Audio setup off of MSI z97 G45

[cooljoe30]

Hi guys,

 

I'm finally ordering my new gaming rig and i want to take a stab at tailoring my new audio setup. As of now this is more or less all i know:

Basics:

Pre-amp takes all your digital(or otherwise) inputs and converts them to analog.

Amp amplifies the signal so it can be used by speakers.

Speakers take said analog signal and plays music etc.

 

There are many general things that I think that I may have figured out but i may be wrong. Here is one of them:

It is safer(for the amp) to slightly over power than significantly underpower speakers.

 

Anyway I'm looking to eventually have an entire 7.1 setup based of off this MOBO:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130771

 

Should I use the existing analog outs or use a DAC with a coaxial/optical?

 

At this point i am trying to keep cost low so i think ill start with a simple stereo running of off the analog FR FL on the board.

 

Amp:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003OELGGG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I2JJ3FF3JL465T

Speakers:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IUIV4A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I22KR2XMPULOD3

 

Let me know what you guys think. Share some first timer mistakes you made.

 

[creatip123]

Hi guys,

 

I'm finally ordering my new gaming rig and i want to take a stab at tailoring my new audio setup. As of now this is more or less all i know:

Basics:

Pre-amp takes all your digital(or otherwise) inputs and converts them to analog.

Amp amplifies the signal so it can be used by speakers.

Speakers take said analog signal and plays music etc.

 

There are many general things that I think that I may have figured out but i may be wrong. Here is one of them:

It is safer(for the amp) to slightly over power than significantly underpower speakers.

 

Anyway I'm looking to eventually have an entire 7.1 setup based of off this MOBO:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130771

 

Should I use the existing analog outs or use a DAC with a coaxial/optical?

 

At this point i am trying to keep cost low so i think ill start with a simple stereo running of off the analog FR FL on the board.

 

Amp:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003OELGGG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I2JJ3FF3JL465T

Speakers:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IUIV4A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I22KR2XMPULOD3

 

Let me know what you guys think. Share some first timer mistakes you made.

 

Only the 1st point: converting a digital signal into an analog one is the job of a DAC circuit, not a pre-amp. However, most DAC circuits already got a pre-amp circuit/component integrated, to prep the signal ready to be processed by the amp.

 

From pre-amp-amp point of view, the correct names should be: pre-amp, power-amp. From what I understand, pre-amp 'pump up' the voltage, but lack of current. This signal is then sent to a power amp, and the power amp's job is to supply the needed current. So altogether, the speakers would get the correct amount of voltage + current they need to function properly. That's why, in pre-amp - power-amp setup, the volume knob is usually located in the pre-amp unit, like in this picture (because more voltage = louder, more or less):

 

The top unit is the pre-amp, the bottom is the power amp

 

In theory, this setup could minimize the amount of interference noises from long cables, by putting the pre-amp near the signal source, and the power-amp near the speakers. There are a lot of integrated units though, packaging the pre-amp and power amp in 1 box, for more personal uses (where it doesn't need that long of cables, thus minimal interference)

 

There are 2 paths to (eventually) get that 7.1 setup you want:

 

- Insta-path

Just get a 'ready-to-use' 7.1 setup, such as: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Surround-Sound-Speakers-Z506/dp/B003VAK1FA/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1411401282&sr=1-5&keywords=7.1+surround+speakers (never used this set, so I don't know if it's good or not). Plus point is, unbox, plug everything to your mobo, profit. Minus point, you might be able to get better sounds with the second path

 

- step-by-step path

Get all the devices needed, manually, which for 7.1, should be:

- 1 pair of front speakers

- 1 pair of side speakers

- 1 pair of rear speakers

- 1 center speaker

- 1 subwoofer

- AV receiver capable of 7.1 output setup

Plus point is, you can potentially get a better sounding setup compared to the first option, and if your budget isn't enough to buy all at once, you can start off with the front speakers fist, then add the center and sub, then eventually get the others. Minus point is, most probably will cost more, and a bit more work (setting up cables, configuring the AV, etc)

[Ian_Balisy]

I would personally advise against a plug-and-play style surround system as they are usually very low quality amplifier/speaker sets. The only plus for them is that you don't have to put any work or thought into them. I would also advise against using that (or any) motherboard for surround sound anything as the audio components on motherboards (unless they're the most expensive you can get) is not good. You can use the digital outputs on the motherboard to send audio to a preamp/power amp combo or receiver, but Realtek does not really contain enough support for high quality codecs and movie viewing or surround game playing.

 

I would suggest going for the second option creatip123 mentioned: put a surround system together yourself. I am a huge supporter of Denon receivers and am using one for my home theater setup. I also always suggest people check out Dayton Audio speakers if they're on a budget. I'm currently using the B652 pair for a simple stereo setup for my computer and they outperform a much more expensive pair of Polk Audio speakers I had before and are very solidly built (rather utilitarian in design). They are very neutral in sound, if just a little lacking in high frequency detail (which will usually sound harsh anyways in cheaper tweeters), excellent mids that perform very well for string instruments and vocals/dialogue. You could pick up three pairs of these for ~$115 and a center and sub for less than $100.

 

I think it's an excellent point that you can start with a stereo setup and expand as budget allows, since you will be happier with your setup than if you were to just buy a set of surround sound "computer speakers". I think creatip123 missed a key component, however; that is, the sound card. If you run a receiver setup, Realtek's digital output will probably not be the best for games or movies as it's codec support is not very expansive and will leave you wanting. I personally used an ASUS Xonar D2X and it was fantastic for everything, it had excellent digital support, a good headphone amp (though not when compared to standalone DAC/headphone amp setups of course) and much better signal to noise ratio than onboard audio. In a blind listening test, my girlfriend was immediately able to identify the shortcomings of the onboard audio when compared to the D2X. There are also cheaper options from ASUS, which is really the only good option for soundcards right now.

 

The point is really that you should not go with a plug-and-play system as they just don't sound good and the quality is not remotely worth the money. On a budget, it's still worth saving up and starting with a stereo or 2.1 system with a good sound card and receiver and build up to your 7.1 goal. The added headphone support you get with sound cards is just a bonus. I would advise against the preamp/power amp setup for a computer audio system (even if used as a home theater as well) since you would need a good DAC, multichannel preamp and up to four power amps to drive all your speakers and this really doesn't make sense to me unless you're looking to spend upwards of $400 on each pair of speakers and $700+ on the sub, etc. as it simply won't outperform a good receiver/sound card system at the same price point. Hope this helps.

 

Edit: Also, Onkyo makes some good inexpensive receivers that can make this kind of a system more budget friendly.

[cooljoe30]

Thanks man.

Keep dropping that trivia

 How will these do for general music movies and gaming?

 

At this point i am trying to keep cost low so i think ill start with a simple stereo running of off the analog FR FL on the board.

 

Amp:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003OELGGG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I2JJ3FF3JL465T

Speakers:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IUIV4A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I22KR2XMPULOD3

 

I read something about head room for spikes(explosions jumpscares etc.). Will i end up frying these speakers?

[Ian_Balisy]

Thanks man.

Keep dropping that trivia

 How will these do for general music movies and gaming?

 

I read something about head room for spikes(explosions jumpscares etc.). Will i end up frying these speakers?

 

For relatively cheap speakers, such as those Miccas or the Dayton Audios I suggested, you aren't really going to run into problems with headroom as frequently as you will notice the inherent harshness and sibilance of cheaper tweeters. At the price for those Micca speakers, I would (again) suggest that the Dayton Audio B652 Air's (brand new model with a much higher quality tweeter) will outperform them.

 

As for the Pyle amp, I think that's a reasonable choice for the price even though I'm a bit of a snob in that I usually advise against amps with EQ as it generally means that the components haven't been chosen based on listening tests (which are very expensive and time consuming) and the manufacturer is trying to hide the shortcomings by allowing you to boost the frequency range you like to hear the most (i.e. if you're a basehead or you really like vocals and dialogue to shine). Still, for the price it seems like a good option.

 

Keep in mind, that this Onkyo 7.1 receiver is only ~$60 more and will allow for future surround expansion. (I realize that it's a discontinued model, but you can find very good deals on used Onkyo and Denon receivers online if you're willing to do a little bit of research into which models are the most reliable.)

[cooljoe30]

I would personally advise against a plug-and-play style surround system as they are usually very low quality amplifier/speaker sets. The only plus for them is that you don't have to put any work or thought into them. I would also advise against using that (or any) motherboard for surround sound anything as the audio components on motherboards (unless they're the most expensive you can get) is not good. You can use the digital outputs on the motherboard to send audio to a preamp/power amp combo or receiver, but Realtek does not really contain enough support for high quality codecs and movie viewing or surround game playing.

 

I would suggest going for the second option creatip123 mentioned: put a surround system together yourself. I am a huge supporter of Denon receivers and am using one for my home theater setup. I also always suggest people check out Dayton Audio speakers if they're on a budget. I'm currently using the B652 pair for a simple stereo setup for my computer and they outperform a much more expensive pair of Polk Audio speakers I had before and are very solidly built (rather utilitarian in design). They are very neutral in sound, if just a little lacking in high frequency detail (which will usually sound harsh anyways in cheaper tweeters), excellent mids that perform very well for string instruments and vocals/dialogue. You could pick up three pairs of these for ~$115 and a center and sub for less than $100.

 

I think it's an excellent point that you can start with a stereo setup and expand as budget allows, since you will be happier with your setup than if you were to just buy a set of surround sound "computer speakers". I think creatip123 missed a key component, however; that is, the sound card. If you run a receiver setup, Realtek's digital output will probably not be the best for games or movies as it's codec support is not very expansive and will leave you wanting. I personally used an ASUS Xonar D2X and it was fantastic for everything, it had excellent digital support, a good headphone amp (though not when compared to standalone DAC/headphone amp setups of course) and much better signal to noise ratio than onboard audio. In a blind listening test, my girlfriend was immediately able to identify the shortcomings of the onboard audio when compared to the D2X. There are also cheaper options from ASUS, which is really the only good option for soundcards right now.

 

The point is really that you should not go with a plug-and-play system as they just don't sound good and the quality is not remotely worth the money. On a budget, it's still worth saving up and starting with a stereo or 2.1 system with a good sound card and receiver and build up to your 7.1 goal. The added headphone support you get with sound cards is just a bonus. I would advise against the preamp/power amp setup for a computer audio system (even if used as a home theater as well) since you would need a good DAC, multichannel preamp and up to four power amps to drive all your speakers and this really doesn't make sense to me unless you're looking to spend upwards of $400 on each pair of speakers and $700+ on the sub, etc. as it simply won't outperform a good receiver/sound card system at the same price point. Hope this helps.

 

Edit: Also, Onkyo makes some good inexpensive receivers that can make this kind of a system more budget friendly.

......Wow....you know your stuff. ok well

how will this setup fair me running off of the boards integrated jacks.

 

At this point i am trying to keep cost low so i think ill start with a simple stereo running of off the analog FR FL on the board.

 

Amp:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003OELGGG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I2JJ3FF3JL465T

Speakers:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IUIV4A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2RU1TR2NT0CS6&coliid=I22KR2XMPULOD3

 

 

 

i know the quality wont be as good as it can be but at this point my budget will only allow me a stereo setup with a basic power amp. I do see your point with the sound card thing and i might forgo a dedicated sub for a decent sound card next time i have some cash

[Ian_Balisy]

For relatively cheap speakers, such as those Miccas or the Dayton Audios I suggested, you aren't really going to run into problems with headroom as frequently as you will notice the inherent harshness and sibilance of cheaper tweeters. At the price for those Micca speakers, I would (again) suggest that the Dayton Audio B652 Air's (brand new model with a much higher quality tweeter) will outperform them.

 

As for the Pyle amp, I think that's a reasonable choice for the price even though I'm a bit of a snob in that I usually advise against amps with EQ as it generally means that the components haven't been chosen based on listening tests (which are very expensive and time consuming) and the manufacturer is trying to hide the shortcomings by allowing you to boost the frequency range you like to hear the most (i.e. if you're a basehead or you really like vocals and dialogue to shine). Still, for the price it seems like a good option.

 

Keep in mind, that this Onkyo 7.1 receiver is only ~$60 more and will allow for future surround expansion. (I realize that it's a discontinued model, but you can find very good deals on used Onkyo and Denon receivers online if you're willing to do a little bit of research into which models are the most reliable.)

 

 

......Wow....you know your stuff. ok well

how will this setup fair me running off of the boards integrated jacks.

 

 

i know the quality wont be as good as it can be but at this point my budget will only allow me a stereo setup with a basic power amp. I do see your point with the sound card thing and i might forgo a dedicated sub for a decent sound card next time i have some cash

 

See my above post in which I answered this question. I think those are decent options, but for an extra $50 you can get a 7.1 ready receiver and utilize the SPDIF out on your motherboard, which will offer much higher quality audio across the board compared to the analog outs. My suggestion would be to save up a little longer and get a receiver if you can, but if you absolutely must get a stereo amp and speaker set the Pyle seems fine.

[cooljoe30]

For relatively cheap speakers, such as those Miccas or the Dayton Audios I suggested, you aren't really going to run into problems with headroom as frequently as you will notice the inherent harshness and sibilance of cheaper tweeters. At the price for those Micca speakers, I would (again) suggest that the Dayton Audio B652 Air's (brand new model with a much higher quality tweeter) will outperform them.

 

As for the Pyle amp, I think that's a reasonable choice for the price even though I'm a bit of a snob in that I usually advise against amps with EQ as it generally means that the components haven't been chosen based on listening tests (which are very expensive and time consuming) and the manufacturer is trying to hide the shortcomings by allowing you to boost the frequency range you like to hear the most (i.e. if you're a basehead or you really like vocals and dialogue to shine). Still, for the price it seems like a good option.

 

Keep in mind, that this Onkyo 7.1 receiver is only ~$60 more and will allow for future surround expansion. (I realize that it's a discontinued model, but you can find very good deals on used Onkyo and Denon receivers online if you're willing to do a little bit of research into which models are the most reliable.)

Well the Onkyo or any full 7.1 reciver will be eating out....up* my entire budget so its going to be something i do a bit later for now im sticking with the same pyle amp and going with the Dayton's you talked about. What kind of wire should i go with? I read that the wire speakers usually come with is complete garbage.

I need someone to explain this ohm thing to me. What do they do and when and to what degree is it ok to mix and match (ie is it ok to use high ohm amps with low ohm speakers and vice versa).

Sorry for all the super stupid questions.

[Ian_Balisy]

Well the Onkyo or any full 7.1 reciver will be eating out....up* my entire budget so its going to be something i do a bit later for now im sticking with the same pyle amp and going with the Dayton's you talked about. What kind of wire should i go with? I read that the wire speakers usually come with is complete garbage.

I need someone to explain this ohm thing to me. What do they do and when and to what degree is it ok to mix and match (ie is it ok to use high ohm amps with low ohm speakers and vice versa).

Sorry for all the super stupid questions.

 

I wouldn't say that's a stupid question, since not knowing can get you into a situation where fires can occur... personal experience. However, you will not have any impedance issues with cheaper speakers as they are made specifically to work with virtually any relatively cheap amp. You will be fine with your setup as long as the wires are connected properly.

 

In terms of wires, the Dayton speakers actually have very small gauge inputs so the wire is going to be light regardless. Larger diameter (lower gauge) wire is really only useful for very large speakers with multiple woofer and tweeters, as in PA systems, or for very long runs to your source audio system (to reduce signal loss, generally over 25 ft. or more). If you want better wire, you only need to go to 16 gauge wire and use pin connectors, which are generally more expensive and really not necessary for your purposes. The speaker wire that comes with what you buy will probably be fine and anyone who argues against that is probably a snob like me. If the connection is good, the gauge of the wire won't make an audible difference.

 

Edit: Also here's too much information on ohms if you want it.

[creatip123]

+1 on Denon brand. My dad have a very old Denon AV receiver, I think it's about 15 years, and still working (no joke). He used it with a pair of Jamo standing speakers (3-way, with the largest one is 15", I think), got nice deep bass out of them, no sub needed or ever bought. The setup is still working to this day, and I can vouch for those 2 brands, Denon and Jamo, in a blink....

[Ian_Balisy]

+1 on Denon brand. My dad have a very old Denon AV receiver, I think it's about 15 years, and still working (no joke). He used it with a pair of Jamo standing speakers (3-way, with the largest one is 15", I think), got nice deep bass out of them, no sub needed or ever bought. The setup is still working to this day, and I can vouch for those 2 brands, Denon and Jamo, in a blink....

 

Same situation here, my dad is still using a 15+ year old Denon receiver. Unfortunately he gave away the Tannoy standing speakers that he used with it, but the Denon is a beast.

[cooljoe30]

Thanks guys i probably won't order anything till next month but when I get it I'll definatly post a thread remarking performance on the setup.

Thanks again