Linux is not easy.

[pianopraze]

Hi all

I'm new to the forum and brand new to Linux (less than one week experience). I was inspired by several of Linus' videos to try linux.

 

I see all these "Linux is so easy your Grandmother should use it" etc etc and "it runs old hard ware so well" blah blah blah... so I'm like "Ok! Let's do this!"

 

I grab an old XP machine and google for Linux versions that work well on old machines. MacPup looks good so I DL and try to instal... fail. Not enough memory (only 1.5G) OK so let's do Puppy then. Puppy works from the Boot Disk but absolutely refuses to install. It says it installs but the boot loader doesn't show it. So I redo it (many times) trying variations of editing the boot loader.

 

No Luck... soooooo??? Bodhi looks good. Let's try that. Bodhi is to big to instal on a CD... bummer. Hmm.. Bodhi 3.2.1 will fit.. let's install that and upgrade it!!! (I can hear your laughter now).  It installs very easy... whew! Problem over... what??? The browser doesn't work, the update app doesn't even run, and the screen looks like crap? Ok, install Nvidia driver should fix that right??? Quick search then run apt-get install the legacy drivers... I'm learning, right? Nope. Sigh. No more flicker but it's at 640x480 or some such ridiculous resolution. How to uninstall? Purge... Ok... sure hope this doesn't kill the Nvidia driver for my network card!. Whew NIC works and video back to 1024x800 or so, but horrible flicker. Browser still won't work, learn can't upgrade via updater to latest version of Bodhi... Darn. Well.... Someone on Bodhi forum suggest antiX.

 

AntiX installs like a breeze... this looks great! Screen flicker still there but less. Sometimes none or barely there. Browser??? Nope.. nada, insta crash still. Apt-get update, Apt-get upgrade, Apt-Get distilled-upgrade... I'm becoming a pro! Right??? (Stop laughing). Sigh.. nothing... search search search... UNINSTALL FLASH!!!! Wow! All the browsers work! Well... for 30 seconds... crash crash crash.. SS2 chromium says.. what the heck is that? Oh. My Old AMD Athlon doesn't have that so I'm screwed. Non-SS2 pale moon? OK ... nope. Ok... Next???

 

Try updating with spare parts lying around but all my old motherboards that fit form factor are dead. Hmmm I've got a working Windows 7 Dell computer upstairs my wife used until I got her a MacBook Air.. let's play with that! 

 

It has DVD Drive, USB Boot enabled, 4 megs of ram, and ss2 processor! Yay! Easy right??? Make boot USB Drive... what??? Doesn't see it??? Hours and tears later pouring over all the Bios settings... screw it, I'll burn a DVD. Elementary, Ubunto, or Mint??? Well... it's still old machine so let's go Elementary. I've got an old 160Gig SSD - let's try! Unplug Win7 Drive, Install SSD, Run Elementary OS disk. Installs like a breeze! Reboot...... nothing....???? Bios settings, yelling, screaming, hammering, swearing, kicking.... nothing. Sigh. Boot up in Win7 and it doesn't see the drive, guess drive died or Elementary Bricked it, I'll try an old 20Gig IDE drive... remove CD drive, install IDE, boot Elementary OS disk on DVD drive... reformat the ID...E... what??? There is the 160GB SSD!!!... WTF??? Why couldn't Win7 see it???? Well... reformat SSD, reinstall Elementary... Reboot... IT'S ALIVE!!!!!

 

What changed??? No clue but it works!!! So Elementary is best yet! It's butter smooth, fast, and pretty! OK.. let's set this up for my wife to watch youtube on... her's a youtube app. Instal, Launch.... it doesn't work. Damn. Well at least the screen isn't... damn. This is second machine and screen is doing some sort of flicker... at least it's not tearing like the XP machine was. It's only noticeable on one part of the screen sometimes.  Well at least Firefox is working great. It's not as stable as Windows 7. Apps crashing a lot. Screen flicker is annoying. But lots of new free fun apps to play with. I'll leave it on here for now.

 

I've got an old Mac Pro Cheese Grater... and a 1TB SSD.... I think Mint or Ubuntu Studio is next!

[asus killer]

just going to comment on a specific part that for me says a lot for the all text, why would you use an youtube app on a PC?

[Master Disaster]

Err why all the weird distros?

 

Try Ubuntu or Mint, as a beginner they're ideal for cutting your teeth.

[pianopraze]

My wife uses the youtube app on her phones a lot. She is not interested in learning Linux, wanted to make it very easy for her to use.

 

 Ubunto and Mint wouldn't run on the old window XP machine.

[Ashleyyyy]

52 minutes ago, pianopraze said:

Ubunto and Mint wouldn't run on the old window XP machine.

is it an athlon 64 or older than that? 

[jpenguin]

Reading your rant, you really need to relax and read a little. 

[Linus_torvalds]

5 hours ago, pianopraze said:

My wife uses the youtube app on her phones a lot. She is not interested in learning Linux, wanted to make it very easy for her to use.

 

 Ubunto and Mint wouldn't run on the old window XP machine.

Are you kidding? Youtube app is easy and opening youtube in browser is not?

 

I have not even heard about youtube app. I use linux almost 8 years now

 

First of all. You tried some wierd distroes. Just use lightest distro. But you are beginer. You could have started with manjaro linux. It has all the programs  in it. Skype, steam, microsoft office online, libreoffice and many more. Many propritery drivers install very easy, like nvidia, broadcom wifi cards. Just try it. Also it has XFCE which is much lighter then GNOME that newer ubuntu is using. Older ubuntu is even worse with it's unity

 

I myself tried arch linux on my old dell laptop from 2000. Yeas 2000. It has 256 MB RAM, 160 GB HDD (i changed it, originaly had 20 GB) 8 MB ATI GPU and 1 GHZ Intel CPU which works on 2.5-3 volts LOL. And even this machine works great. I have i3 WM (it's not conventional GUI that you are used to).

[nanaki]

linux mint is what i would recommend say mint 19. It has the broadest hardware support at the moment hell i managed to get a couple windows only games running with out much work on mint 19. Every thing should just work. Sometimes networking hardware esp wifi) can be finicky but nothing some googling wont solve readily. Install issues on a windows 7 and above machine could be do to uefi. To install n this enable legacy usb boot. This will turn off uefi for all intents and purposes allowing your live stick to boot correctly. 

 

When i started toying with linux things were much much worse than today linux could be the devil him self to convince to install and could take days of distro testing to find one that worked.   Then came dependency hell just to get any thing to work cold be a nightmare. In todays world modern linux distros are all but install and go in most all cases. When i had it on my chrome book many of my clients watched me using it and seen how fast and eas it was to work with they decided to go with it so long as they could use office. At that point it was still open office. Because cross compat with ms office is so high the switch was totally painless for them. 

 

With things like timeshift in mint the scary monster of oh crap i broke something is also now basically gone. If i was in front of your machine i could have you up and running with in hmm 2 hours at most. And that s with me explaining the install process along the way so that if you need to reinstall it your self you can. Also i would install a few window managers from ones that look basically exactly like windows 7 to ones like i3wm that is nothing like um well any thing else out there. 

 

That way you can figure out what interface fits your personal style the best. 

 

First step for you with the win 7 comp download the normal linux mint 64 bit put it on a usb thumb rive and boot up from usb double check legacy boot is on in your bios if a option. if you do not see it your not on uefi and should be fine. Just make sure usb boot is on in some machines it is not on by default. Dells and hps sometimes have this off by default. 

[Epictek300]

Like everyone else is saying, just use a more normal distro. I'd suggest Xubuntu/Lubuntu on such old hardware, mint is pretty heavy.

[pianopraze]

firelighter487: I think an original Athlon.

 

jpenguin: I was going for humor... shrug, guess I missed the mark

 

mate_mate91: When the browser won't go full screen... yep. Manjaro holds no appeal to me for some reason. I like Elementary OS that's running now on the second computer (a windows 7 machine). I gave up on the XP box as now two of the three 512 sticks of ram are dead. This started as an experiment to try to see if I could get worthless old XP machine (from the 90's) to work (defined by browse internet normally) as all youtube videos insist. You know it's so easy your grandma could do it! 

 

nanaki: I'm sure you could have them up and running in no time

 

Mint is next on my list. I've got Elementary stable on the Win7 machine and I like it. Browsing internet with firefox and playing games. I'm going to toss Mint on my dual xenon cheese grater Mac Pro. I could get neither of the Windows computers to boot via USB no matter the bios settings. One of the workarounds for bypassing the bios looks too long and complex. I'm happy with Elementary on the Win7 machine  

 

I tried Mint and Ubuntu booting from a USB on my MacBook a few years ago (for like a day) and didn't like the flavor of them... that's why I've avoided it until now, but I will say it was impressive how well Mint ran just from a USB stick. Booted up and it ran flawlessly. It looks like it's come a long way graphically and will be customizable into something I like.... like Elementary. I'm no PC hater but I've always liked MacOS more. I've built lots of Gaming PC's over the years and loved playing games on them. But for music, painting, and photography I like my Macs. I'm trying out Linux now to see how I like it. I don't want anything to do with Windows SpyWare... I mean 10. Repurposing these old machines that were laying around was just for kicks and get my hands dirty so to speak. My last good gaming build is at my mom's house as her computer so I'm using these relics to learn on.

 

Epictek: I'm going to on my Mac Pro  Going to try Mint and Ubuntu Studio on it. 

 

So why am I trying Linux? Linus' and others videos on Linux makes it look appealing. Windows is going totally spyware and from the sound of it wants to get even more so. Apple is going through it's periodic idiocy trying to be hip and taking away functionality. Until they get back to putting more ports and user upgradeable hardware I'll wait. And I just want to fire up my old computer games. There's all these videos on how toon linux and if nothing else it's a fun experiment.

 

 

[ryao]

1 hour ago, pianopraze said:

firelighter487: I think an original Athlon.

 

jpenguin: I was going for humor... shrug, guess I missed the mark

 

mate_mate91: When the browser won't go full screen... yep. Manjaro holds no appeal to me for some reason. I like Elementary OS that's running now on the second computer (a windows 7 machine). I gave up on the XP box as now two of the three 512 sticks of ram are dead. This started as an experiment to try to see if I could get worthless old XP machine (from the 90's) to work (defined by browse internet normally) as all youtube videos insist. You know it's so easy your grandma could do it! 

 

nanaki: I'm sure you could have them up and running in no time

 

Mint is next on my list. I've got Elementary stable on the Win7 machine and I like it. Browsing internet with firefox and playing games. I'm going to toss Mint on my dual xenon cheese grater Mac Pro. I could get neither of the Windows computers to boot via USB no matter the bios settings. One of the workarounds for bypassing the bios looks too long and complex. I'm happy with Elementary on the Win7 machine  

 

I tried Mint and Ubuntu booting from a USB on my MacBook a few years ago (for like a day) and didn't like the flavor of them... that's why I've avoided it until now, but I will say it was impressive how well Mint ran just from a USB stick. Booted up and it ran flawlessly. It looks like it's come a long way graphically and will be customizable into something I like.... like Elementary. I'm no PC hater but I've always liked MacOS more. I've built lots of Gaming PC's over the years and loved playing games on them. But for music, painting, and photography I like my Macs. I'm trying out Linux now to see how I like it. I don't want anything to do with Windows SpyWare... I mean 10. Repurposing these old machines that were laying around was just for kicks and get my hands dirty so to speak. My last good gaming build is at my mom's house as her computer so I'm using these relics to learn on.

 

Epictek: I'm going to on my Mac Pro  Going to try Mint and Ubuntu Studio on it. 

 

So why am I trying Linux? Linus' and others videos on Linux makes it look appealing. Windows is going totally spyware and from the sound of it wants to get even more so. Apple is going through it's periodic idiocy trying to be hip and taking away functionality. Until they get back to putting more ports and user upgradeable hardware I'll wait. And I just want to fire up my old computer games. There's all these videos on how toon linux and if nothing else it's a fun experiment.

 

 

This is probably obligatory:

 

https://xkcd.com/456/

 

That said, I had trouble getting started with Linux until I setup Gentoo. As someone new to Linux, you are going to need plenty of time and a big willingness to learn if you want to get started using Gentoo though.

 

May I suggest that you use Ubuntu Linux?

[PlayStation 2]

Honestly, the more out-there distros you pick up, the more likely that they won't play nice with your hardware.

Honestly, a lighter-weight Ubuntu variant would be your best bet, that or Linux Mint.

[pianopraze]

ryao: great cartoon, lol!

 

I'm liking Elementary OS. I've been using it for a couple days on the Win7 computer.

 

I tried out Deepin on the Win7 and it looked great! But crashed... a lot! It kept switching to a black screen and turning off and on a setting. And the apps were crashing a lot. Maybe a better machine would work. Probably the old Geforce 4 card in this Win7. Most distros just don't seem to support the old NVida drivers and the default driver the distro installs is hit or miss. But I like Elementary better, it seems pretty solid. 

 

Dan Castellaneta: I've been picking the distro off "top Linux for X users" threads.  The XP box i used "Top Linux distress for old machine users," the Win7 i'm going off lots of top recommended on youtube distros.  

 

Everyone seems to have their favorites. So far I like Elementary the best. Ubuntu just rubs me the wrong way for some reason, but I plan on trying the "studio" version sometime (on my Cheese Greater Mac Pro). Mint I didn't like before, but will try now, as I've seen some nice skins for it. I'm much more of a Mac guy than PC... If I can make Linux look/act more Mac Like and run the PC games via Wine I get the best of both worlds

[Ashleyyyy]

12 hours ago, pianopraze said:

firelighter487: I think an original Athlon.

that explains why some things didn't boot. you need a 32-bit OS for those i believe... i could be wrong but i think that's it. 

[nanaki]

3 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

that explains why some things didn't boot. you need a 32-bit OS for those i believe... i could be wrong but i think that's it. 

yeh original athlon would be 32 bit only 

[Lenovo1984]

If you want to start with Linux, try Mint. Even on old Core 2 Duo office computers (Dell OptiPlex 3xx and 7xx machines and HP Compaqs work well), Mint will still give you a decent experience. 

[jpenguin]

My old computer has a Core 2 Duo E8400 & 650Ti, runs mint fine. 

[nanaki]

4 minutes ago, jpenguin said:

My old computer has a Core 2 Duo E8400 & 650Ti, runs mint fine. 

I forget the exact core 2 duo my 780 has it has a gt 730 basic 2gb dx 11 (or is it 12?) vid card and it runs perfect in linux in fact eve online fs under linux are higher than on windows. Im running mint 19 so it is as new as you get even the kernel has been updated to absolute newest. I have yet to stri away kernel mods not needed fr my system and all the stuff so there is allot more performance locked away

[jpenguin]

Min 19 uses kernel ~4.15, my newer computer also runs mint- but runs kernel 4.18.0-rc8

 

https://github.com/M-Bab/linux-kernel-amdgpu-binaries

[18358414]

I have a cousin with Cerebral Palsy who uses Linux daily -- as the embedded operating system on his wheelchair.  That being said, I wouldn't expect him to know how to install Puppy Linux or any esoteric Linux distro that I find on the back pages of distrowatch. 

 

When you're looking at Linux distros, the more mainstream tends to lead to the more simple as they are better documented by both users and developers.  The distro has to fit the use-case, otherwise you will run into issues. 

 

That old XP laptop would probably work fine with something like Arch Linux since it's such a lightweight distro.  The problem?  It's not easy for someone who's not experienced with linux to understand how to use and install Arch Linux.  It's like what everyone else is saying here.  Try Mint or some other mainstream beginner's distro.  As you get more use out of it, start exploring the command line and package manager to get more experience with that.  Then maybe start poking around with the more advanced distros that are more difficult to use. 

 

I use Arch on every machine I own sometimes dual-booted with Windos.  I've been using Linux for 10 years now so it comes as second nature to me.  My experience seeing people try linux for the first time is the same as when I saw my parents try to use an apple ipad for the first time -- you stumble at the start.  You don't know how to use it initially.  You'll learn.  After using Linux exclusively for 5 years at one point and attempting to use Windos after that, I experienced literally the same frustrations you complained about in your post.  You're just fighting with a learning curve.  Give it a couple of days and go back to it.

[Linus_torvalds]

10 hours ago, 7he404guy said:

IThat old XP laptop would probably work fine with something like Arch Linux since it's such a lightweight distro.  The problem?  It's not easy for someone who's not experienced with linux to understand how to use and install Arch Linux.  It's like what everyone else is saying here.  Try Mint or some other mainstream beginner's distro.  As you get more use out of it, start exploring the command line and package manager to get more experience with that.  Then maybe start poking around with the more advanced distros that are more difficult to use.

I suggested great solution for that matter. To install manjaro linux, it's based on arch.  It's great for begginers and is in first place on distrowatch. Above mint, ubuntu, elementary and so on. Comes with many programs preinstalled and XFCE version is light. But OP said to me "Manjaro holds no appeal to me for some reason". He probably did not even try. He is new to linux. This is why i do not like to suggest newcomers anything. They do not know for themselves and do not want to listen other experienced user and do not want to even try. He tried some shit like MacPup, bodhi and others like that and manjaro does not hold appeal for him.

[pianopraze]

I've been using Elementary for a few days and I like it a lot. 

 

Better than Windows 10 for sure. 

 

Sorry mate_mate91 I just don't like the look of Manjaro. I'm more of a Mac than a PC guy. And the color scheme is visually unappealing. Appreciate the advice, but everyone has their preferences  

 

The XP box basically crashed and burned so I've given up on it.

 

But the Win7 Dell feels brand new with Elementary. Fast. Stable. I'm booting to Windows 7 sometimes and Elementary sometimes and Elementary is faster across the board. 

 

I will get around to loading Mint and Ubuntu Studio on my Mac Pro eventually. I'm enjoying playing with Elementary for now.

[Sauron]

MacPup? Puppy? Bodhi?

 

Dude, if you're new to linux you have no business using anything other than ubuntu, mint or elementary (and maybe manjaro)! Those are the "easy" distros. Puppy tries to be light weight before being user friendly, and bodhi is... shall we say... a bit immature.

[nanaki]

4 hours ago, Sauron said:

MacPup? Puppy? Bodhi?

 

Dude, if you're new to linux you have no business using anything other than ubuntu, mint or elementary (and maybe manjaro)! Those are the "easy" distros. Puppy tries to be light weight before being user friendly, and bodhi is... shall we say... a bit immature.

If some one wants light weight go with watt os i run microwatt my self and have yet to run in to any dependency issues. They are about as stripped down as you want to go. Watt os 32 should run on even a athlon classic based system. I would say the only drawback is their update cycle is pretty slow. But other than that the distro is solid and stable. 

[Ashleyyyy]

12 hours ago, Sauron said:

(and maybe manjaro)

not for a noob. on manjaro installing spotify is quite difficult if you've never used Linux before.