Need Help with Cooling in my Bitfenix Prodigy

[DylanD]

Hey everyone, 

 

I am planning to put together my first custom PC this Christmas, and have got the build pretty well fleshed out as far as the main components go.  But I am now trying to figure out a way to cool the system, and I have a few questions.  First, here is the build:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($248.98 @ SuperBiiz) 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($94.99 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Kingston Fury White Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($79.99 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($69.93 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($53.99 @ Directron) 

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card  ($356.13 @ Newegg) 

Case: BitFenix Prodigy (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case  ($79.98 @ OutletPC) 

Power Supply: XFX XTR 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($76.18 @ Newegg) 

Total: $1060.17

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-21 01:40 EST-0500

 

I have a couple layouts that I have been considering for this build.  One that I see often is an H100i cooling the Cpu with a 230mm in the front of the case and a 140mm in the back.  Also I have considered doing the same layout, but cooling the GPU using an NZXT G10 bracket to mount my H100i on it.  Also I have wondering if there was a way to cool both with an AIO maybe?  An H100i on one component and then an H55 or something similar cooling the other component and fill the rest in with fans.  Or possibly even running 2 120mm AIOs in the top each going to a component and then keeping a 230mm fan in the front for intake and a 140mm fan in the back for exhaust.  Does anyone know if any of these would fit? And if so, would the extra rad on the GPU make up for losing whichever fan has to be removed for it to fit?

 

Thanks, 

Dylan

[Faceman]

@DylanD

 

Hey DylandD! Welcome to the forum, please remember to follow your topics and to quote or "@" someone so they know you have replied.

 

    What is the purpose of this build?  Editing and rendering?  Gaming? What is your budget?  Does it absolutely have to be a small form factor?  Fitting one, let alone two AIOs is going to be really tricky. Also, I wouldn't recommend the H100i because it has a really bad problem with mounting and is not guaranteed to work for you out of the box without modification.  It also has a noisy pump and buggy software, just not a product I can recommend when so many people report issues with it. Also, the H100i is not compatible with the G10.  You really only need a 120mm AIO to properly cool your GPU, anything more than 120 and you start experiencing serious diminishing returns.  Use a 240mm for your CPU, and a 120mm for your GPU.

 

     It looks like you live in the U.S. because of the prices on PcP, might I recommend the Cooler Master Seidon 240M?  Its only $70 and performs the same as the H100i, minus the mounting problems, buggy software, and noisy pump.  Its a cooler I personally own, and it is fantastic, and quiet! 

 

    I have also done the G10 modification to my GTX 780, so I do run an AIO for both my CPU plus GPU.  I actually wrote this article that you might want to give a read:  How to Water Cooler a Single CPU + GPU for Under $200 USD Guide.  I think this is exactly what you're looking for.  My only concern is that you won't have enough room to do this in a BitFenix Prodigy.

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Wow awesome article man, this is exactly what I have been looking for!

 

The build will be used primarily for gaming, school work (computer science major), and some pretty heavy multitasking, with a small amount of graphic work.  Thats why I went with the Xeon, for the hyperthreading and since I do not plan on overclocking anyway.  For my budget I am hoping that I can be around $1,000 after taking into account Christmas prices and adding in the cooling, which I think is possible.  

 

With regards to the case, I am in love with the Prodigy.  It is one of the larger SFF cases and will work well for me because of its portability (carrying back and forth on holidays and other breaks) and it will fit well in my tiny dorm room.  

 

I have looked at dimensions very closely, but I just cant decide if it will fit.  The config I am thinking of doing is two 120mm AIOs in the top of the case with a big 230mm fan in the front for intake and a 140 for exhaust in the back. The Prodigy comfortably fits a 240mm rad in the top of its case, but would 2 120mm fit if I ran the hoses laterally toward to side panel of the case.  The length of a 120mm rad is 120 and the width is 140 so I almost think I could make it fit if I run the longer dimension perpendicular to the case (that may be really confusing). Maybe this will help

 

 

Based on that picture, I know that I could fit a 140 in the back while also having a 120mm AIO in the top. But if I removed the drive bay do you think I could fit another 120 AIO?  It almost looks like I could.  Then I would throw a 230mm in the front.  Lastly, do you think that my Xeon would be fine being cooled by a 120 rather than a 240?  They have been known to run cooler since they have no on board GPU, no OC, and less power consumption.

 

Also on your recommendation Ill look into the Cooler Masters and other AIOs.  The only thing is I loved the idea of Corsair Link being able to control all of my things in the case from fans to LEDs to pumps without getting in the case. Also the G10 says its compatible with the 970, but is that with the reference or would it work with the Asus model?    EDIT: Just looked closer at the G10. I didnt even see that it comes with a fan for VRAM/VRM so disregard that last question.

 

Thanks again for all the help so far.

 

Dylan

[Faceman]

@DylanD

Glad you like the guide!

Ok yea, a small form factor is going to be nice for you especially going back and forth from school. I want to mention a few things. First of all, whenever you travel, make sure to take your GPU out of the build and transport it separately. It's a good idea to keep the original packaging of all of your components, but especially your GPU packaging so you can safely transport it. Everything else should be fine to be left in during a car or plane ride.

The thing about the Prodigy.. while it is a small form factor case, it's on the bigger end of the spectrum. It's size rivals a mid ATX case more than an mATX case. I know you said you're in love with it, but I fear it is not the best case for your needs. It's in no man's land. Not really big enough for the ideal AIO layout, and not small enough for easy transport. EDIT*  Didn't realize you selected the ITX version of the Prodigy.  It is definitely a smaller case, but still not big enough to house two AIOs.

The Bitfenix Prodigy will only fit a 240mm radiator in the top.if you remove the drive bays. If you do go with a 240mm radiator, it will block you from using a radiator in the rear spot.  If you really want to go dual AIOs, I think the best option would be to remove the front bay.  Install a 120mm AIO for the CPU on the top, but closest to the front, and install a 120mm AIO in the rear exhaust for your GPU.

A Xeon doesn't need an expensive cooling solution because of those reasons you listed. You would even be fine on the stock heatsink. If you really want, Maybe a low profile air tower would be the best so that you can fit your GPU's AIO easily in the rear. I don't think a 120/120 setup would work because your only two locations without removing the drive bays are the rear and back most fan spot on the top. Running two radiators so cramped is probably not going to even fit. Maybe you can find something I didn't, but in my brief looking around, I couldn't find anyone running multiple AIOs in a Prodigy.

 

Have you considered:

Corsair 250D

Corsair 350D

Corsair Air 240

Cooler Master HAF Stacker 915R

Cooler Master HAF Stacker 915F

Fractal Design Arc Mini 2

Fractal Design Node

Bitfenix Colossus Mini

Aerocool Dead Silence Cube

Phanteks Enthoo Evolv

 

I haven't looked too deeply into any of these chassis', but they are highly recommended SFF cases, hopefully one or more can fit what you want.

Corsair Link sounds nice in theory, but it's a buggy mess. I would avoid it is possible. Everything you need to do can be controlled from your motherboard.  I'm also going to recommend an EVGA GPU.  EVGA allows you to water cool and do G10 mod to the GPU without voiding your warranty.  Not sure about Asus.  Also, the whole point of owning a Strix is for the cooler, but if you're going to water cool, no point in spending $20 extra for something you'll never use.  EVGA is an amazing company that stands behind their products.

[Faceman]

@DylanD

 

You could do the Air240 and have a setup like this:

 

 

The bottom front fan would be a 120mm radiator for your GPU.  This case looks really sexy in my opinion, and is a smaller form factor, while still fitting everything you need.

 

Here is my rough draft.

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/9Rc9yc
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/9Rc9yc/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($248.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Seidon 240M 86.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus H97M-E/CSM Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($92.99 @ Directron)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP600 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($53.59 @ Directron)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB ACX 2.0 Video Card  ($329.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Corsair Air 240 MicroATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill RNX-N180UBE 802.11b/g/n USB 2.0 Wi-Fi Adapter  ($12.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1066.49
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-21 19:17 EST-0500

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Awesome, ya I was looking around a bit and I dont think that an ITX will be able to fit the G10.  In all of the mini ITX cases I have seen, the mobo lies horizontally in the case and then the GPU mounts on the mobo very close to a side panel, so the G10 will not be able squeeze between them.  So maybe it would be better to go with another case.  I would rather have my 970 running well under safe levels, then to buy a case just because I want it.  Plus, you are right, the Prodigy's dimensions are very comparable to many of the mATX cases. So I will take a look at those cases you mentioned!  And for the GPU, that is a great point.  I would definitely like to save the extra cash!  Ill look into them and then post back. Im sure Ill have more questions

 

Thanks, 

Dylan

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Oh I didnt even see you had posted right when I did.  I had seriously considered the Air 240 but hadnt thought of a configuration that would fit, but I completely agree with you. This case is one of the best looking I have seen, plus the dual compartments in the case are amazing for cable management.  As for the build, is it not recommended to go with one stick of RAM? I had went with 1x8gb just in case I wanted to upgrade in the future.  Also that mobo must not have built in wifi?  Your build is already so much cheaper than mine was, thanks

 

Would you mind explaining why you have the 240mm rad pulling air into the case as well as the rest of the setup?  Wouldnt that just blow the hot air from the rad down onto my other components?  

 

EDIT:  Found this picture of an Air 240 with 2 AIOs in it right on the Corsair website.  http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/october/hg10a240_build_log  Looks like I might have to switch the two rads as the mobo may hinder a top 240?

[Faceman]

@DylanD

 

RAM runs better in dual channel mode, two sticks.  It runs just fine as a single stick, but it does run slightly better as two.  Also, this motherboard I selected has room for 4 sticks of RAM, so starting off with 8GB, taking up two slots, still gives you room for 16GB down the road.  8GB for gaming is more than enough.  Unless you are doing heavy content creation, then you wont be needing 16GB of RAM for a long time.  Yes, this motherboard doesn't have built-in wifi, but it is made by Asus, so its the best motherboard manufacturer.  Asus motherboards use some of the highest quality components, and most importantly, the included software with Asus motherboards is head and shoulders above the competition.  Especially Fan Xpert for controlling all of your fans.  I will forever buy Asus motherboards because of those features.  Adding in Wifi is simple.  You can either buy USB or PCI.  Motherboards that have built-in wifi are generally not that good.  The wifi that is.  You're much better off buying your own wifi expansion card or USB stick than going for a wifi motherboard.  Also, hopefully your dorm room has ethernet ports, because your internet will be 100x faster if its plugged in than if its through wifi.  Its good to have wifi if you need it, but if you have wired access, go for wired.

 

So having a 240mm radiator as intake is actually a good thing.  It sucks in cool air from outside the case which helps with the heat exchange.  The air coming out the other side is a little warm, but not bad at all.  It probably wont be warm at all considering you're running a Xeon.  I personally used to have that exact radiator on my 1.2v overclocked i5 set to exhaust on the top of my case.  The air that came out was slightly warm to the touch, but not hot.  When I set my radiator to intake, temperatures dropped by 1-2C because it was sucking in cold air from the outside.  Also, for this particular case, you need it to be intake otherwise the air pressure of the chassis will be negative, which will be a dust magnet.  You want positive air pressure.

 

This is not the same for a 120/140mm radiator.  Mainly because the surface area is not as large, so the heat exchange isn't as efficient, so the air coming out of the radiator is hot.  Also, when using a 120/140mm AIO on a GPU, that is a much hotter component than CPU.  You HAVE to set your GPU's radiator to exhaust, otherwise hot air will be blasting into the case.  It probably wont be so bad on a 970 because its TDP is only 165.  But on a 780 like I have with a TDP of 250W, the air that comes out of my radiator when I'm playing a game is hot. 

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Oh shoot ya I forgot you switched the board to mATX so it has 4 slots now.  Thats perfect then.  I may look for some ram that is white and also buy the white G10 and the black Air 240 and then run some white LEDs and fans in the case.  That plus the white on the CPU mount of the Seidon will look nice I think

 

Thanks for the explanation on the rads.  It makes much more sense now.  So if done right, it sounds like my system should be running unnecessarily cool which is exactly how I want it.  If you saw the picture that I posted in the edit of my previous post, do you think it would work better to use the 240 to cool my GPU and the 120 to cool my CPU?  Would that give me overall more cooling since my Xeon wont need very much and GPUs tend to respond better to water cooling anyway? 

[Faceman]

@Faceman

 

Oh shoot ya I forgot you switched the board to mATX so it has 4 slots now.  Thats perfect then.  I may look for some ram that is white and also buy the white G10 and the black Air 240 and then run some white LEDs and fans in the case.  That plus the white on the CPU mount of the Seidon will look nice I think

 

Thanks for the explanation on the rads.  It makes much more sense now.  So if done right, it sounds like my system should be running unnecessarily cool which is exactly how I want it.  If you saw the picture that I posted in the edit of my previous post, do you think it would work better to use the 240 to cool my GPU and the 120 to cool my CPU?  Would that give me overall more cooling since my Xeon wont need very much and GPUs tend to respond better to water cooling anyway? 

The Seidon 240M has a blue LED.  The Nepton 240M or 280L have white LEDs.  If you can afford the Nepton 240M($99) by all means, go for it!  That will look really nice, I love white and black contrast builds.  Also the motherboard I selected is kinda a grey metallic silvery color so it should blend in well.

 

Hmm.. that is a toss up.  CPUs tend to need 240mm AIOs because their heat transfer is just so much more, but a Xeon probably won't put out that much heat at all, especially not overclocked and at stock.  Thing is about GPUs, after 120mm, the diminishing returns hit hard.  Comparing a 120mm H55 to an X61 on the same GPU(780Ti) running Unigine Heaven for 15minutes, the X61 was only 7C lower than the H55.  The H55 already brings down 780Ti temps to a max of 55C once fully overclocked on stock BIOS, so these things are already running super frosty.  Pair that with a 970 with only a TDP of 165, and it even further confuses things.  You can't go wrong either way as they will both perform incredibly well given your circumstances.

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Alright ya those temps sound great.  I will consider that cooler maybe if the price comes down any on BF or CM if not then I may just try to do light blue in the case.  Either way it will be fine.  

 

Ok ya I will just see what works out.  I will probably still try to do the 240 on the CPU and the 120 on the GPU unless the arrangement of the rads wont let that work.  Did you see the link that I edited into my post two posts ago?  This site(http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/october/hg10a240_build_log) has an Air 240 using 2 AIOs for cooling and it looks like the only option is to throw the 240 on the front and the 120 on top. In that config they have the 240 on the GPU.  Im not sure if the 120 would be able to reach down to the GPU in that configuration.  If I had to go with the configuration thats on the site would I still draw air in with the 240 in the front and then exhaust both 120s out the top and then intake with the 80s on the back?  Should I use the bottom fan slots?

[PrAwKsee]

I have a Bitfenix Prodigy build and after living with it for a while now I'll try to help make your setup at least better than mine. I have my components down below.

 

My Prodigy has an H100i intaking air from the top with a 240mm front intake and 140mm rear exhaust. My first recommendation is if you are not going with a blower style cooler make sure you have something else to exhaust heat from your graphics card other than the 140mm in the rear. That is definitely not enough to expel all the heat from the gpu while gaming and depending on your fan curves and temps your gpu can ramp up very loudly.

 

I recommend exhausting out the rear and off the top with a large intake fan in the front with the mesh. If you can, I would get a blower style cooler just so hot air from the gpu won't get recirculated into your computer. 

 

Also stay away from 2.5 slot coolers on the gpu as the side panel gets very close and your card ends up suffocating a little bit even with the holes.

 

Hope this helps.

[Faceman]

@DylanD

 

I'm heading out for the night, but I can answer your questions later.

[DylanD]

@PrAwKsee

 

I have heard about some problems with the heat of the GPU in the Prodigy like you said being pressed up right against the side panel like it is.  Thanks for the pointers!

 

@Faceman

 

Sounds good, thanks so much for the help so far!  Looking forward to hearing back. 

[Faceman]

@Faceman

 

Alright ya those temps sound great.  I will consider that cooler maybe if the price comes down any on BF or CM if not then I may just try to do light blue in the case.  Either way it will be fine.  

 

Ok ya I will just see what works out.  I will probably still try to do the 240 on the CPU and the 120 on the GPU unless the arrangement of the rads wont let that work.  Did you see the link that I edited into my post two posts ago?  This site(http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/october/hg10a240_build_log) has an Air 240 using 2 AIOs for cooling and it looks like the only option is to throw the 240 on the front and the 120 on top. In that config they have the 240 on the GPU.  Im not sure if the 120 would be able to reach down to the GPU in that configuration.  If I had to go with the configuration thats on the site would I still draw air in with the 240 in the front and then exhaust both 120s out the top and then intake with the 80s on the back?  Should I use the bottom fan slots?

 

One thing to keep in mind, is that not every AIO is compatible with the G10, only a certain few.  So check for compatibility before buying anything.  The Cooler Master AIOs will not work with the G10. 

 

Yea, the Air240 definitely sounds like a better option, especially given what the other guy has said about airflow, and overall room inside the case.  It does look like it would be tough to reach from the top to the GPU with an AIO.  You might have to buy an NZXT AIO for their long tube length.  The X31 is what I use.  If the top of the case can fit 140mm AIOs, go for the X41 for your GPU.

 

I just found this deal on a 240mm AIO.  Not from one of the major brands, but still a good option for cheap.  Antec Kuhler 1250 - $55.  Thats an incredible price for a 240mm AIO.

 

So, get whatever 240mm AIO you like, put it in the front of the Air 240 as intake.  Then get either an NZXT X31 or X41 and place it on the top as exhaust. You should also get another 120 or 140mm fan as an exhaust fan to help extract the air within the case.  Use the two 80mm fan spots as intake to help cool the VRAM and VRMs, this will also help with positive air pressure.  Definitely use the bottom fan slots if you can get the case lifted up off the ground some.  Otherwise they will be suffocated and wont be sucking in an cool air.

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Oh I didnt know that, thanks for the heads up!  I will probably go with the X31 then because the case only supports 120 fans.  As for that Antec, That looks good and that price is incredible but it looks like the fans are integrated into that rad, so would they be able to be be set to intake air?

 

So for that setup what should I have the bottom fans do?  i would have the 240 intaking in the front, a 120 AOI and a 120 fan both exhausting out the top, two 80s in the back for intake and then what on the bottom?  I could put 2 fans intaking, but if I did that would it effect the cooling of my GPU?  Because if the fan part of the G10 bracket is trying to blow the heat down out of the VRAM of my GPU, then a fan intaking right underneath it would just blow the air back up onto the GPU right?

[Faceman]

@Faceman

 

Oh I didnt know that, thanks for the heads up!  I will probably go with the X31 then because the case only supports 120 fans.  As for that Antec, That looks good and that price is incredible but it looks like the fans are integrated into that rad, so would they be able to be be set to intake air?

 

So for that setup what should I have the bottom fans do?  i would have the 240 intaking in the front, a 120 AOI and a 120 fan both exhausting out the top, two 80s in the back for intake and then what on the bottom?  I could put 2 fans intaking, but if I did that would it effect the cooling of my GPU?  Because if the fan part of the G10 bracket is trying to blow the heat down out of the VRAM of my GPU, then a fan intaking right underneath it would just blow the air back up onto the GPU right?

Ahh, youre right about the antec, you can't change the fans direction, or even change the fans at all.  Because you need the fans to be a specific direction, don't get the Antec.

 

The fan on the G10 is blowing onto the GPU, not away from it.  This is very important when you set up your G10.  Make sure the 92mm fan is blowing onto your GPU.

 

We need to rethink a few things.  I'm reading another review of the Air 240, and this is an excerpt from the review:

 

"Motherboards of up to Micro-ATX size can be installed in the Carbide Air 240, but there is a catch: if you do install a Micro-ATX motherboard, you cannot install a liquid cooling radiator at the bottom of the case. You also cannot really install one at the top panel either, since the fan alone is just a hair away from the top of the motherboard. Therefore, you basically need to choose between two GPUs and a Micro-ATX motherboard, or two large liquid cooling radiators and a Mini-ITX motherboard (presumably with one GPU)."

-Full Review

 

I think it is in your best interest to go mini ITX to give you as much room as possible to work inside your case.  I don't think you planned on going SLI anyways.  If you did, you would be getting a bigger chassis.  Unless if you are perfectly fine with running a 240mm as front intake.  I just think it will look kinda weird because your AIO tubing will criss cross, as seen below.  The purple is the tubing for the 240mm AIO to your CPU and the green is the tubing for your 120mm AIO to your GPU.  See how they will criss cross.  Nothing is wrong with it, it wont impact performance at all, it will just look unorganized in my opinion.  This is a beautiful case, and you are spending a lot of money, this is not budget build, so if you have the time and are willing, make it look as professional as possible.

 

Also remember that you can orient this case in a few different ways.  flat or vertical, giving you more options to consider when it comes to airflow.  You probably can't say for sure how you will orient the case because you don't know where in your dorm room you will put it?

 

Also, what is your overall budget, including cooling?  I am thinking it will be in your best interest to get an unlocked i7 from the start, and then add in aftermarket cooling as you get more money.  A Xeon is great and all, but an i7 is only a little bit more expensive, and will give you much better all around performance, especially in gaming.  Most games don't really benefit from overclocking, but the ones that do, they REALLY benefit from a strong OC.  Do you live near a Microcenter by chance?  If so, definitely buy your CPU + motherboard in-store for massive discounts.

 

I'm looking at ITX motherboards, and the main problem I keep running into is the small amount of fan headers.  You are going to need at least 3, including the CPU, and that is taking into account PWM splitters.  I want to get on the same page as you before making any more recommendations.  I can't find an appropriately priced ITX motherboard that has 3 fan headers, and maybe you don't even want ITX and are ok with criss crossing tubing. I dunno. Let me know what you think.  Read more reviews on the Air 240.

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Alrighty thats a lot of info So for the problem with the layout, I am not opposed to going ITX, the only problem was that most ITX boards seem to be quite expensive to get what I need like you have kind of pointed out.  If I were going to go with the Air 240 then I would probably want to go ITX to make that layout inside look nice.  If not then maybe I should look into another case?

 

For the budget, I would really like to be at $1,000 dollars or less after everything is added up.  If Im over that by some then I will be fine, but that is really what I am shooting for.  Thats why I was going with the Xeon, saves me about $50 and I dont really need the few extras that an i7 offers.  Unfortunately the nearest Microcenter is like 3 hours away from me otherwise I probably could go with an i7 as I have seen them incredibly cheap on their site.

[Faceman]

@DylanD

Even with your current plan of going with a Xeon, you're going to end up being closer to $1,200 after water cooling everything. Which is why I recommend spending your money on core components and adding water cooling as you see fit. Its much better to get incredibly strong core components that will last 1-2 longer than a Xeon, as well as perform better from day one.

It sounds like you're not completely dedicated to the small form factor either. Yes, its a convenient thing for travel, but it puts you st a disadvantage elsewhere in your build. It sounds like you have a good budget that is flexible, which means your options are wide open. If you are willing to sacrifice easy transportation for a nicer chassis, then you have a lot more to work with.

Might I recommend the Phanteks Enthoo Pro, or Enthoo Luxe. Pair it with a Z97 Motherboard and i7-4790k. It will probably end up costing around $1,100 without water cooling, but your computer will be so much stronger, last longer, and you can always add water cooling at any time easily and inexpensively.

Its all up to you, I will help you no matter what you choose. I just think it makes more sense to invest in core components before water cooling. Cooling can be added at any time, but components are harder to switch in and out, while costing more.

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Hmm, you are making me think.  The only reason that I want to go with water cooling is to keep my components extra cool.  Some builds that I have looked at say they are just air cooling their system and hitting temps like 80c on the CPU/GPU, and even though that may be within the specs that Intel or the GPU manufacturer recommends, it does not sound acceptable to me. Consistently running components at 80c has to eventually cause unnecessary wear and quicker destruction of the parts.  I want my components to last as long as possible and I think that one of the best ways to do that is keeping them cool if Im not mistaken? 

 

You do make a very good point though.  Is it possible to achieve close to those frosty temps we have talked about with air cooling components that could save me money? If it is then I would be much more open to dropping the water cooling for now.  Especially since prices for the i7 have dropped below $300 already and it isnt even BF/CM yet.  

 

Also for the case dilemma, I would prefer to have a case that is smallish.  It doesnt have to be strictly ITX or mATX.  The sizes seem to vary a lot in each different category anyway.  But having something that is relatively small like the Prodigy size or a little bigger would be ideal.  I will check out those cases now as well

 

I really appreciate your willingness to help me, so thank you very much. You have been incredibly insightful.

[Faceman]

@Faceman

 

Hmm, you are making me think.  The only reason that I want to go with water cooling is to keep my components extra cool.  Some builds that I have looked at say they are just air cooling their system and hitting temps like 80c on the CPU/GPU, and even though that may be within the specs that Intel or the GPU manufacturer recommends, it does not sound acceptable to me. Consistently running components at 80c has to eventually cause unnecessary wear and quicker destruction of the parts.  I want my components to last as long as possible and I think that one of the best ways to do that is keeping them cool if Im not mistaken? 

 

You do make a very good point though.  Is it possible to achieve close to those frosty temps we have talked about with air cooling components that could save me money? If it is then I would be much more open to dropping the water cooling for now.  Especially since prices for the i7 have dropped below $300 already and it isnt even BF/CM yet.  

 

Also for the case dilemma, I would prefer to have a case that is smallish.  It doesnt have to be strictly ITX or mATX.  The sizes seem to vary a lot in each different category anyway.  But having something that is relatively small like the Prodigy size or a little bigger would be ideal.  I will check out those cases now as well

 

I really appreciate your willingness to help me, so thank you very much. You have been incredibly insightful.

Those 80C temps for CPU are only during stress tests, which is not realistic in any application you would actually use.  The closest thing you would come to a stress test is video editing and rendering, and an i7-4790k at stock 4.4Ghz, on a stock cooler will do around 65-70C.  Anything below 85C is perfectly fine for 24/7 use.  You will be able to hit any overclock you want on a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO, a $30 cooler.  The difference being what temperatures you get in your games.  Nothing is unsafe, or unattainable on a $30 air cooler.  Its not like your games will run better when you're playing them at 45C compared to 70C.  Some stress tests are unsafe on a $30 air cooler, but some stress tests are just fine.  You will hit the limit of your chip before you hit a temperature limit 90% of the time.  I used to have the Cooler Master 212 EVO, and it performs very well.  Its much better to buy the best components you can buy to start, and then add cooling later.

 

GPU temps hitting 80C is possible on GTX780s and R9 290s, but not on a 970.  Its a 165TDP component and you will probably get max temps in the 60s while gaming, which is extraordinary.  Even those who have done the G10 modification to their 970s are getting max temps in the 40s.  Which is fantastic for your GPU to be running that cool, and you definitely get a lot more overclocking headroom, especially on a 970.  Running a 970 on air is perfectly fine, and you will probably be able to hit 1300-1400Mhz OCs on air and still be in the high 60s, low 70s. 

 

For GPU and CPU, anything above 85C is not acceptable, but below 85C is perfectly fine and won't cause any damage or shorten lifespan.  If you want to get the most out of your components, buy the best possible components.  Having an i7 as opposed to a Xeon should give you a longer useful life of the component because if performance starts to become less than what you're used to, or what games require, all it takes is a quick OC and you just extended the useful life of your processor.  You can't do that on a Xeon, and a Xeon isn't nearly as good for gaming as an i7.  The i7 comes in stock at 4.4Ghz!  Xeon is like 3.2Ghz.  An i7 will perform much better from day one, as well as last you longer in the long term.  Even if that means going with air cooling to start, and adding water cooling later.  You will get the performance and the cool temperatures, you just have to space out your upgrades. 

 

I think you will find that even on air cooling, your temperatures are very good, and it doesn't hinder performance at all.  That is what I did.  I only had a set amount of money, and I knew I wanted an i5 and GTX780.  But back when I was building my computer, I knew I would have to cut corners elsewhere in my build, and upgrade as I got more money.  For me, that meant going with a cheap case, cheap PSU, and air cooling.  As I got more money, I made upgrades.  It took me 6 months since I initially bought all of my components to make all the upgrades I wanted, and I couldn't be happier with how I did it.

 

The cases I recommended are full tower cases, so they are very big.  But the amount of features that they provide for the money is unbeatable.  One other case I would look at which is supposed to be smaller, but from the same company is called the Phanteks Enthoo Evolv.  I'm not sure if its out yet in the U.S., but it has a lot of the same features, incredible build quality, and smaller form factor.  I'm sure we will be able to find a case that is right for you.  I think the Air 240 is still an excellent choice, I love the look of it, and we will be able to make it all fit, just need to plan it out right.

 

I'm happy to help you, and I love helping.  I want you to be fully aware of everything, and to come away with the best possible components for your money.

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Alright that sounds good!  I will go with air cooling for now then as well as an i7 and z97. I really was never planning on OCing anything, but I never really thought about how you said it.  Its good to have the option, and if performance starts to slip some then I will have that headroom to just OC the CPU some and bring it back up to par.  I started throwing together a new build after the last post you made about switching components.  Here is what I have so far:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($299.98 @ NCIX US) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($26.92 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($77.27 @ TigerDirect) 

Memory: Kingston Fury White Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($79.99 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($59.99 @ Amazon) 

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($48.77 @ OutletPC) 

Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB ACX 2.0 Video Card  ($329.99 @ NCIX US) 

Case: Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($98.98 @ Directron) 

Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($44.99 @ NCIX US) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($82.79 @ OutletPC) 

Wireless Network Adapter: TRENDnet TEW-805UB 802.11a/b/g/n/ac USB 3.0 Wi-Fi Adapter  ($25.92 @ Amazon) 

Total: $1175.59

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-24 01:24 EST-0500

 

I tried the Air 240 for a case, but there isnt enough clearance for a normal sized CPU cooler so I switched to one that would fit while still being a smaller tower.  Seems to be a pretty nice case from reviews and things that I have seen, and it still has a window so I can try to make it look nice inside  It looks like the price of the case has gone up since I added it to the build, so its $100 now.  It was like 70-80 when I added it earlier.  I will get a backup incase it doesnt go on sale because I really dont want to spend that much on a case. 

 

I really am new to all of this, so Im glad that you are filling me in on how a lot of it works.  There is only so much you can learn by reading reviews, so its good to have help from some who has done it.  Anyway how does that build look for a start?

[Faceman]

@DylanD

 

This build looks so much better, and I'm really loving that case.  It is a great size for you, while looking fantastic and having all the room possible for future upgrades.  The only change I want to make is to the RAM.  $80 is a lot of RAM.  We can get your some much better, 2133Mhz, 9CL RAM for only $65.  Its blue, compared to white, so if you're ok with a blue/black/white themed build, then definitely go for this RAM I selected.  This computer will perform so much better from day one, as well as being upgrade-ready for the future, and last longer because you can OC it in the future if you find performance lacking.

 

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qcJsjX
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qcJsjX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($299.98 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($26.92 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($77.27 @ TigerDirect)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory  ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($48.77 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 4GB ACX 2.0 Video Card  ($329.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($98.98 @ Directron)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($44.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($82.79 @ OutletPC)
Wireless Network Adapter: TRENDnet TEW-805UB 802.11a/b/g/n/ac USB 3.0 Wi-Fi Adapter  ($25.92 @ Amazon)
Total: $1160.59
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-24 03:14 EST-0500

 

One thing I don't know anything about is wireless network adapter.  I think there might be some less expensive options, or PCI options. I just don't know anything about it.

 

Reading reviews are always good.  Its always a good idea to do research and develop your own opinions about a product.  Yea, reviews can only help so much, but its always good to read many reviews on the same product because you need to see different opinions, and different people's thoughts on a product.  Maybe someone brings up something the other guy didn't cover.

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

Alright cool, Im glad to hear that.  I like the case a lot too. Im just hoping maybe itll come on sale for at least a little off As for the RAM, ya I saw that there were a lot better options, and just threw that one on there because it is white.  I will keep an eye on the price of it and if it doesnt drop I will switch to some other cheaper stuff.  The Ripjaw RAM is so cheap for such good RAM, but I just want to try to stick to black and white, so maybe I will just try to find some black stuff if the white doesnt drop any.  

 

Ya I really dont know anything about wireless adapters either.  I just added that because it was decently priced and connected through USB 3.0 but I will have a look later on today and see what some of the advantages and disadvantages are for different options. 

 

Ya I think that I will like this build better.  It has a lot of headroom for if I want to spend a little more money to upgrade, and even gives me options that I dont have to spend money to improve performance.  

[DylanD]

@Faceman

 

So it sounds like we have my build pretty fleshed out for now.  If you think of anything more, feel free to let me know Thanks for the help!

 

Im also going to be building a rig for my girlfriend this Christmas as her laptop is on its deathbed.  I have a build pretty set I think, but do you mind taking a look?

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($97.27 @ NCIX US) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($26.92 @ OutletPC) 

Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($61.99 @ Newegg) 

Memory: G.Skill Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($57.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($48.49 @ OutletPC) 

Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($41.99 @ Directron) 

Power Supply: Antec EarthWatts Green 380W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($29.99 @ Newegg) 

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  ($16.98 @ OutletPC) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)  ($88.98 @ OutletPC) 

Monitor: Acer S220HQLAbd 21.5" Monitor  ($99.99 @ Amazon) 

Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill RNX-N180UBE 802.11b/g/n USB 2.0 Wi-Fi Adapter  ($12.99 @ Amazon) 

Case Fan: Cooler Master Blade Master 76.8 CFM 120mm  Fan  ($9.62 @ Amazon) 

Case Fan: Cooler Master Blade Master 76.8 CFM 120mm  Fan  ($9.62 @ Amazon) 

Case Fan: Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK 82.1 CFM 140mm  Fan  ($9.99 @ Newegg) 

Keyboard: Logitech Wireless Combo MK270 Wireless Standard Keyboard w/Optical Mouse  ($19.99 @ Amazon) 

Speakers: Logitech Z130 5W 2ch Speakers  ($18.02 @ Amazon) 

Total: $650.82

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-24 18:46 EST-0500

 

I was originally going to go AMD for the processor but then I saw a few builds and reviews that brought the i3 to my attention.  She will be doing mainly regular tasks like browsing, Youtube, Microsoft office, and some hobbyist image editing.  How does that look?  She wanted to be at $650 with everything included.