. I notice the Poseidon provides the option to connect to your custom water loop, and the Martix seems to have its own closed cooling. Even though these cards carry their own method of water cooling, would there be any advantage (or would it even be possible) to remove their stock cooling and combine them with your custom water loop? I would imagine anything stock would not be as good as third party replacements, but again, all of this is for curiosity than actual implementation (unless the results would actually be beneficial).

 

Thanks in advance.

[Shan-Dysigns]

Did this thread get lost, or am I the only one interested in the Matrix card?

[Najuno]

This question is more along the lines of curiosity based upon researching several Asus video cards. I have read through the specs and watched several videos between the Asus Strix GTX 980, Asus Poseidon GTX 980, and Asus Matrix GTX 980 models. I notice the Poseidon provides the option to connect to your custom water loop, and the Martix seems to have its own closed cooling. Even though these cards carry their own method of water cooling, would there be any advantage (or would it even be possible) to remove their stock cooling and combine them with your custom water loop? I would imagine anything stock would not be as good as third party replacements, but again, all of this is for curiosity than actual implementation (unless the results would actually be beneficial).

 

Thanks in advance.

Alright just to satisfy your curiousity. The Asus GTX980 Poseidon is a hybrid design that works with air cooling out of the box. This card offers you a pre installed watercooling for the chip but this is just a hybrid and will never be as good as a real full cover waterblock. Personally for me this card is a waste of money, because if you alreday spend money on a custom loop why bother for a hybrid if you can get an EK full cover heatsink that works way better.

In terms of the Matrix, the Asus GTX980 Matrix is supposed to be the top dog of the RoG GPU series. Highest binned chip with best available air cooler. Honestly before I´d buy that card for a premium what a reference GTX980 costs (BTW OC potential could be worse, same or even be better) I´d go and buy an EVGA GTX980 Classified. Better PCB, better VRM and EVGA is for nVidia THE brand to go when removing heatsinks and OCing because they are superior with their customer service and overall card build quality. There is no full size waterblock available for the Asus GTX980 Matrix, only EK´s VGA Universal, for high OCing a dangerous thing because of the missing VRM and VRAM cooling.

 

http://www.coolingconfigurator.com/step1_complist

 

I hope that helps you a bit.

[Shan-Dysigns]

I hope that helps you a bit.

 

Thanks for replying.

I found the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487084&cm_re=geforce%2bgtx%2b980-_-14-487-084-_-Producta while back when I began my research. I would imagine this is the card you are referring. This card is actually on the top of my list for productivity, but I'm still fighting that battle between productivity and "what looks cool". That's a tricky place to be, but I'm beginning to get over all the shiny chrome from some of these ROG products and look to other slightly more productive components (not to put down ROG stuff). I'm still debating whether I want the Rampage V Extreme or the X99-E WS. I want so much to focus on work, but I'm also getting that twitch again for getting back into gaming. I also have to make sure I don't get stuck on the bandwagon of what is "cool" versus what would work best for my workflow. I keep thinking if I'm going to be spending thousands of dollars on this build, I want it to be flashy and productive - I just need to stop focusing on the flashy so much. I even wanted to go the route of building my own desk and putting all the components under tempered glass, but I can always do that later if that urge is still there. At first I wanted to stick with Asus as much as possible, but it does make perfect sense to go with the EVGA AND be able to use a FULL block to cool it. I'm not sure why no one is making a full block for the Matrix, but who knows.

 

Anyway, thanks for pushing me a little closer to the EVGA side. I kept thinking how stupid it would be to have a custom loop but skip the Matrix card (or just settle for incomplete cooling with the blocks available now).

[Najuno]

Thanks for replying.

I found the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487084&cm_re=geforce%2bgtx%2b980-_-14-487-084-_-Producta while back when I began my research. I would imagine this is the card you are referring. This card is actually on the top of my list for productivity, but I'm still fighting that battle between productivity and "what looks cool". That's a tricky place to be, but I'm beginning to get over all the shiny chrome from some of these ROG products and look to other slightly more productive components (not to put down ROG stuff). I'm still debating whether I want the Rampage V Extreme or the X99-E WS. I want so much to focus on work, but I'm also getting that twitch again for getting back into gaming. I also have to make sure I don't get stuck on the bandwagon of what is "cool" versus what would work best for my workflow. I keep thinking if I'm going to be spending thousands of dollars on this build, I want it to be flashy and productive - I just need to stop focusing on the flashy so much. I even wanted to go the route of building my own desk and putting all the components under tempered glass, but I can always do that later if that urge is still there. At first I wanted to stick with Asus as much as possible, but it does make perfect sense to go with the EVGA AND be able to use a FULL block to cool it. I'm not sure why no one is making a full block for the Matrix, but who knows.

 

Anyway, thanks for pushing me a little closer to the EVGA side. I kept thinking how stupid it would be to have a custom loop but skip the Matrix card (or just settle for incomplete cooling with the blocks available now).

No problem.

You can be productive with a Rampage V as well, it is just more optimized for gamers and OCing and the X99E WS is optimized for maximum productivity. I´m personally happy with my Asus X99 Deluxe though I have a 5930K to spare and I´m thinking about taking the Deluxe and the i7 5930K for my new entertainment system. I´ll probably be ending up with a Rampage V or an EVGA board.

EVGA is really a fine brand, some people want to make you believe you pay premium for the name but it IS a better brand. Alone that they have got a step up program to upgrade your GPU or that they still give you warranty on a GPU, where you removed the original heatsink and fried the chip, is incredible.

A custom loop, well you can surely debate if it is necessary, it is more expensive and so, but in terms of OCing, silence and looks it is unbeatable .

[Shan-Dysigns]

No problem.

You can be productive with a Rampage V as well, it is just more optimized for gamers and OCing and the X99E WS is optimized for maximum productivity.

 

One of the biggest differences I see is the X99 has more PCIe slots, but then I keep asking myself 'if I even go so far as to get 3 video cards, how many more slots do I actually need'. I may want a video capture device (I still do some video conversion now and then - VHS to digital). I have to leave room for a sound card (I still do audio mixing and may get into producing electronic dance music, so I want to keep that capability open). I may even want to use a monitor to watch TV (but I guess I would use an HDMI connection then, so a TV tuner card wouldn't be necessary after all). The main thing is I just don't want to run out of slots for all the random things I may start doing again now that I will have a more powerful system. I really did stop providing some services once my current machine began to slow down to a killing pace. I just don't know if there are "other" connections on these boards that might be more beneficial than PCIe slots. I wish I knew more about this side of computers, but I took the route long ago to the creative/programming side of computers.

 

What do you know about PCIe slots and what types of components that are out there that I might need/use for the work I do? If you don't know, I do a lot of graphic design/web development - would like to do more video editing, and certainly get more into music production. I need an in-house assistant to help me through this build because I'm going all out on this one (as I'm sure everyone says). I'm not scared to spend $10k, so I want to make sure I'm getting the good stuff.

[JustCallMeVlad]

No step up on classified cards

[Shan-Dysigns]

No step up on classified cards

What do you mean? As of now, my two choices are the Asus Matrix GTX 980 and the EVGA 04G-P4-3988-KR GeForce GTX 980. Aside from trying to stick with Asus, I don't know if 50MHz in core clock is enough to sway me to the EVGA. On the other hand, the fact the Matrix has its own stock cooling and there are no full-coverage water blocks for it (and there are for the EVGA), that one factor may be enough to make me stand in the EVGA line.

 

Edit: It's really hard to move forward on a build when I keep swaying on the most critical components. I'm set with the 5960x, I'm still swaying between the mobo's, and what I mentioned above with the video cards. My head will soon twist off my axis vertebra.

[Najuno]

One of the biggest differences I see is the X99 has more PCIe slots, but then I keep asking myself 'if I even go so far as to get 3 video cards, how many more slots do I actually need'. I may want a video capture device (I still do some video conversion now and then - VHS to digital). I have to leave room for a sound card (I still do audio mixing and may get into producing electronic dance music, so I want to keep that capability open). I may even want to use a monitor to watch TV (but I guess I would use an HDMI connection then, so a TV tuner card wouldn't be necessary after all). The main thing is I just don't want to run out of slots for all the random things I may start doing again now that I will have a more powerful system. I really did stop providing some services once my current machine began to slow down to a killing pace. I just don't know if there are "other" connections on these boards that might be more beneficial than PCIe slots. I wish I knew more about this side of computers, but I took the route long ago to the creative/programming side of computers.

 

What do you know about PCIe slots and what types of components that are out there that I might need/use for the work I do? If you don't know, I do a lot of graphic design/web development - would like to do more video editing, and certainly get more into music production. I need an in-house assistant to help me through this build because I'm going all out on this one (as I'm sure everyone says). I'm not scared to spend $10k, so I want to make sure I'm getting the good stuff.

Well first of all what Vlad means is that the video card from EVGA called Classified, which is in your case not the right choice, because it is made for extreme OverClockers, has no StepUp. And this makes sense all day long. To what would or could you step up? The Kingpin edition is not much more than a pimped up GTX980 Classified. And the next Titan will be significantly more expensive.

No what you would want is an EVGA GTX980SC with ACX 2.0.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487079&cm_re=evga_gtx980_acx-_-14-487-079-_-Product

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/25574/ex-blc-1844/EK_Geforce_GTX_980_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Nickel_EK-FC980_GTX_-_Nickel.html?tl=g57c613s2313

 

That´s a very potent card out of the box. Now watch out if you want to go for multiple GPUs like a 2way SLI or even a 3way SLI, then I´d go for reference design cards because they are the better choice for SLI because of their heatsink design. As a side not from a person that uses a 3way SLI... don´t do that. I am a benchmark whore through and through and I have chosen 3way as my GPU bracket. For gaming it improves your minimum FPS in 4K or is a great choice for a 1440p Surround (triple 1440p monitors) setup but other than that not really worth it performance wise.

 

Now to answer you question with you PCIe lanes and planning of the PC and with that  looking at your budget. You won´t need 10.000USD unless you want to buy a professional video editing card like a FirePro or a Quadro. You could wait a bit it is likely that nVidia will shortly release their next iteration of the Titan, based upon the GM200 chip. The GTX980 has just the GM204 performance chip on it. This would be a card for someone like you, that wants to do some professional work and do some gaming. If you get 2 of those bad boys 4K will become enjoyable with very high details. Though it should be mentioned that the rumor has it that the price tag will be 1400USD a piece, but it will have 50% more Maxwell Cuda cores than a GTX980. PCIe lanes are the connection between your CPU and integrated Northbridge in newer Intel based solutions and the cards you place on the mainboard. We are atm on the 3rd generation of PCI express and modern GPUs can make use of PCIe 3.0 16 lanes. Though the benefit to PCIe 2.0 16lanes (which equals bandwidth wise PCIe 3.0 8lanes) is very marginal by 2-5% performance wise and matters only if you are an OverClocker. That´s why it isn´t a problem to take 2 highend GPUs like 2 GTX980 and put them on a consumer grade chipset and motherboard like a Z97 borad in combination with an i7 4790K (4cores and 4 threads). The consumer grade CPUs from Intel (I won´t go in detail for AMD, too outdated) support natively 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes. So putting a GTX980 2way SLI on that motherboard means PCIe 3.0 8x or PCIe 2.0 16x bandwidth which is perfectly fine.

But is that all? No not yet . The X79 or X99 chipset from Intel allow you to go with CPUs that have more core and more threads AND come with more native PCIe lanes up to 40. Now you want to do professional work, then X99 is the right way to go IMHO for you, because you will get at least 6 cores / 12 threads and 28 PCIe lanes minimum which decreases rendering and editing time significantly and increases your possibilites in terms of additional PCIe cards. How you ask? Because a consumer grade CPU has only maximum 4 cores / 4 threads with 16 native PCIe lanes, which means, if you go for a 2way SLI, your bandwidth is used all up for the GPUs and unless you use a PCIe 1.0 Soundcard, which is handled by your mainboards Southbridge, and you can NOT add anything more, even if that motherboards has a third slot. Here comes X99 and makes it all right for enthusiasts or professionals. But if you buy the smallest X99 CPU the 5820K you will still have 6 cores / 12 threads but only 28 naitve PCIe lanes, but anyhow that´s 12 more than an i7 4790K has to offer and there fore you can add more cards. If you buy the 5930K you will have higher clocks out of the box and 40 native PCIe lanes. That supports 4way SLI/CF systems or allows you to add 2 graphics card, 1 video editing card and more. This is why a WS board makes so much sense, because of it´s sheer endless posibilities for professionals. And if you go for the top of the line CPU the i7 5960X you will not only have the benefit of those 40 lanes but also have an 8core / 16 threads monster  which is super fast for editing, rendering and any kind of professional work or highend benchmarking.

 

That´s quite a wall of text but you can send me a PM if you need help putting balanced system together that meets your needs and requirements. Other than than I hope I could help you again .

[Shan-Dysigns]

To begin, I wish you would have put a little effort into your response Kidding, I had to read it three times and break out my scientific calculator. I appreciate the time you took in responding. I have a few follow-ups.

 

 

No what you would want is an EVGA GTX980SC with ACX 2.0.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487079&cm_re=evga_gtx980_acx-_-14-487-079-_-Product

 

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/25574/ex-blc-1844/EK_Geforce_GTX_980_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_Block_-_Nickel_EK-FC980_GTX_-_Nickel.html?tl=g57c613s2313

That´s quite a wall of text but you can send me a PM if you need help putting balanced system together that meets your needs and requirements. Other than than I hope I could help you again .

 

What is the difference between the EVGA 04G-P4-3988-KR GeForce GTX 980 and the EVGA 04G-2983-KR GeForce GTX 980 that would make you recommend the latter? Unless I'm missing something, I thought the only difference was the higher core clock of the 3988. Are you saying the 3988 would benefit me less with video rendering, etc. than the other? Just asking because I don't know. Even if one is specific for OC'ers, wouldn't I still benefit (out of the box) with higher core clocks? What if I want to get into the OC'ing group later on? I just want to future-proof everything as much as possible even if I'm not using the full power of the component right out of the gate.

 

I will display my build log eventually, so hopefully you can help my dig through it when I'm at that point. I know just enough about some of this to be that annoying person who asks too many questions, but I would rather ask and be ignored than to not ask and get the wrong thing.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm choosing the EVGA over the Matrix now (especially seeing the full block for the EVGA). There are a few other components that I may wait on (to make sure nothing new is about to be released) before I start ordering parts. I doubt Windows 10 will affect much of what's on the market now, so I'm not going to wait on that release. I'm not going to wait on any possible future Titans. I'm going to stick with the GTX 980's for now and move forward. I would imagine 2 of them will hold me for a great deal of time.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[Shan-Dysigns]

Just so you don't miss this, here is what I'm looking at when comparing the numbers. If not the 3988 (since you said it was for OC'ers), what about the 2986?

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&Description=evga%20gtx%20980&bop=And&CompareItemList=-1|14-487-079^14-487-079-TS%2C14-487-089^14-487-089-TS%2C14-487-084^14-487-084-TS&percm=14-487-079%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-487-089%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-487-084%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24

[JustCallMeVlad]

I want a Kingpin

[Najuno]

Just so you don't miss this, here is what I'm looking at when comparing the numbers. If not the 3988 (since you said it was for OC'ers), what about the 2986?

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&Description=evga%20gtx%20980&bop=And&CompareItemList=-1|14-487-079^14-487-079-TS%2C14-487-089^14-487-089-TS%2C14-487-084^14-487-084-TS&percm=14-487-079%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-487-089%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24%3B14-487-084%3A%24%24%24%24%24%24%24

Okay the EVGA 04G-P4-3988-KR is the EVGA GTX980 Classified. This card offers top of the line VRM and PCB for extreme OverClockers BUT it isn´t the best choice for people that just seek good performance out of the box combined with nice OCing potential or even the possibility to put a water cooling heatsink on it. The Classified is made for extreme LN2 (liquid nitrogen) OCing, that´s why this comes with a much higher price tag of 700USD. But there is no specific water cooling heatsink available and so you would have the same 'issue' like you would have with the RoG Matrix from Asus.

 

The EVGA 04G-2983-KR is the EVGA GTX980SC ACX2.0 which comes with an awesome air cooling design out of the box and supports a standard PCB, that means it meets the stock requirements. That is a huge benfit if you want to put a water cooling heatsink on it, because the one I posted is the right one for this card. In your case if you want to go with a 2way SLI, which is BTW a beautiful choice, I would rather go and buy 2 reference design cards from EVGA.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487067&cm_re=evga_gtx980-_-14-487-067-_-Product

 

The standard heatsink does already an amazing job and Maxwell runs very cool and quiet and you do not blow hot warm air in your case or on the back of the 2nd card (which isn´t too good because thermal throttling under load can occure). The difference between the two (reference and ACX) is just the design of the heatsink but the PCB is the same.

In conclusion you can say if you go now with a 2way GTX980 SLI you will be set for a good long while because that´s some serious GPU raw horse power.

[Shan-Dysigns]

The EVGA 04G-2983-KR is the EVGA GTX980SC ACX2.0 which comes with an awesome air cooling design out of the box and supports a standard PCB, that means it meets the stock requirements. That is a huge benfit if you want to put a water cooling heatsink on it, because the one I posted is the right one for this card. In your case if you want to go with a 2way SLI, which is BTW a beautiful choice, I would rather go and buy 2 reference design cards from EVGA.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487067&cm_re=evga_gtx980-_-14-487-067-_-Product

One last question (I hope), and I guess I'm just stuck on the model numbers, but if the 3988 wouldn't be my option because of the liquid nitro (even though I heard there is a switch for 3 different uses [LN2, water loop, and I guess normal]), what about the EVGA 04G-P4-2986-KR GeForce GTX 980  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487089&cm_re=evga_gtx_980-_-14-487-089-_-Product?

 

I noticed that there are a TON of these various models that are out of stock, so that tells either EVGA is beyond excellent (and can't keep up), they are purposefully running out of stock to increase the demand, or they are just not properly predicting their supply/demand. It's maddening when one reads a component and thinks "that's the one" only to see that no one is carrying it (and no one can report possible future stocking).

 

WAIT! haha... I think I just answered my own question. While looking at the EK Cooling Configurator (which is where I noticed all the other model numbers that seem to be out of stock), I just now realized that you probably picked the 2983 because it appears to be the only current model that has a full block (although it says the 2988 full block is coming soon). I'm sure by the time I'm ready to order, all this crap will change...

[Najuno]

One last question (I hope), and I guess I'm just stuck on the model numbers, but if the 3988 wouldn't be my option because of the liquid nitro (even though I heard there is a switch for 3 different uses [LN2, water loop, and I guess normal]), what about the EVGA 04G-P4-2986-KR GeForce GTX 980  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487089&cm_re=evga_gtx_980-_-14-487-089-_-Product?

 

I noticed that there are a TON of these various models that are out of stock, so that tells either EVGA is beyond excellent (and can't keep up), they are purposefully running out of stock to increase the demand, or they are just not properly predicting their supply/demand. It's maddening when one reads a component and thinks "that's the one" only to see that no one is carrying it (and no one can report possible future stocking).

 

WAIT! haha... I think I just answered my own question. While looking at the EK Cooling Configurator (which is where I noticed all the other model numbers that seem to be out of stock), I just now realized that you probably picked the 2983 because it appears to be the only current model that has a full block (although it says the 2988 full block is coming soon). I'm sure by the time I'm ready to order, all this crap will change...

Seriously if you are not into hard OCing forget the Classified or Kingpin Editions. These cards come with triple BIOS out of the box because they want to give OverClockers the possibilities to go crazy. But like written before there's no full cover waterblock available and it remains to be seen if there ever will be, because the demand is probably not high enough.

 

The other one you posted is the FTW (ForTheWin) Edition. NOT the same as the reference, SC or SSC PCB but highest clock speed out of the box of the consumer grade cards and equipped with a backplate. But again, if you want to go with custom watercooling then you need a standard PCB. And EK offer their  own backplates in different colors . Anyways they look better. Backplate on a watercooled card is a good plan, because less dust, in case of leak it prevents to drip directly on the PCB and it stabilizes the card from sagging too much.

Other than that EVGA is most of the time low because they sell really good .

[Shan-Dysigns]

But again, if you want to go with custom watercooling then you need a standard PCB. And EK offer their  own backplates in different colors . Anyways they look better. Backplate on a watercooled card is a good plan, because less dust, in case of leak it prevents to drip directly on the PCB and it stabilizes the card from sagging too much.

 

I found this

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/25744/ex-blc-1870/EK_GeForce_980_GTX_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_RAM_Backplate_-_Blue_EK-FC980_GTX_Backplate_-_Blue.html?tl=g57c613s2313

which is what I will more than likely get because blue was going to be my color theme (everyone seems to be doing red). Maybe I can have it painted orange.

 

I also found this

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/25778/ex-blc-1888/EK_Terminal_Block_-_Dual_Serial_3-Slot_-_Plexi_EK-FC_Terminal_DUAL_Serial_3-Slot_-_Plexi.html

considering the EVGA 04G-2983-KR is the card I choose.

 

I wish someone would develop software to where as you choose each component, you see a 3D rendering of everything. Wouldn't that be something?

 

Thanks again for all your help.

[Najuno]

I found this

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/25744/ex-blc-1870/EK_GeForce_980_GTX_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_RAM_Backplate_-_Blue_EK-FC980_GTX_Backplate_-_Blue.html?tl=g57c613s2313

which is what I will more than likely get because blue was going to be my color theme (everyone seems to be doing red). Maybe I can have it painted orange.

 

I also found this

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/25778/ex-blc-1888/EK_Terminal_Block_-_Dual_Serial_3-Slot_-_Plexi_EK-FC_Terminal_DUAL_Serial_3-Slot_-_Plexi.html

considering the EVGA 04G-2983-KR is the card I choose.

 

I wish someone would develop software to where as you choose each component, you see a 3D rendering of everything. Wouldn't that be something?

 

Thanks again for all your help.

No problem you are welcome my pleasure to help you .