Fresh Install or clone?

[Folktale]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I wanted to clear some doubts. I got an SSD of 250GB and I want to make it as my boot drive. I am using 150GB in the C drive, so the space is plenty for cloning. But I am thinking of installing a fresh copy of windows. If I do install a fresh copy of windows, will these steps be enough?

 

1. Make a backup of the data in C drive to an external hard drive (I have one)

 

2. Turn off the system and plug in the SSD with the HDD still in place.

 

3. Change boot priority (SSD on top)

 

4. Install windows on the SSD and format the C drive during the windows installation (when it gives us the option to where to install OS).

 

Is this the right steps?
 

I know that one should leave some space for provisioning and never to defrag the SSD. Anything else I need to know?

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

It's best to unplug the HDD all together when installing Windows just so you doesn't get confused on where you want your Windows files. 

[Guest]

Yep. These are the right steps. You should not worry about SSD health that much, as long as you don't write like 100GB a day or something you are perfectly ok.

[homeap5]

Quote

Fresh Install or clone?

Clone, always clone.

[Enderman]

Unplug all other drives except OS drive before doing a clean install, and you don't need to worry about provisioning.

When you get to the partitions screen during the installation just delete everything there and click next, it will create the partitions for you.

Just don't fill up your SSD over 90%.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, homeap5 said:

Clone, always clone.

Horrible advice, that's how we get hundreds of posts a year on this forum about "having issues with windows after cloning"

[Folktale]

3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Horrible advice, that's how we get hundreds of posts a year on this forum about "having issues with windows after cloning"

I heard some BSOD issues after cloning. That's why I prefer fresh install.

[homeap5]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

Horrible advice, that's how we get hundreds of posts a year on this forum about "having issues with windows after cloning"

Horrible is when someone install the same system every disk change. It has no sense!

 

Do you have any experience with cloning, or just repeat myths that "fresh install is more fresh"? I have that experience, made lot of clones for lot of people, even to completely different hardware, so please - do not say that bytes are nicer and bits (if you use microscope) looks prettier when someone made "fresh" install. Fresh install is needed when you made new system installation (for example - you want to use win10 for the first time). All other installations are waste of time. I never has problems with cloned system and, as I said, I made lot of cloning.

 

Of course some advices how to do it proper are always good (for example - you should cloning system that is offline), but problem with cloned system is rare. The only once I have BSOD after cloning was when I was trying to use cloning software while system is working. After that I find that it's not a good way to do it proper, even if Windows gives that possibility.

 

I've read lot of posts since I register here, but almost all of them was about "I made fresh install / reinstall and now I have problem".

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Folktale said:

I heard some BSOD issues after cloning. That's why I prefer fresh install.

Yeah, along with all the issues that happen weeks or months after cloning such as windows updates failing to install or the OS running slower than normal.

[homeap5]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

Yeah, along with all the issues that happen weeks or months after cloning such as windows updates failing to install or the OS running slower than normal.

And because someone cloned his system, everything that happens after months may be "because of cloning". GPU failed? Oh, system was cloned.

I really though that I meet more professional users here, on forum, who has more experience than only experience with install the same system again and again.

Please, do not repeat myths.

[Enderman]

5 minutes ago, homeap5 said:

Horrible is when someone install the same system every disk change. It has no sense!

A clean install is the proper way moving an OS to a different drive or system.

If you want you can search google for "issues after cloning" to see the hundreds of thousands of problems it causes.

Plenty of times people have issues with windows updates or programs misbehaving and it's because they cloned/migrated a long time ago.

 

Doing a clean install the proper way is not hard and only takes an hour or two.

Anyone who wants their computer to work properly in the future should do it the proper way, not take the shortcuts and clone.

In the end they will need to clean install to fix the issue anyway, resulting in no time or effort saved.

[homeap5]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

A clean install is the proper way moving an OS to a different drive or system.

If you want you can search google for "issues after cloning" to see the hundreds of thousands of problems it causes.

Plenty of times people have issues with windows updates or programs misbehaving and it's because they cloned/migrated a long time ago.

 

Doing a clean install the proper way is not hard and only takes an hour or two.

Anyone who wants their computer to work properly in the future should do it the proper way, not take the shortcuts and clone.

Sorry, but I fully disagree. Lot of people have problems with their systems no matter if they made fresh install or not.

And clean install is NOT proper way for MOVING OS to different drive! It not has even sense! If you want to MOVE your system, you clone it. Fresh install not MOVE anything anywhere.

 

Clean install takes hour or two? With all additional programs that people use? With all settings of that programs? With all changes that you made in system, because you can do it? With everything? Man, if you using computer professional, then even week is not enough to move everything, every settings (sometimes even registry keys) etc.

 

Maybe you just use "fresh" Windows without any settings, and do not use any other programs, but people who serious works on their computers, have lot of stuff. And reinstalling everything may take LOT of time. Just do not waste your time and made clone proper. I have that experience, you don't (reading some posts on internet is not experience, sorry).

 

And last question - do you really believe that companies who sell you laptops, hire lot of workers to make fresh install everything on every laptop? Lol, every laptop you buy has cloned system.

[Enderman]

9 minutes ago, homeap5 said:

Sorry, but I fully disagree.

Good for you, now go solve the hundreds of thousands of problems that happen to all those people who cloned then.

 

Anyone who keeps their computer and files in an organized fashion will have no problem doing a clean install, reinstalling a few programs, and copy pasting the data back to their respective folders.

 

Maybe you're not one of those people and are just too afraid to clean install, but I know you've definitely had problems with windows updates or something to do with the OS.

You can probably even go to event viewer and see all the things wrong with your system that are happening in the background.

 

You think you have "experience" when you don't even know that a clean install is the proper way of doing things...

Wow, keep taking shortcuts then if you enjoy windows problems  glad it's not my PC, I actually care about reliability and uptime.

[Folktale]

I thought installing applications on an SSD was supposed to be fast.

[homeap5]

1 hour ago, Folktale said:

I thought installing applications on an SSD was supposed to be fast.

If you have a list of all applications that you're using and never configure them (only default configurations), and if you have all installers saved in one place (updated of course) and if you never using any commercial addons, plugins or programs that needs to be activated again when system changed - then yes, it's fast. Still much slower than cloning everything but fast enough.

 

Ah, I forgot about Windows settings - they all must be done again, unless you using only default settings and changes nothing.

 

But seriosly - few advices how to clone system proper, because it may be sometimes right that bad cloning may cause problems.

 

1. Never, ever clone working system. Even if Windows provide Volume Shadow Copy service that is used by few clone programs, still something may go wrong. So use different computer or just second operating system to clone system and prevent access to disk by removing letter in diskmgmt.msc (just in case). In case you don't have possibility to boot from another system or have no access to second computer - Macrium Reflect (for example) has possibility to create Rescue Media - bootable version of program. So install Macrium Reflect, prepare Rescue USB and boot from USB - and then made backup.

2. Is good when you have third HDD - I always made images instead of direct cloning and then restore that images into another hard disk. Restore image gives you possibility to set everything on destination drive - expand system partition (or, if disk is smaller, Macrium shrink partition automatically) or even set proper alignment (if you want to copy old Windows XP from old HDD to new SSD for example).

3. After restore image, boot from new SSD/HDD only - unplug all other drives and boot from new disk only. It changes entries in registry and you'll be sure that your system reads files from new disk. You can also delete all "MountedDevices" from registry if you want to made it more "fresh".

4. If you changed motherboard use programs that removes old drivers (Ghostbuster for example).

 

There are also methods to change UEFI boot to Legacy (and vice versa) without reinstalling system. I have one computer cloned that way and some years ago I switch my win7 installation from Legacy to UEFI (and from old mobo to new). My win7 was installed on 3 or 4 drives with lot of hardware changes and I still have it on my second SSD just in case (for fixing some bios entries on my main system if I broke something or just for made clones of system; I still have few VST plugins that needs to be re-registered on win10, so I keep it until I move everything). After 4 or 5 years nothing happens, no blue screens, no stability problems etc. Now I'm write here using cloned system too - I bough new, bigger SSD, so my Win10 was moved first from old small Agility3 to old but bigger EVO 840 first (when I was using win7 still as my main os) and then, after I prepare everything and completed migration from win7 to win10, was cloned again to bigger 860 EVO. And surprise - not even one small problem.

[homeap5]

2 hours ago, Enderman said:

Maybe you're not one of those people and are just too afraid to clean install, but I know you've definitely had problems with windows updates or something to do with the OS. You can probably even go to event viewer and see all the things wrong with your system that are happening in the background.

 

You think you have "experience" when you don't even know that a clean install is the proper way of doing things...

Wow, keep taking shortcuts then if you enjoy windows problems  glad it's not my PC, I actually care about reliability and uptime.

IMO you know nothing about cloning (you're probably smarter than people who made cloning software - they should close their websites and write that fresh install is the only method), your conclusions are bad (my event viewer is clean, updates are installed without problem, my system never freezes and I have no BSOD etc, but of course you'll never believe that), you have absolutely no experience with Windows because all you know is how to install it again and again. You may be more experienced user here, on forum, with much larger number of posts, but I never want to get any advices from someone who thinks that copying files changes them and makes system unstable. Paragon Drive Copy, Clonezilla, Acronis Disk Director, Macrium Reflect, EaseUS Todo Backup, AOMEI Backupper, DriveImage - that program creates people who know nothing and you must explain them that they have no experience (and probably they have not updated systems because of cloning, lol).

 

I can give you lot of arguments and facts, but it's pointless. You know better, even if you know only one method to "move" windows to new HDD/SSD. I'm really too old to listen all that myths people says about "fresh install". You have zero experience but you know better - congratulations.

 

My proposition - stop this discussion. Folktale may do whatever he wants. It's his system, his computer and he may choose how many time he wants to waste. He knows my arguments and yours. And it's his choice who he believes.

[Enderman]

2 hours ago, homeap5 said:

IMO you know nothing about cloning (you're probably smarter than people who made cloning software - they should close their websites and write that fresh install is the only method)

They definitely should, just take a look at all the negative reviews on something like the samsung SSDs (which come with cloning software)

Guess what?

Pretty much all the negative reviews are about problems they had during or after cloning their drive.

 

Unfortunately all those pieces  of cloning and migrating software aren't going away because there are always plenty of lazy people who refuse to learn how to do things the right way  just means more work for people who need to fix their problems.

 

You're evidence is anecdotal.

I learnt in statistics to take a large sample size, not just "this one person says cloning is good" which is why I do research.

It's almost as if you're completely ignoring the hundreds of thousands of posts on the internet about people having problems cloning.

You know who else blindly ignores evidence and instead resorts to personal attacks? Donald trump  haha

[homeap5]

Stop that crap! "Hundreds of thousands"? They should close their websites, because you know better? You're true and proud megalomaniac.

 

Making good clone is not as easy as installing "fresh" Windows. Even worst non-experienced user can install this software, it's nothing hard. "Brick on enter key and Windows installs itself" (of course figuratively speaking). Making proper copy and restore that copy - it's a little more complicated, but not that much, so even you can do it if you'll try (and then you can find differences - probably worse quality of wallpaper, mouse pointer less precise, games a little less interesting, who knows).

 

First rule of everything should be - do not speak if you do not know. And you don't know - that is for sure. You can't read with understanding or interpret facts. You can type "windows installation gone wrong" and you'll get over 20 millions results in google. Is that mean that fresh install makes problems? No, people have problems with everything related to computers. They use wrong pendrives, bad DVD, they have problem with hardware etc. My friend reinstall windows because his keyboard stops working - and guess what... after reinstall keyboard still not working! Do I blame "fresh install" for that? The same wrong conclusions you have after you google "windows clone problem" (btw. most of results are not about stability, but about boot problem, which is result of using bad cloning software or bad settings - that is why learning and experience is important).

 

People have problems with everything, it's normal. And experienced users helps them to resolve their problems. Personally I prefer to help someone who has problem with cloning system (at least I know that he wants to learn something new and more advanced) than helps users who reinstall windows every time something is wrong.

 

I don't care about Donald Trump, but I bet that he never used cloning software. He always made fresh install - that's for sure.

 

[homeap5]

This guy for sure don't know what he is doing. Right?

Someone must explain him that the only way is to install fresh Windows. LOL!

 

Sorry, I could not resist.