Installing a second router help.

[Robert27]

I want to install a second router in the second floor of my house because the connection is really poor. Is there a way to bypass coaxial cable to install another router? I noticed that Verizon has an option but it seems to be too over priced. Also, I have a WiFi range extender but no matter where i place it the range.  The extender would end up with speed of up to 20  Mbps max.

 

Is there anything i can do?

 

Thank you  !

 

 

[amusedschrodinger]

If you can find a way to hook the two routers up with an ethernet cable (lan port to lan port), you can turn off the dhcp server on the second router and turn it into an access point.

[Robert27]

12 hours ago, amusedschrodinger said:

If you can find a way to hook the two routers up with an ethernet cable (lan port to lan port), you can turn off the dhcp server on the second router and turn it into an access point.

right , and that would mean it would only work for devices connected through lan cable?

[amusedschrodinger]

You can still set up the wifi on the 2nd router.

[Robert27]

1 minute ago, amusedschrodinger said:

You can still set up the wifi on the 2nd router.

right i will give it a try. Can i do it through coaxial cable ?

[amusedschrodinger]

Router 1 coax to router 2 coax? I don't know if that's possible.

[Robert27]

no no that it's because i have coaxial cable in my room ass well

[amusedschrodinger]

You can try. If it works, keep the 2nd router's dhcp settings at default. You will have two separate networks in your house. Devices connected to router 1 cannot communicate with devices connected to router 2.

 

Edit to add: I doubt the ISP will give you 2 active coax connections unless you paid for it. But if you've got a 2nd cable moded/router lying round, doesn't hurt to give it a shot.

[Donut417]

21 minutes ago, Robert27 said:

right i will give it a try. Can i do it through coaxial cable ?

MAYBE. Verizon is a Fiber service provider, I know they use a Moca router. Essentially convert the Fiber to Coax so they can provide TV service and stuff. Moca does work with cable service on the same line, the issue is, your internet is provided on the Moca frequencies, which is why its a Moca router. They do make Moca adapters that convert from Coax to Ethernet. The issue is, Im not sure how this will work with Verizon's equipment. IF you have an idea of how the coax is layed out in your home that would be best. For example, all the coax should come to one place in your home. If you isolate the line going to your room from the rest of the coax then using moca adapters you could do exactly what your trying. You might need to run another coax line to where your router is, but..... things cant be easy. Essentially you need a moca adapter connected to the router and one connected to the coax line in your room. Then you need a coax line that basally goes from the point of the router to the room. You can use barrel connectors to connect two coax lines together, so you dont have to run a super long line, just extend what you have. 

 

Unbonded Moca 2.0 adapters should be able to do at least 400Mbps Half duplex, while Bonded ones can do 800 Mbps half duplex. 

[Robert27]

51 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

MAYBE. Verizon is a Fiber service provider, I know they use a Moca router. Essentially convert the Fiber to Coax so they can provide TV service and stuff. Moca does work with cable service on the same line, the issue is, your internet is provided on the Moca frequencies, which is why its a Moca router. They do make Moca adapters that convert from Coax to Ethernet. The issue is, Im not sure how this will work with Verizon's equipment. IF you have an idea of how the coax is layed out in your home that would be best. For example, all the coax should come to one place in your home. If you isolate the line going to your room from the rest of the coax then using moca adapters you could do exactly what your trying. You might need to run another coax line to where your router is, but..... things cant be easy. Essentially you need a moca adapter connected to the router and one connected to the coax line in your room. Then you need a coax line that basally goes from the point of the router to the room. You can use barrel connectors to connect two coax lines together, so you don't have to run a super long line, just extend what you have. 

 

Unbonded Moca 2.0 adapters should be able to do at least 400Mbps Half duplex, while Bonded ones can do 800 Mbps half duplex. 

Then let me get this right. I have the coaxial cable isolated. For me it would be the one connecting to my cable box. So then i would connect the moca one leading up to tv and the other in ?. Right then i would connect the router with the Ethernet cable ?

[Donut417]

8 hours ago, Robert27 said:

Then let me get this right. I have the coaxial cable isolated. For me it would be the one connecting to my cable box. So then i would connect the moca one leading up to tv and the other in ?. Right then i would connect the router with the Ethernet cable ?

No. By Isolated I mean nothing else using it. Like I said, your router uses moca to get internet signal from the ONT. And Im not sure if other moca devices will affect it. If you have a TV hooked up to the line you want to use, Im not sure if it will work. While bonded moca adapters have pass thrus for TV's, Im concerned other moca devices on the network could interfere with the signal coming from the ONT to the router. 

 

While you can buy some adapters to see, Moca adapters are expensive. A pair of Unbonded adapters the last time I looked was $160 USD. 

[Robert27]

On 10/25/2018 at 9:35 AM, Donut417 said:

No. By Isolated I mean nothing else using it. Like I said, your router uses moca to get internet signal from the ONT. And Im not sure if other moca devices will affect it. If you have a TV hooked up to the line you want to use, Im not sure if it will work. While bonded moca adapters have pass thrus for TV's, Im concerned other moca devices on the network could interfere with the signal coming from the ONT to the router. 

 

While you can buy some adapters to see, Moca adapters are expensive. A pair of Unbonded adapters the last time I looked was $160 USD. 

okay so first i gotta make sure no other moca device is been used in my network ? then buy an adapter  if they're not  been used ?

[Donut417]

10 hours ago, Robert27 said:

okay so first i gotta make sure no other moca device is been used in my network ? then buy an adapter  if they're not  been used ?

Thats the thing, the Verizon router uses moca to give you internet. The Verizon ONT converts the Fiber to Coax because they deliver TV the same way the cable company does. The Verizon router not only gives you internet but it does communicate with the TV boxes and such. So if the Coax you want to use has a TV box on it, then it might be a no go. 

 

Generally all the Coax in your home should come back to a central point. You just use a splitter at that point to connect every thing together. Now if the coax run you want to use is not connected to the same splitter as everything else then it should not interfere. BUT you might have to run a new coax line to where the router is. Then you can connect the two lines together with a barrel connector. Then you use moca adapters at each end to enable communication. 

[Robert27]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Thats the thing, the Verizon router uses moca to give you internet. The Verizon ONT converts the Fiber to Coax because they deliver TV the same way the cable company does. The Verizon router not only gives you internet but it does communicate with the TV boxes and such. So if the Coax you want to use has a TV box on it, then it might be a no go. 

 

Generally all the Coax in your home should come back to a central point. You just use a splitter at that point to connect every thing together. Now if the coax run you want to use is not connected to the same splitter as everything else then it should not interfere. BUT you might have to run a new coax line to where the router is. Then you can connect the two lines together with a barrel connector. Then you use moca adapters at each end to enable communication. 

My cables aren't running Directly from ONT box for some reason.. they seem to have a direct line from the street then into the house.Verizon is using 2 2way moca 2.0 splitter "MMC102HA". In two parts of my house one outside and one inside the house where the router is. one going to the modem and one to the router. then would it still work if i use a moca bridge ? or would i need to remove it.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Robert27 said:

My cables aren't running Directly from ONT box for some reason.. they seem to have a direct line from the street then into the house.Verizon is using 2 2way moca 2.0 splitter "MMC102HA". In two parts of my house one outside and one inside the house where the router is. one going to the modem and one to the router. then would it still work if i use a moca bridge ? or would i need to remove it.

You not going to have a direct link from your router to the ONT. All the coax is most likely connected via splitters. As long as they are all connected the signal will get where it needs to go. Some where down the line your ONT is connected in. Then your TV's and Router are connected. I would assume that with FIOS they have a little more flexibility with running Wire. See I have Comcast, and depending on how far your from the NODE your signal might not be as good. Which is why they prioritize running modems from the first splitter. With Verizon they dont have those limitations because at the most your running a few hundred feet, which shouldn't degrade the signal. 

 

BUT your issue is, you dont know how your coax is setup in your home. That makes it challenging. Im not 100% sure or no if you can just throw some moca adapters on what you currently have. Not sure if that will interfere with what Verizon has set up. 

[Robert27]

28 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

You not going to have a direct link from your router to the ONT. All the coax is most likely connected via splitters. As long as they are all connected the signal will get where it needs to go. Some where down the line your ONT is connected in. Then your TV's and Router are connected. I would assume that with FIOS they have a little more flexibility with running Wire. See I have Comcast, and depending on how far your from the NODE your signal might not be as good. Which is why they prioritize running modems from the first splitter. With Verizon they dont have those limitations because at the most your running a few hundred feet, which shouldn't degrade the signal. 

 

BUT your issue is, you dont know how your coax is setup in your home. That makes it challenging. Im not 100% sure or no if you can just throw some moca adapters on what you currently have. Not sure if that will interfere with what Verizon has set up. 

true i really don't know how my cable is lay out.  so that's the splitter i have outside my house. Then i have one of those cable going to room where the router is then another splitter then that goes to the router and modem.  I'm not sure what the black cable is.

[scottyseng]

7 minutes ago, Robert27 said:

true i really don't know how my cable is lay out.  so that's the splitter i have outside my house. Then i have one of those cable going to room where the router is then another splitter then that goes to the router and modem.  I'm not sure what the black cable is.

Yeah, all you can really do to find out if your coax is connected is to leave your ONT plugged into coax, and go walking around with your router to check each coax plug to figure out if it still gets internet or not.

 

You can't use moca adapters if the coax line is connected to the ONT / router. The Router not only gives you internet via coax, but also gives the TV boxes internet via moca. It'll cause interference unless you can get that coax to the 2nd floor isolated by itself to use a moca run.

 

You cannot have two different verizon routers though on coax. ONT will only allow one. I tested it before for the lolz.

[Robert27]

6 hours ago, scottyseng said:

Yeah, all you can really do to find out if your coax is connected is to leave your ONT plugged into coax, and go walking around with your router to check each coax plug to figure out if it still gets internet or not.

 

You can't use moca adapters if the coax line is connected to the ONT / router. The Router not only gives you internet via coax, but also gives the TV boxes internet via moca. It'll cause interference unless you can get that coax to the 2nd floor isolated by itself to use a moca run.

 

You cannot have two different verizon routers though on coax. ONT will only allow one. I tested it before for the lolz.

i checked and it's not connected  to the ONT Box because, otherwise Verizon will not be able to use their moca splitter right ?

[Donut417]

6 minutes ago, Robert27 said:

i checked and it's not connected  to the ONT Box because, otherwise Verizon will not be able to use their moca splitter right ?

If you have TV with Verizon it has to be connected to the ONT. Verizon is able to use moca because of how moca works. Your TV channels should be transmitted between 5 mhz and 950 mhz, Moca uses 1 Ghz to 1.5 Ghz. If your Verizon router uses coax then there is a connection to the ONT. If the router uses Ethernet then there should be an Ethernet cable connected at the ONT. From my knowledge you need to use the Verizon Moca router in order to have TV. Its the fact you have the Moca router is why your cant use moca yourself.

 

 

[scottyseng]

2 hours ago, Robert27 said:

i checked and it's not connected  to the ONT Box because, otherwise Verizon will not be able to use their moca splitter right ?

Yeah, if you have TV boxes, you have to have both the ONT box and the router plugged into coax for the boxes to work 100%.

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

From my knowledge you need to use the Verizon Moca router in order to have TV. Its the fact you have the Moca router is why your cant use moca yourself.

You can run the TV boxes without the Moca router, but you forfeit the ability to download the TV guide, TV box firmware updates, all on demand channels (Stuff like HBO), and any channels that need online DRM. The ONT actually provides TV (I run a cable card without the verizon router just fine, ignoring the on demand channels that I don't use anyway). The router feeds the TV boxes internet through Moca.

[Donut417]

9 hours ago, scottyseng said:

You can run the TV boxes without the Moca router, but you forfeit the ability to download the TV guide, TV box firmware updates, all on demand channels (Stuff like HBO), and any channels that need online DRM. The ONT actually provides TV (I run a cable card without the verizon router just fine, ignoring the on demand channels that I don't use anyway). The router feeds the TV boxes internet through Moca.

Good to know. So basically your telling me it works almost like Cable TV service. Because if you use a cable card lets say on Comcast, you dont have access to premium or on demand content. So does Verizon handle cable cards any better than the cable company? 

[Robert27]

On 10/27/2018 at 11:53 PM, Donut417 said:

If the router uses Ethernet then there should be an Ethernet cable connected at the ONT. From my knowledge you need to use the Verizon Moca router in order to have TV. Its the fact you have the Moca router is why your cant use moca yourself. 

You're right on ! So i can't use a moca bridge ?

[scottyseng]

On 10/29/2018 at 2:41 PM, Robert27 said:

You're right on ! So i can't use a moca bridge ?

You would need to isolate the coax line somehow. Otherwise, no, if all of the coax is tied together (Which verizon usually does by default)

 

On 10/28/2018 at 11:03 AM, Donut417 said:

Good to know. So basically your telling me it works almost like Cable TV service. Because if you use a cable card lets say on Comcast, you dont have access to premium or on demand content. So does Verizon handle cable cards any better than the cable company? 

Ah, forgot to reply. Verizon is the same by not allowing premium or on demand content on the cable cards (not that i ever used them). However, I know on Verizon, they're really chill on the channel encryption. I hear it's quite hard to get cable cards working on Charter / Comcast due to some of the channel's encryption.