Kabylake-X weirdness

[TheGlenlivet]

So the logic involved in releasing a 4 core high end desktop processor that didn't use some of the features of the chipset/mother board and costing more than the equivalent Core processors not withstanding, why was Kabylake-X the lower end processors and Skylake-X the higher end?

Skylake came out first and is lower performing (though not much) than Kabylake.  It's like Toyota suddenly calling the Corolla a Lexus and the LS a Toyota.

Did this just get glossed over by everyone or did I miss something here?

 

[Electronics Wizardy]

The hedt/server platforms are almost always a generation or two behind the main stream. No reason to know why but its probably for more testing before putting these chips in the markets that care the most about stability and error correction.

[App4that]

Kabylake X was a mainstream (4 cores) CPU placed in a enthusiast platform as a place holder. 

 

Skylake X is a 6c+ platform, at the time 6 cores meant enthusiast, also the ability to use 4 channel memory

[TheGlenlivet]

Just now, App4that said:

Kabylake X was a mainstream (4 cores) CPU placed in a enthusiast platform as a place holder. 

 

Skylake X is a 6c+ platform, at the time 6 cores meant enthusiast, also the ability to use 4 channel memory

I know what they are, but why is Kaby the lower end, when it is the higher end in the regular core line up?

[App4that]

5 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

I know what they are, but why is Kaby the lower end, when it is the higher end in the regular core line up?

Because it's really not a matter of higher or lower. It's core count. Intel hadn't placed Kaby Lake into higher core count applications yet, as you said it's a mistake Intel has already acknowledged. Kabylake X was just a ploy to try and suck people into the X platform. If you're gaming a 8700k is better than a 7820X, not because of architecture but the ring bus used in the 8700k, and not used in the 7820X meant to scale to much higher core counts.

 

We see the "enthusiast" platforms as higher, because they cost more. Rather than looking at how they deal with specific tasks. 

[TheGlenlivet]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

Because it's really not a matter of higher or lower. It's core count. Intel hadn't placed Kaby Lake into higher core count applications yet, as you said it's a mistake Intel has already acknowledged. Kabylake X was just a ploy to try and suck people into the X platform. If you're gaming a 8700k is better than a 7820X, not because of architecture but the ring bus used in the 8700k, and not used in the 7820X meant to scale to much higher core counts.

 

We see the "enthusiast" platforms as higher, because they cost more. Rather than looking at how they deal with specific tasks. 

So basically, at the time of x299 launch, Kaby was new hotness and Sky was old and busted, so they tried to put the new name on the launch processors?

They should have called skylake-x something else then.  Weirdness...

[App4that]

8 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

So basically, at the time of x299 launch, Kaby was new hotness and Sky was old and busted, so they tried to put the new name on the launch processors?

They should have called skylake-x something else then.  Weirdness...

Intel uses a monotlithic die, anotherwords all the cores are made together. If you have a new recipe for cupcakes, it will take you a bit to cook a growing number together without flaws happening. Some goes for silicon. Intel starts small, then increases the core count as the process is better understood and yeilds increase. 

 

AMD just makes 4c blocks and glues them together, why there's no need for a gap between Ryzen and Threadripper. Only reason Threadripper 2 isn't out is arbitrary, AMD uses binned blocks in Threadripper. 

 

Both have their advantages, and draw backs. 

[TheGlenlivet]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

Intel uses a monotlithic die, anotherwords all the cores are made together. If you have a new recipe for cupcakes, it will take you a bit to cook a growing number together without flaws happening. Some goes for silicon. Intel starts small, then increases the core count as the process is better understood and yeilds increase. 

 

AMD just makes 4c blocks and glues them together, why there's no need for a gap between Ryzen and Threadripper. Only reason Threadripper 2 isn't out is arbitrary, AMD uses binned blocks in Threadripper. 

 

Both have their advantages, and draw backs. 

Understood, but the issue isn't with R&D or Manufacturing here, it's with Marketing and Sales.

[porina]

Skylake-X, like other HEDT processors before it, was developed in parallel with the server version. This lags the consumer line by about a year, but in that time, it gains additional features. In the case of Skylake-X, it has the restructured cache (which generally works against gaming workloads) as well as AVX-512 (which isn't widely used yet).

 

Kaby Lake-X doesn't follow that pattern. It was essentially identical to the mainstream part, apart from the socket interface (and maybe some minor improvements to power delivery). It's lower end as it is a consumer part in HEDT clothing. 

[App4that]

4 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

Understood, but the issue isn't with R&D or Manufacturing here, it's with Marketing and Sales.

Of course, it is on any side. But, that's thier job. They're pushed to sell, nothing else. They're pushed to sell because any company has people and their families depending on keeping their jobs, which counts on sales.

 

 

[TheGlenlivet]

Just now, App4that said:

Of course, it is on any side. But, that's thier job. They're pushed to sell, nothing else. They're pushed to sell because any company has people and their families depending on keeping their jobs, which counts on sales.

 

 

Well then they failed on this one.

[App4that]

4 minutes ago, TheGlenlivet said:

Well then they failed on this one.

Not on a whole, Intel is up. WAY up. Everyone should have to work sales, just long enough to understand how important it is, and how it's a shitty thankless job. Your numbers are never enough, always the push for the NEXT numbers. Consider Kaby Lake X as a cold call, Intel was seeing if it would work and they got their answer. Nothing lost.