Air Flow or Static Pressure

[Mr.Huggles]

I'm nearly finished picking parts for my first custom pc, but have run into a small dilemma in regards to what fan I should look to install for venting air out the top/front.  My case of choice is the Evolv Shift, by phanteks, and I've going with a dual water cooled gpu/cpu set up.  That should keep it fairly cool given the cases for optimization for air flow and given the case is basically a mini smoke stack the hot air should just rise up and out of the slotted vent on the top.  Unfortunately that's also were the IO is so there can't be a fan mounted to it for added assistance.  What I do have the option for is one on the top half of the front panel, but that front panel is completely solid and only allows for air to pass through the sides, top, and bottom by about 1 inch or slightly less of clearance.  A friend thinks that I should be fine with a 140mm fan oriented towards airflow and some static pressure (thinking of using a silent wing 3), but I'm curious to hear some second opinions.  Obviously static flow fans would be best, but for someone that is wanting a super silent rig most decent static flow fans seem to be on the louder side (25-35 dcbl) so not sure what i should do.

Keep the silent fan that's only OK for static pressure, or sacrifice noise for something that can push air better?

[Streetguru]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Huggles said:

 

Why don't you just buy a case that actually has airflow?

Did you already but the parts? if not what budget/country/monitor resolution/refresh rate.

[Mr.Huggles]

4 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Why don't you just buy a case that actually has airflow?

Did you already but the parts? if not what budget/country/monitor resolution/refresh rate.

I'm going with this case for a few reasons.

1. I need something that has air intake from the side/back and not the bottom since it may be on carpet.
2. I would like something small that i could potentially put on my desk instead of on the floor (may do both, depending on if i need more desk for a project).
3. I really like how it looks and it would go great with my office set up.

I've gone over a lot of cases and i'm set on going with this even though it's not the best for air flow.  Most cases that look good aren't great for air flow and it seems even more rare to find something this small that suits my needs so well.  Since people have been having successful builds in cases like this for a few years, i'm sure there's a way to do what i'm wanting to do.  Just need to find the people on the internet with the experience for building with cases like this.

[Streetguru]

Just now, Mr.Huggles said:

 

Just buy a Q300L? You can do basically any orientation you want with that case, you can even invert it by moving the feet, otherwise large list after that

http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mini-tower/masterbox-q300l/
 

 

 

[meenmeen1103]

What CPU/GPU do you plan on using? Also, dual 120mm rads or single?

[Mr.Huggles]

1 minute ago, meenmeen1103 said:

What CPU/GPU do you plan on using? Also, dual 120mm rads or single?

1070ti hybrid and ryzen 2600 with a cooler master lite 120mm.  there's only room for AIO's so it'll be dual 120 rads in a push config and a 140 fan to help pull the hot air out the top/front.

[WoodenMarker]

33 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Just buy a Q300L? You can do basically any orientation you want with that case, you can even invert it by moving the feet, otherwise large list after that
http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mini-tower/masterbox-q300l/

The Q300L isn't nearly as small with a footprint that's twice as big as the Shift at 87000 vs 46500mm³.

 

SW3's are good but NF-A14's would be better for static pressure if you're running fans at low rpm. Evolv cases are very restrictive and you should be trying to get fans with high static pressure when possible.

[Wh0_Am_1]

1 hour ago, Mr.Huggles said:

I'm nearly finished picking parts for my first custom pc, but have run into a small dilemma in regards to what fan I should look to install for venting air out the top/front.  My case of choice is the Evolv Shift, by phanteks, and I've going with a dual water cooled gpu/cpu set up.  That should keep it fairly cool given the cases for optimization for air flow and given the case is basically a mini smoke stack the hot air should just rise up and out of the slotted vent on the top.  Unfortunately that's also were the IO is so there can't be a fan mounted to it for added assistance.  What I do have the option for is one on the top half of the front panel, but that front panel is completely solid and only allows for air to pass through the sides, top, and bottom by about 1 inch or slightly less of clearance.  A friend thinks that I should be fine with a 140mm fan oriented towards airflow and some static pressure (thinking of using a silent wing 3), but I'm curious to hear some second opinions.  Obviously static flow fans would be best, but for someone that is wanting a super silent rig most decent static flow fans seem to be on the louder side (25-35 dcbl) so not sure what i should do.

Keep the silent fan that's only OK for static pressure, or sacrifice noise for something that can push air better?

OK airflow is optimized for if you have nothing directly in front or behind the fan including grates and air filters, so I would just grab a bunch of good/great static pressure fans, because I have yet to see a case that is well suited for airflow fans.

[WoodenMarker]

2 minutes ago, Wh0_Am_1 said:

I have yet to see a case that is well suited for airflow fans.

Any case with a mesh front. https://www.google.com/search?q=mesh+front+cases&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS723US723&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB1tj75YbbAhUHjVQKHdXYCjkQ_AUICygC

[meenmeen1103]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Huggles said:

1070ti hybrid and ryzen 2600 with a cooler master lite 120mm.  there's only room for AIO's so it'll be dual 120 rads in a push config and a 140 fan to help pull the hot air out the top/front.

I'd say you'd be fine pairing silentwings or noctua 120mms on the rads if mounting rads on bottom (one floor and one lower front) and looks like you can add a 140mm on upper front as well. You likely won't gain much of the noise-to-performance benefit if leaving stock rad fans but choosing a particular quiet/static fan on just the 140mm upper front location.

[Wh0_Am_1]

Just now, WoodenMarker said:

Any case with a mesh front. https://www.google.com/search?q=mesh+front+cases&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS723US723&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB1tj75YbbAhUHjVQKHdXYCjkQ_AUICygC

That still interferes greatly with their performance. Even then I would grab a static pressure fan. 

[Mr.Huggles]

6 minutes ago, WoodenMarker said:

The Q300L isn't nearly as small with a footprint that's twice as big as the Shift at 87000 vs 46500mm³.

 

SW3's are good but NF-A14's would be better for static pressure if you're running fans at low rpm. Evolv cases are very restrictive and you should be trying to get fans with high static pressure when possible.

that noctua looks fairly good.  Just wish their sight gave a decibel level for it at low (unless LNA means something for low speed).  Was looking at the phanteks 140mp which seems to have better pressure than that noctua's low, but hard to tell if that's when it's at max or low (i'm going to guess that's when it's at max).

[WoodenMarker]

Just now, Wh0_Am_1 said:

That still interferes greatly with their performance. Even then I would grab a static pressure fan. 

Obstructions greatly interfere with the performance of all fans regardless of whether they're called static pressure or airflow fans. 

[Wh0_Am_1]

Just now, WoodenMarker said:

Obstructions greatly interfere with the performance of all fans regardless of whether they're called static pressure or airflow fans. 

Indeed but static airflow fans are better suited to combat such instances due to their focus on air pressure.

[WoodenMarker]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Huggles said:

that noctua looks fairly good.  Just wish their sight gave a decibel level for it at low (unless LNA means something for low speed).  Was looking at the phanteks 140mp which seems to have better pressure than that noctua's low, but hard to tell if that's when it's at max or low (i'm going to guess that's when it's at max).

There's little to no regulation on how the dBA spec is measured so it's not a good point of comparison between different manufacturers. Stick to in-depth benchmarks and reviews instead. Specs listed are for max rpm. The LNA spec is for use with their included low noise adapters which are 5v and 7v resistors. 

NF-A14's are very quiet.

3 minutes ago, Wh0_Am_1 said:

Indeed but static airflow fans are better suited to combat such instances due to their focus on air pressure.

All fans have static pressure. The best fan has as much airflow as possible while having enough static pressure for where it's used. Most 'airflow' fans have enough static pressure for areas with low obstruction like mesh. 

[Mr.Huggles]

1 minute ago, WoodenMarker said:

There's little to no regulation on how the dBA spec is measured so it's not a good point of comparison between different manufacturers. Stick to in-depth benchmarks and reviews instead. Specs listed are for max rpm. The LNA spec is for use with their included low noise adapters which are 5v and 7v resistors. 

interesting.  I've tried looking up benchmark reviews on youtube for some fans but generally never found any that gave readings or comparisons to how loud they might be (just subjective, "i think it's quiet or loud" opinions by the reviewers).  I had given up hope of finding quality reviews for something like a fan (seems like an important component but ones often overlooked by reviewers who would rather flock to gpu's cpu's and psu's for the big views).

[WoodenMarker]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Huggles said:

interesting.  I've tried looking up benchmark reviews on youtube for some fans but generally never found any that gave readings or comparisons to how loud they might be (just subjective, "i think it's quiet or loud" opinions by the reviewers).  I had given up hope of finding quality reviews for something like a fan (seems like an important component but ones often overlooked by reviewers who would rather flock to gpu's cpu's and psu's for the big views).

You can use this for calibration: 

NF-A14: 

There's no SW3 but 120mm SW's are similar albeit quieter at similar rpm.

They also have a NF-A14 PWM video but they're using variable voltage to power it which isn't as representative of how it would sound with pwm. 

There are plenty of reviews with different opinions but I haven't found any that even hint at SW3's and NF-A14's being anything other than very quiet at low-medium rpm.

[Streetguru]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Huggles said:

1070ti hybrid and ryzen 2600 with a cooler master lite 120mm.  there's only room for AIO's so it'll be dual 120 rads in a push config and a 140 fan to help pull the hot air out the top/front.

My man just get a better case? that 120mm AIO won't do too much for ya

[Mr.Huggles]

25 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

My man just get a better case? that 120mm AIO won't do too much for ya

Do you have any valuable input to add other than dissing on other people's preferences?

[Streetguru]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Huggles said:

Do you have any valuable input to add other than dissing on other people's preferences?

I've offered a number of suggestions for better cases? Why subject yourself to poor thermals and limited compatibility?

If you want ITX the Core 500 supports tall air coolers and 240mm AIOs

There's also the Thermaltake P1 open air ITX case, well "ITX" is maybe more like it. I assume it's pretty close to the P3 there
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133333&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Cases+(Computer+Cases+-+ATX+Form)-_-N82E16811133333&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5-TXBRCHARIsANLixNxgenCD1a0XCxRQwpKwPLxKSEOw93iY4n4rLpS1GuK2gjzSQ8in1YAaAnTvEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

There's also this lian li case with plenty of airflow like the Q300L
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112575&cm_re=Lian_Li_ITX-_-11-112-575-_-Product

[Mr.Huggles]

24 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

I've offered a number of suggestions for better cases? Why subject yourself to poor thermals and limited compatibility?

If you want ITX the Core 500 supports tall air coolers and 240mm AIOs

There's also the Thermaltake P1 open air ITX case, well "ITX" is maybe more like it. I assume it's pretty close to the P3 there
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133333&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Cases+(Computer+Cases+-+ATX+Form)-_-N82E16811133333&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5-TXBRCHARIsANLixNxgenCD1a0XCxRQwpKwPLxKSEOw93iY4n4rLpS1GuK2gjzSQ8in1YAaAnTvEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

There's also this lian li case with plenty of airflow like the Q300L
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112575&cm_re=Lian_Li_ITX-_-11-112-575-_-Product

OMG You're Right!!

I've been going about this all wrong!
I need to not buy anything pleasing to me and go with everything you're suggesting.  I should never doubt the word of DoG.

[meenmeen1103]

2 hours ago, Streetguru said:

My man just get a better case? that 120mm AIO won't do too much for ya

It was already obvious OP was prioritizing case choice over cooling performance, absolutely no need to continue suggesting other cases.

 

You're right though, a 120mm AIO won't do a lot better than a 212 evo or even the stock cooler, but even the stock cooler does a decent job running stock speeds. That gen processor can even be undervolted from stock to reduce heat while keeping decent speeds as well, if needed.

[Mr.Huggles]

1 hour ago, meenmeen1103 said:

It was already obvious OP was prioritizing case choice over cooling performance, absolutely no need to continue suggesting other cases.

 

You're right though, a 120mm AIO won't do a lot better than a 212 evo or even the stock cooler, but even the stock cooler does a decent job running stock speeds. That gen processor can even be undervolted from stock to reduce heat while keeping decent speeds as well, if needed.

I didn't know that about the under-voltage thing.  That makes me think a bit about air cooling, but when my office is regularly 80-90F i'm thinking some water cooling might still be smarter (though not sure what good that will do with such hot room temp).

[kevinisbeast707]

You could always go with some of noctua's p series redux fans since there's a 120mm version now too. I've had good experiences with corsairs og sp120 qe's being good as well as the af140s having some good pressure and airflow while being very quiet. I've heard good things on the overall performance of phanteks xp lineup but their mp lineup (pressure oriented) I know from previous ownership are very noticeable even at low rpms. I would definitely lean to something that's well balanced though. If money and looks aren't a concern, noctua just released their nf-a12x25 which promises better airflow and pressure in regular useage than both their pressure and airflow optimized fans but it is beige and brown so.

 

Edit: I totally forgot about Fractal's venturi hp fans. They are excellent and are a good middle price.

Edited May 21, 2018 by kevinisbeast707
Autocorrect hates noctua's color palette.

[kevinisbeast707]

Also I just thought of this, if there is sufficient room and money also isn't an issue, a custom loop could work pretty well in that case I'd think. Idk what the max height of the radiators could be in that case but you could use one thick rad and a thin rad and even then use something like koolance's vrm water block so you wouldn't have to worry about vrm temps. I'm currently in the works of custom cooling a slim mini itx case and I'm being limited by radiator thickness but it looks like that case could have a thicker one in the bottom maybe. Though that might require a push pull to remain quieter... Plus a copper rad would have marginally better dissipation than the aluminium one.