PSU Extra Watts still needed?

[technicianadvance]

Here is my setup and the recommended wattage from Extreme Outer Vision's power supply calculator. I wanted to buy the Seasonic Flagship PRIME 600 Titanium Fanless SSR-600TL ( link: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151194 ). Would there be any issues that could come up?

 

Motherboard:        Desktop
Socket:        Socket AM4
CPU:        1 x AMD Ryzen 7 2700
CPU Speed:        3200 MHz
CPU Vcore:        1.1 V
         
Memory:        2 x 8GB DDR4 Module
         
Video Card Set 1:        1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
Core Clock:        1480 MHz
Memory Clock:        1251 MHz
         
Storage:        1 x SATA 7.2K RPM
Storage:        3 x M.2 SSD
         
Other Device:        5 x USB 2.0 Device
         
Keyboard:        1 x Gaming Keyboard
Mouse:        1 x Gaming Mouse
         
Fan:        4 x 120mm
         
Computer Utilization:        8 hours per day
         
Gaming / Heavy 3D Application Time:        8 hours per day

 

Load Wattage:		480 W	+3.3V +5V +12V 11.6 A 11.6 A 31.9 A 97 W 383 W
Recommended UPS rating:		900 VA
Recommended PSU Wattage:		530 W

 

[Jurrunio]

600w's more than enough

[Fasauceome]

I think that PSU is a great choice, and that the wattage calculator definitely overestimated.

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

Would there be any issues that could come up?

It would rip a hole in your wallet for a thing you don't really need.

A good quality 550W PSU is more than enough and if you get a good quality one (be quiet Straight Power 11 for example), you won't hear it anyways as the fan used is that good.

 

A better available alternative might be the Bitfenix Whisper M (also 550W as the 650W has +50% higher fan RPM in idle due to higher fan RPM used)...

[technicianadvance]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

It would rip a hole in your wallet for a thing you don't really need.

A good quality 550W PSU is more than enough and if you get a good quality one (be quiet Straight Power 11 for example), you won't hear it anyways as the fan used is that good.

 

A better available alternative might be the Bitfenix Whisper M (also 550W as the 650W has +50% higher fan RPM in idle due to higher fan RPM used)...

Could you recommend a PSU with a fan that stops when it is not used? Or a fan that can be disabled. I understand that fans can be silent (for a while), but the fan in my 1200 watt PSU is making a terrible amount of noise. I did have it for 5 years but still, the noise is so annoying.  I am looking to not have to replace this for a long time. And I don't want to have to replace it just because the fan is going bad.

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

Could you recommend a PSU with a fan that stops when it is not used?

No, because I find that to be bullshit and in most cases cause more trouble than its worth.

With a good, low RPM fan (wich is possible with lower watt ranges), you can regulate it so far down that its barely noticable.

And even some really cheap PSU do that with more or less success.

 

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

I understand that fans can be silent (for a while),

No, that is not true. Or rather: it depends on fan and bearing. A high quality FDB/HDB or however you call that will not get much louder in its lifetime. 

That it gets louder is usually something that happens with double Ball Bearing and also some simple/cheap sleeve bearing fans, not the high quality improved Sleeve bearings.

 

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

but the fan in my 1200 watt PSU is making a terrible amount of noise.

1200W...

Those often come with rediculously high rpm fans. Something like 2500-3000rpm, sometimes even more (the etasis made EVGA gots the jar here with ~5000rpm max, 120mm fan).

With a fan that rotates half 

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

I did have it for 5 years but still, the noise is so annoying. 

Yes, I agree with you.

Wich is also the reason why I never really used my Huntkey X7/1200W.

Because the fan is rather annoying.

Maybe its the cause of the fan controller. 

But most of my other PSU are not semi fanless and some are, some work decently, some well, some are worse than with constantly running fan.

 

Anyway, in general, on lower wattage PSU I prefer a low RPM fan of good quality.

I have two PSU that have fan RPM under 400rpm with 135/140mm: Chieftec Power Smart and the Xilence Performance X.

And two with around 500rpm/120mm -> be quiet Pure Power 10/400W and Bitfenix Formula

 

And one of those has an awful Hong Hua fan that ruins it all, the Bitfenix is OK with minor motor noise, while the Xilence and be quiet don't have any noticable at all.

 

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

I am looking to not have to replace this for a long time.

Nobody who knows his stuff will guarantee that with upcoming hardware.

With the stuff you have right now, without replacing the Board and CPU as well as Graphics card, it might be possible.

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

And I don't want to have to replace it just because the fan is going bad.

You don't have to as some units have very high quality fans, some have decent quality fans and other still have crap fans. 

 

 

I'd recommend you that unit:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA68V6SK1580&Description=straight power 550W&cm_re=straight_power_550W-_-9SIA68V6SK1580-_-Product

The lower wattage Bitfenix Formula and Whisper M are decent as well and not too loud either, though the fan quality is not well known. be quiet probably has the best fans in a PSU...

 

[17030644]

2 hours ago, dlscientist said:

Could you recommend a PSU with a fan that stops when it is not used? Or a fan that can be disabled. I understand that fans can be silent (for a while), but the fan in my 1200 watt PSU is making a terrible amount of noise. I did have it for 5 years but still, the noise is so annoying.  I am looking to not have to replace this for a long time. And I don't want to have to replace it just because the fan is going bad.

I also believe fanless mode is bullshit.

 

A low RPM fan won't be heard anyway and does provide the parts with some cooling

 

the fan on your 1200w psu makes a lot of noise MAYBE, but you're talking about a particular PSU, having a fan doesn't mean loud.

38 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, because I find that to be bullshit and in most cases cause more trouble than its worth.

With a good, low RPM fan (wich is possible with lower watt ranges), you can regulate it so far down that its barely noticable.

And even some really cheap PSU do that with more or less success.

 

3

well no fan rotating helps with efficiency isn't it? and lasts longer.

 

ok I see turning a fan on and off very rapidly does more harm than having it spinning at low RPMs

38 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

 

No, that is not true. Or rather: it depends on fan and bearing. A high quality FDB/HDB or however you call that will not get much louder in its lifetime. 

That it gets louder is usually something that happens with double Ball Bearing and also some simple/cheap sleeve bearing fans, not the high quality improved Sleeve bearings.

 

1

by high quality improved sleeve bearings you mean rifle bearing?

 

how does it compare to an fdb fan?

38 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

1200W...

Those often come with rediculously high rpm fans. Something like 2500-3000rpm, sometimes even more (the etasis made EVGA gots the jar here with ~5000rpm max, 120mm fan).

With a fan that rotates half 

Yes, I agree with you.

Wich is also the reason why I never really used my Huntkey X7/1200W.

Because the fan is rather annoying.

Maybe its the cause of the fan controller. 

But most of my other PSU are not semi fanless and some are, some work decently, some well, some are worse than with constantly running fan.

 

 

5

but the AX1500i and AX1600i are silent and they are high wattage psus

38 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

 

Anyway, in general, on lower wattage PSU I prefer a low RPM fan of good quality.

I have two PSU that have fan RPM under 400rpm with 135/140mm: Chieftec Power Smart and the Xilence Performance X.

And two with around 500rpm/120mm -> be quiet Pure Power 10/400W and Bitfenix Formula

 

And one of those has an awful Hong Hua fan that ruins it all, the Bitfenix is OK with minor motor noise, while the Xilence and be quiet don't have any noticable at all.

 

Nobody who knows his stuff will guarantee that with upcoming hardware.

With the stuff you have right now, without replacing the Board and CPU as well as Graphics card, it might be possible.

You don't have to as some units have very high quality fans, some have decent quality fans and other still have crap fans. 

 

 

I'd recommend you that unit:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA68V6SK1580&Description=straight power 550W&cm_re=straight_power_550W-_-9SIA68V6SK1580-_-Product

The lower wattage Bitfenix Formula and Whisper M are decent as well and not too loud either, though the fan quality is not well known. be quiet probably has the best fans in a PSU...

 

2

do you think the dark power pro 11 is worth it over the straight power 11?

 

and do you know if the system power series DC-DC are silent? what are the quietest budget psus do you know? cheaper than bitfenix formula and rmx I mean

 

 

[17030644]

5 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

It would rip a hole in your wallet for a thing you don't really need.

A good quality 550W PSU is more than enough and if you get a good quality one (be quiet Straight Power 11 for example), you won't hear it anyways as the fan used is that good.

 

A better available alternative might be the Bitfenix Whisper M (also 550W as the 650W has +50% higher fan RPM in idle due to higher fan RPM used)...

but the fanless unit is more efficient isn't it.

 

I'm aware it doesn't always make a huge difference in power savings.

 

But besides being fanless and expensive do you think seasonic prime titanium series are bad?

[17030644]

Just now, 17030644 said:

but the fanless unit is more efficient isn't it?

 

I'm aware it doesn't always make a huge difference in therms of power savings.

 

But besides being fanless and expensive do you think seasonic prime titanium series are bad?

1

 

[Stefan Payne]

10 hours ago, 17030644 said:

by high quality improved sleeve bearings you mean rifle bearing?

No, FDB is included in that too.

Maglev probably not because its not a sleeve bearing its a friction less bearing that works completely different, wich is why its called magnetic levitation bearing.

 

10 hours ago, 17030644 said:

how does it compare to an fdb fan?

A bit worse, how much depends on so many factors.

What people tend to underestimate is manufacturing quality and the lubricant used.

a good Rifle with high quality lubricant (and a bit more) might last longer than a bad FDB with not so good (and much) Lubricant.

 

10 hours ago, 17030644 said:

but the AX1500i and AX1600i are silent and they are high wattage psus

They are the exceptions of the rule and very expensive.

Like 400€ or more.

A normal (decent) quality 1200W PSU is like 170-250€ or so.

For example: Cooler Master V1200, Xilence Performance X-1250, Enermax Platimax DF (both on the lower end, sub 200€) Dark Power Pro P11/1200W (245€)

Interestingly a 1700W Enermax Platimax is only 270€

Silverstone Strider Tiranium 1500W is only 370€ for example...

 

10 hours ago, 17030644 said:

do you think the dark power pro 11 is worth it over the straight power 11?

Not really, at the moment.

In some cases it might make sense, when you need the connections like second CPU Connector on all units but that's rather rare cases..

10 hours ago, 17030644 said:

and do you know if the system power series DC-DC are silent? what are the quietest budget psus do you know? cheaper than bitfenix formula and rmx I mean

I don't have one of them, so I'm not entirely sure.

The Xilence Performance A+ in 530W and 730W is fairly quiet (~750rpm at idle) and the Performance X (only have the 750W, wich has 350rpm).

Both are in the area of the Corsair CX and way cheaper).

[technicianadvance]

20 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, because I find that to be bullshit and in most cases cause more trouble than its worth.

With a good, low RPM fan (wich is possible with lower watt ranges), you can regulate it so far down that its barely noticable.

And even some really cheap PSU do that with more or less success.

 

No, that is not true. Or rather: it depends on fan and bearing. A high quality FDB/HDB or however you call that will not get much louder in its lifetime. 

That it gets louder is usually something that happens with double Ball Bearing and also some simple/cheap sleeve bearing fans, not the high quality improved Sleeve bearings.

 

1200W...

Those often come with rediculously high rpm fans. Something like 2500-3000rpm, sometimes even more (the etasis made EVGA gots the jar here with ~5000rpm max, 120mm fan).

With a fan that rotates half 

Yes, I agree with you.

Wich is also the reason why I never really used my Huntkey X7/1200W.

Because the fan is rather annoying.

Maybe its the cause of the fan controller. 

But most of my other PSU are not semi fanless and some are, some work decently, some well, some are worse than with constantly running fan.

 

Anyway, in general, on lower wattage PSU I prefer a low RPM fan of good quality.

I have two PSU that have fan RPM under 400rpm with 135/140mm: Chieftec Power Smart and the Xilence Performance X.

And two with around 500rpm/120mm -> be quiet Pure Power 10/400W and Bitfenix Formula

 

And one of those has an awful Hong Hua fan that ruins it all, the Bitfenix is OK with minor motor noise, while the Xilence and be quiet don't have any noticable at all.

 

Nobody who knows his stuff will guarantee that with upcoming hardware.

With the stuff you have right now, without replacing the Board and CPU as well as Graphics card, it might be possible.

You don't have to as some units have very high quality fans, some have decent quality fans and other still have crap fans. 

 

 

I'd recommend you that unit:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA68V6SK1580&Description=straight power 550W&cm_re=straight_power_550W-_-9SIA68V6SK1580-_-Product

The lower wattage Bitfenix Formula and Whisper M are decent as well and not too loud either, though the fan quality is not well known. be quiet probably has the best fans in a PSU...

 

What I got from this is :

 

1. It would work without issues in my build, be silent, and may last a long time. But from a value stance it is not so great.

 

2. Buying it for silence is not a good value compared to PSU's with better and quieter fans that are cheaper.

 

3. Buying it for the lack of a fan that could die is also a bad decision because higher quality fans can last a very long time and are found in cheaper PSU's. 

 

Is this the correct interpretation.

[Stefan Payne]

1 hour ago, dlscientist said:

1. It would work without issues in my build, be silent, and may last a long time. But from a value stance it is not so great.

no, as fanless units often have an abysmally bad track record when it comes to reliability.

And if you think about it a bit more you realize that the temperature difference between no fan/airflow and a bit airflow is huge and that might be the reason why this might be the case...

 

Just look at fanless graphics cards, how enormous the heatsinks are and how rediculously hot they get and compare that with cards that have a fan. How small the heatsink is and how huge the difference in temperature is.

For example:

https://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00061506.html

And that one could go to 100°C or so...

And the reference heatsink looked like this:

https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/graphics/xfx_geforce_8600_gt_xxx_edition/1/

 

 

So no.

 

Quote

2. Buying it for silence is not a good value compared to PSU's with better and quieter fans that are cheaper.

...and usually more reliable, lasting longer because lower temperatures, no hot spots.

And with a good design and fan, its not even that much quieter...

 

 

Quote

3. Buying it for the lack of a fan that could die is also a bad decision because higher quality fans can last a very long time and are found in cheaper PSU's. 

Good quality fans survive the PSU 3 times over...

Though good quality fans are expensive as hell. You can see that when looking up fans, a standard model is like 1,5€ or so. A good quality one is like 15-25€.

Wich is why they are very rare, even in higher priced units...

 

You have to know what to look for and trust the manufacturer with his claims...

 

Quote

Is this the correct interpretation.

Well, it goes in the right direction. 

 

Thing is that the difference between no fan and fan spinning slowly is like 10-20K, maybe even more.

And its said that 10K higher temperatures halves the lifetime of a component (or the other way around, 10K less doubles it)...

[andrewmp6]

In the old days psu was crappy made and we went way above the power needs because of this.Today with a good psu you only need maybe 50 watts more then your systems max power needs.

[Guest]

On 11/17/2018 at 7:21 AM, Stefan Payne said:

No, because I find that to be bullshit and in most cases cause more trouble than its worth.

 

 

On 11/17/2018 at 7:54 AM, 17030644 said:

I also believe fanless mode is bullshit.

 

Man... You guys are going to be PISSED when everyone goes with a fanless mode at low loads in order to meet Intel's 70% efficiency requirement for 2020 in the 1.4x DSG.