build First Build List. Any last comments?

[TIceC]

I don't really have much idea of pc building but with some help i managed to get to this list:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3WK2bX    Any comments or suggestions?
 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3WK2bX
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3WK2bX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor  ($249.00 @ Walmart) 
CPU Cooler: Deepcool - CAPTAIN 240EX WHITE 153.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($84.89 @ B&H) 
Motherboard: Asus - Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($164.00 @ Amazon) 
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($151.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($99.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($57.89 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB FTW DT GAMING Video Card  ($489.99 @ B&H) 
Case: Fractal Design - Meshify C Dark TG ATX Mid Tower Case  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($81.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Other: "Phanteks PH-CB-CMBO_WT 19.68"" Cables - Internal Power Cables"  ($27.45 @ Amazon) 
Total: $1496.18

[Syntaxvgm]

Yes. An i5 with 6 cores and 6 threads. Ask me 2 years ago and I would not have thought that was the future. Thanks AMD for competition. 

[AngryBeaver]

15 minutes ago, TIceC said:

I don't really have much idea of pc building but with some help i managed to get to this list:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3WK2bX    Any comments or suggestions?
 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3WK2bX
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3WK2bX/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600K 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor  ($249.00 @ Walmart) 
CPU Cooler: Deepcool - CAPTAIN 240EX WHITE 153.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($84.89 @ B&H) 
Motherboard: Asus - Prime Z370-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($164.00 @ Amazon) 
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory  ($151.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial - MX500 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($99.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Seagate - Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($57.89 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB FTW DT GAMING Video Card  ($489.99 @ B&H) 
Case: Fractal Design - Meshify C Dark TG ATX Mid Tower Case  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($81.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Other: "Phanteks PH-CB-CMBO_WT 19.68"" Cables - Internal Power Cables"  ($27.45 @ Amazon) 
Total: $1496.18

Don't go with the DT version of that card. The DT's are 1080 ftw's that didn't pass the QC for being able to maintain the factory overclock speeds. Meaning they are poorly binned cards.

[TIceC]

25 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Don't go with the DT version of that card. The DT's are 1080 ftw's that didn't pass the QC for being able to maintain the factory overclock speeds. Meaning they are poorly binned cards.

What GPU version of the 1080 for less than 550$ would you recomend insted of that one?

[AngryBeaver]

10 minutes ago, TIceC said:

What GPU version of the 1080 for less than 550$ would you recomend insted of that one?

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/V4M323/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-windforce-oc-8g-video-card-gv-n1080wf3oc-8gd

or

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jPX2FT/evga-video-card-08gp46181

[pcmr2066]

58 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Don't go with the DT version of that card. The DT's are 1080 ftw's that didn't pass the QC for being able to maintain the factory overclock speeds. Meaning they are poorly binned cards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's the case. DT variant means de-tuned, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are poorly binned cards. Lots of assumptions are being made about these cards. But the truth is, they're just the same as any other non-binned cards. Some OC as high as regular ones, and some don't. Still the same silicon lottery.

 

31 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jPX2FT/evga-video-card-08gp46181

Please don't think I'm hating on you, but this card is "Gaming" and "ACX" which is actually the worst card in EVGA's 1080 lineup.

 

46 minutes ago, TIceC said:

What GPU version of the 1080 for less than 550$ would you recomend insted of that one?

You may stick with your current GPU with no problem. Alternatively, you can check this card out: MSI GTX 1070 TI TITANIUM 8G. The Titanium variant looks really awesome on a white themed PC. Though it's not available in the GTX 1080. But it's the best MSI Variant of the GTX 1070 Ti.

[AngryBeaver]

1 hour ago, pcmr2066 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's the case. DT variant means de-tuned, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are poorly binned cards. Lots of assumptions are being made about these cards. But the truth is, they're just the same as any other non-binned cards. Some OC as high as regular ones, and some don't. Still the same silicon lottery.

 

Please don't think I'm hating on you, but this card is "Gaming" and "ACX" which is actually the worst card in EVGA's 1080 lineup.

 

You may stick with your current GPU with no problem. Alternatively, you can check this card out: MSI GTX 1070 TI TITANIUM 8G. The Titanium variant looks really awesome on a white themed PC. Though it's not available in the GTX 1080. But it's the best MSI Variant of the GTX 1070 Ti.

They are not the "worst cards" They are good reference design cards. They will generally have the same OC potential as a normal card, but might not come with as high of a factory overclock. That being said you will be limited by temps or stability long before power on these cards.

 

Also the DT cards ARE cards that failed to meet the FTW criteria for factory overclocks. It doesn't mean they cannot do so, it means that in order to do so they fall outside of the range EVGA set for overclock to voltage range. Meaning they MIGHT still overclock to the normal FTW levels, but they require much more voltage to do so.

[pcmr2066]

14 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

They are not the "worst cards" They are good reference design cards. They will generally have the same OC potential as a normal card, but might not come with as high of a factory overclock. That being said you will be limited by temps or stability long before power on these cards.

They are the worst cards in this lineup. The Gaming series is like the DT of the SC Gaming series. The FTW DT is a better card in terms of design.

 

Aesthetics: FTW > SC Gaming = Gaming

Performance: ICX > ACX

ICX is also denoted by having the number "2". e. g. FTW2, SC2

Gaming Performance: FTW2 > SC2 > FTW > SC > DT Variants = Gaming

(I did not include Classified card anymore because EVGA stopped their production of these due to Nvidia's restriction in binning)

 

 

16 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Also the DT cards ARE cards that failed to meet the FTW criteria for factory overclocks. It doesn't mean they cannot do so, it means that in order to do so they fall outside of the range EVGA set for overclock to voltage range. Meaning they MIGHT still overclock to the normal FTW levels, but they require much more voltage to do so.

Sorry, but this is not true. These are merely assumptions made by people such as you. I've made my research, and DT cards aren't what you assume they are. You seem to be uninformed. If you will stick with your assumption, then the Gaming Series you are suggesting is also a poorly binned card that can't overclock to voltage range of SC cards making it just as worse as DT.

[AngryBeaver]

8 minutes ago, pcmr2066 said:

Sorry, but this is not true. These are merely assumptions made by people such as you. I've made my research, and DT cards aren't what you assume they are. You seem to be uninformed. If you will stick with your assumption, then the Gaming Series you are suggesting is also a poorly binned card that can't overclock to voltage range of SC cards making it just as worse as DT

Or you can reach out to EVGA directly and confirm the information I have provided. They are more than happy to give you this information and our upfront with it, which is why I always choose EVGA.

From these forums:

from EVGA

https://forums.evga.com/differences-between-GTX-1070-FTW-and-GTX-1070-FTW-DT-m2525407.aspx#2525409

 

 

 

 

Quote

They are the worst cards in this lineup. The Gaming series is like the DT of the SC Gaming series. The FTW DT is a better card in terms of design.

 

Aesthetics: FTW > SC Gaming = Gaming

Performance: ICX > ACX

ICX is also denoted by having the number "2". e. g. FTW2, SC2

Gaming Performance: FTW2 > SC2 > FTW > SC > DT Variants = Gaming

(I did not include Classified card anymore because EVGA stopped their production of these due to Nvidia's restriction in binning)

Now as to this... this is also incorrect. If you are looking at just factory OC, then you might have an argument. If you are looking at enhanced power delivery from a non-reference card then sure... it does make them have an edge.

 

The fact though is that while those things can give these cards a higher OC ceiling that rarely comes in to play. These cards will reach thermal limits before they hit power delivery limits. These cards are also not binned, which is why you have the DT cards. So a SC card could very well out OC a FTW and it happens. So the ICX cards might have a better cooler, but again this is only of minimal gain since they will still both be capable at keeping the temps in check and reducing the boost drops due to temps.

 

So while some cards have more bells and whistles that doesn't make them inferior cards when it comes to performance and OC potential... except with the DT cards which have actually been binned due to failing QC for FTW standards.

[pcmr2066]

6 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Or you can reach out to EVGA directly and confirm the information I have provided. They are more than happy to give you this information and our upfront with it, which is why I always choose EVGA.

From these forums:

from EVGA

https://forums.evga.com/differences-between-GTX-1070-FTW-and-GTX-1070-FTW-DT-m2525407.aspx#2525409

 

Now if you read what you linked, then EVGA didn't say that these cards are binned. Btw, for OCed FTW and SC, EVGA doesn't use binning in a traditional sense of choosing a GPU based on ASIC quality. OCed cards are of course pre-tested to run at their factory overclocks, but they are not binned.

 

6 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

DT cards which have actually been binned due to failing QC for FTW standards.

Now, let's stick with the facts shall we:

1.) ALL statements that say that DT cards are the ones that failed QC for FTW standards are assumptions. EVGA Tech Support NEVER confirmed that they are.

2.) If you ask EVGA about the difference of DT and Regular, they will just say that the "DT" does not come with a factory overclock.

3.) Some DT owners have confirmed to reach 2050mhz stable. While some Regular FTW owners have issues maintaining a stable 2050mhz. Thus confirming that the cards aren't binned. Regular FTW cards are simply tested to run their factory overclocks. Never a guarantee that they are always better than DT.

 

[AngryBeaver]

20 minutes ago, pcmr2066 said:

Now if you read what you linked, then EVGA didn't say that these cards are binned. Btw, for OCed FTW and SC, EVGA doesn't use binning in a traditional sense of choosing a GPU based on ASIC quality. OCed cards are of course pre-tested to run at their factory overclocks, but they are not binned.

 

Now, let's stick with the facts shall we:

1.) ALL statements that say that DT cards are the ones that failed QC for FTW standards are assumptions. EVGA Tech Support NEVER confirmed that they are.

2.) If you ask EVGA about the difference of DT and Regular, they will just say that the "DT" does not come with a factory overclock.

3.) Some DT owners have confirmed to reach 2050mhz stable. While some Regular FTW owners have issues maintaining a stable 2050mhz. Thus confirming that the cards aren't binned. Regular FTW cards are simply tested to run their factory overclocks. Never a guarantee that they are always better than DT.

 

No but DT cards are confirmed not to hit factory OC levels with acceptable voltage. Argue all you want, but this is 100% factual information.

[pcmr2066]

21 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

No but DT cards are confirmed not to hit factory OC levels with acceptable voltage. Argue all you want, but this is 100% factual information.

I would appreciate if you can show me an EVGA Tech Support who actually said that. Or proof, at least.

[AngryBeaver]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:51 PM, pcmr2066 said:

I would appreciate if you can show me an EVGA Tech Support who actually said that. Or proof, at least.

https://forums.evga.com/1080-FTW-DT-m2506026.aspx

 

Scroll down to the part that says:

Quote

It goes back to this: http://www.evga.com/articles/01022/evga-wysiwyg/ 
 
All SC and FTW cards are strenuously tested in order to ensure they can meet the advertised frequency. Not all cards can, but in a lot of cases, they can still overclock fine or even great, because we also test base frequency under certain intense situations, even though under boost clock scenarios it may overclock really high or perhaps even to the same level as standard FTW. In other scenarios they may have been on the absolute edge of meeting it.
 
The FTW still has the benefits of RGB lighting, 10 power phases, dual BIOS, etc. And of course, it is also at a lower price than the standard FTW part.

The above was posted by the PRODUCT MANAGER.

[pcmr2066]

1 hour ago, AngryBeaver said:

it may overclock really high or perhaps even to the same level as standard FTW. In other scenarios they may have been on the absolute edge of meeting it.

I don't know how you're not understanding this. But it basically tells us that DT cards can be the same level as a standard FTW. While some don't. Which corresponds exactly to what I was saying that these cards aren't binned in the traditional sense of choosing via the ASIC quality. They are simply tested to run well at their rated speeds. 

[AngryBeaver]

23 minutes ago, pcmr2066 said:

I don't know how you're not understanding this. But it basically tells us that DT cards can be the same level as a standard FTW. While some don't. Which corresponds exactly to what I was saying that these cards aren't binned in the traditional sense of choosing via the ASIC quality. They are simply tested to run well at their rated speeds. 

I think you are misunderstanding me. I have said and will continue to say these are cards that could not pass the QC needed to be full fledged FTW cards. So in that regards they failed testing, which means they are of poorer quality than a normal FTW. So while this isn't binning per say by ASIC quality, it is binning in the way of being lesser quality than a regular FTW.

 

Honestly, you ask for something I provide it and you come up with another argument. Just stop. DT cards are of general of lesser quality than a FTW Card. Most of his "might overclock as high as a ftw and might have been on the edge of blah blah blah" are for PR. They still need to sale these cards so he isn't going to bash them anymore than is required for transparency purposes.

 

So let me break this down one last time.

 

A DT card is a card that DID not past the Quality testing. Meaning it failed to hit the frequency required or needed more voltage than they allow to do so. Does that mean they cannot be overclocked? No, they can still be overclocked, but the results will vary meaning they might hit a much lower stable OC than a normal FTW or they may require much more power to do so which will cause high temps and result in boost reductions due to how boost 3.0 works. So while a DT card could in theory in a best case scenario clock as high as a FTW... statistically this will be a long shot. If we look at the best of the DT vs the worst of the FTW they might be close, but once again statistically that isn't going to be a common scenario.

[pcmr2066]

4 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

I think you are misunderstanding me. I have said and will continue to say these are cards that could not pass the QC needed to be full fledged FTW cards. So in that regards they failed testing, which means they are of poorer quality than a normal FTW. So while this isn't binning per say by ASIC quality, it is binning in the way of being lesser quality than a regular FTW.

 

Honestly, you ask for something I provide it and you come up with another argument. Just stop. DT cards are of general of lesser quality than a FTW Card. Most of his "might overclock as high as a ftw and might have been on the edge of blah blah blah" are for PR. They still need to sale these cards so he isn't going to bash them anymore than is required for transparency purposes.

 

So let me break this down one last time.

 

A DT card is a card that DID not past the Quality testing. Meaning it failed to hit the frequency required or needed more voltage than they allow to do so. Does that mean they cannot be overclocked? No, they can still be overclocked, but the results will vary meaning they might hit a much lower stable OC than a normal FTW or they may require much more power to do so which will cause high temps and result in boost reductions due to how boost 3.0 works. So while a DT card could in theory in a best case scenario clock as high as a FTW... statistically this will be a long shot. If we look at the best of the DT vs the worst of the FTW they might be close, but once again statistically that isn't going to be a common scenario.

You're not getting this are you? It's never a fact that DT cards are the ones that failed testing. If you will stick with that argument, then it's even more likely that they would put the failed cards in the "Gaming" series which you initially suggested for OP to get since they are the worst cards in the lineup. That is why no single gaming series card is factory overclocked. No EVGA personnel has confirmed your assumptions.

 

Piece of advice, let's stick with the facts shall we? Don't let pride blind you just to win an argument. We just want the best for OP. And an FTW DT card is generally a better card than the Gaming card you suggested.

[AngryBeaver]

 

 

20 minutes ago, pcmr2066 said:

You're not getting this are you? It's never a fact that DT cards are the ones that failed testing. If you will stick with that argument, then it's even more likely that they would put the failed cards in the "Gaming" series which you initially suggested for OP to get since they are the worst cards in the lineup. That is why no single gaming series card is factory overclocked. No EVGA personnel has confirmed your assumptions.

 

Piece of advice, let's stick with the facts shall we? Don't let pride blind you just to win an argument. We just want the best for OP. And an FTW DT card is generally a better card than the Gaming card you suggested.

 

So you probably aware of this, but Nvidia killed off the ability easily binning GPU chips via ASIC quality. So that means they basically just use a GPU chip in whatever model they are making. Then they do their testing to make sure the chips are of the quality required for the model they are releasing in this case the FTW's. If the card fails, they make it a DT. They wouldn't have the ability to just make them a SC at this point and they still have the other features like RGB, non-reference design, more phases, and a dual bios.

 

The gaming card would likely have higher stock frequencies and boosts. The FTW DT, would have more features on paper like more phases, RGB (assuming the gaming version from what manufacturer doesn't have it), and potentially a dual bios advantage. The problem is the extra phases don't come in to play most of the time on these cards as even a reference card can provide enough power. Then you have the dual bios and rbg, they don't offer anything in the way of performance. So then you have to consider factory OC levels and the gaming would come out ahead hear and possibility OC higher as well due to the whole reason a card is classified as a DT card.  So from a feature list standpoint YES the FTW DT is a better card, but from a performance stand point I would have to disagree.

2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

All SC and FTW cards are strenuously tested in order to ensure they can meet the advertised frequency. Not all cards can

 

 

Also here is a "gaming" card  https://us.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1080-GAMING-X-8G/Specification

 

As you can see it IS overclocked as base boost would be 1733, not the 1847 these are using.

[pcmr2066]

6 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

If the card fails, they make it a DT. They wouldn't have the ability to just make them a SC at this point and they still have the other features like RGB, non-reference design, more phases, and a dual bios.

 

6 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

So then you have to consider factory OC levels and the gaming would come out ahead hear and possibility OC higher as well due to the whole reason a card is classified as a DT card. 

Once again, all assumptions. Even the links you show doesn't confirm this. Stop blinding yourself, okay?

 

9 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

All SC and FTW cards are strenuously tested in order to ensure they can meet the advertised frequency. Not all cards can

"...but in a lot of cases, they can still overclock fine or even great, because we also test base frequency under certain intense situations, even though under boost clock scenarios it may overclock really high or perhaps even to the same level as standard FTW. In other scenarios they may have been on the absolute edge of meeting it."

 

It seems you have to cut statements to try and prove a false point? You need to read the whole statement to get the idea. Don't let ego run you. Let's have a healthy and factual discussion here. 

 

[AngryBeaver]

1 minute ago, pcmr2066 said:

 

Once again, all assumptions. Even the links you show doesn't confirm this. Stop blinding yourself, okay?

 

"...but in a lot of cases, they can still overclock fine or even great, because we also test base frequency under certain intense situations, even though under boost clock scenarios it may overclock really high or perhaps even to the same level as standard FTW. In other scenarios they may have been on the absolute edge of meeting it."

 

It seems you have to cut statements to try and prove a false point? You need to read the whole statement to get the idea. Don't let ego run you. Let's have a healthy and factual discussion here. 

 

I already know I am correct, but to just cut this short lets agree to disagree on this.

 

That being said for the OP. ANY 1080 is going to be a good performer. I would just lean towards one with a great warranty from people like EVGA and with a capable cooler to insure you can use more of the boost clocks it offers. I personally would avoid a DT card as you are paying a premium for a less capable chip with some fluff thrown on top. If RGB, non-reference design, dual bios, and 10 phases are important to you... then by all means get it, but if you can afford it I would go for a full version FTW... which unfortunately atm is about $75 more.