Tek Syndicate Audio Myths with @MayflowerElectronics

[Canoas]

I'm not going to pretend I had time to read every post on this behemoth of an article, but it seems (judging from the decent amount I have skimmed over) that a conclusion has not yet been made. If I am wrong, please do feel free to correct me, I promise I won't cry.

 

However, I would also like to hear what LInus has to say to this as well. I bought a xonar essence stx to go with my HD 600 headphones based on his recommendation and the trust that I felt he had earned. To see such a stark opposite recommendation come out of Logan, who I also happened to like a lot, was quite surprising. Someone dropped the bucket hear and I would really like to know who. I don't mean to throw any more guts in the shark pit but I really am not happy with the fact someone has obviously been a bit misleading (or more than a bit) with their choice of words, whether it was their intent or not. I can't believe with how many experts I thought hung around here, that nobody has been able to provide raw data/facts to prove one way or another what the facts are. I realize that audio is largely subjective but there must be some way right? 

 

Again, not to be rude, but I would appreciate a response to clear this up once and for all. 

 

Here is my take on this:

Do you notice any noise?

Is the sound loud enough?

 

If the answers are no and yes (respectively) then I don't think you should get anything at all, use the on-board you already have. To drive something like your 300 ohm headphones, however, then you do need a better audio solution than your on-board and the xonar essense stx is more than enough as it drives up to 600 ohm headphones. If you buy a new pair of headphone with a really low impedance then you might really need an external solution, but if not then keep your xonar stx, you will not notice any difference from switching to an external dac/amp.

 

The dac/amp, be it on-board, a sound card or external practically comes down to those two factors: Noise and loudness.

[TofuAce]

I'm not going to pretend I had time to read every post on this behemoth of an article, but it seems (judging from the decent amount I have skimmed over) that a conclusion has not yet been made. If I am wrong, please do feel free to correct me, I promise I won't cry.

 

However, I would also like to hear what LInus has to say to this as well. I bought a xonar essence stx to go with my HD 600 headphones based on his recommendation and the trust that I felt he had earned. To see such a stark opposite recommendation come out of Logan, who I also happened to like a lot, was quite surprising. Someone dropped the bucket here and I would really like to know who. I don't mean to throw any more guts in the shark tank but I really am not happy with the fact someone has obviously been a bit misleading (or more than a bit) with their choice of words, whether it was their intent or not. I can't believe with how many experts I thought hung around here, that nobody has been able to provide raw data/facts to prove one way or another what the truth really is. I realize that audio is largely subjective but there must be some way right? 

 

Again, not to be rude, but I would appreciate a response to clear this up once and for all. 

 

 

Here is one explaining how he has switched from ASUS Xonar Essence One to the O2/ODac.

(Side note: Even Linus himself would want people to see his words as one data point/source on things and I've heard him say to take him with a grain of salt in audio reviews before like the previously posted one with the objective2. I highly doubt he looks upon himself as the be all and end all of technology knowledge. He's a cool guy, and too smart to be that way.

 

 

Here we can hear him vent his frustration with this ongoing war in the audio forum. He is referring to a thread that seems to have been moderated now with harsher posts edited or removed. 

Note that he said he hasn't watched any of the Logan/Mayflower vids yet. Also lists specific use cases where an old onboard audio chipset or damaged chipset would not be a viable option over a new soundcard. Another use case in favor of a soundcard over an external usb DAC not for sound quality but for keeping it internal in a pc case rather than having it outside the case.

 

He vents on the audio forum regulars (I think only a couple of statements were unfair about understanding the position we have rather than simple elitism or ego stroking) but other then that I whole heartily agree with his vision for a friendly helpful forum that is as information dense as possible. Sometimes people can go too far, and I've done so before in my many years on the internet. We are human and in the end of the day we just try to improve and do it all again tomorrow. Are there bad apples in any group? Of course. I didn't get to see the unmoderated version of the thread in question, but it seemed it became very inflammatory. That's regrettable, but I feel this time was an exceptionally bad example to our normal dealings in everyday threads.

 

http://youtu.be/6IB7tJu9iqY?t=54m15s

 

 

I would just like to end with a restatement that onboard audio has gotten to a point where you may not need a soundcard. If there is no improvement on audio quality, why not put your money elsewhere like a new set of headphones or speakers! I don't think this is all that outrageous to consider, since as computer hardware enthusiasts, we see technology improve while shrinking in size. Is it so hard to believe we've been able to shrink a proper sound card until it fits perfectly fine on a motherboard? This is a recent development in the last few years of motherboard design (Or at least companies finally decided to), but the word is still getting out there. The audio industry in general (I'm talking about beyond having anything to do with computers) can be a treacherous trek along marketing and made up words to obfuscate the purpose and quality of a product. Simply, products are not competing on a level of pure function and technological design. If you can market a lifestyle, brand appeal, or shiny looks that are more appealing compared with your competition then that is more money going towards your company.

 

I feel that the Audio Forums main goal should be to suggest products that are function over form, rather than form over function. Prioritize performance, purpose, and value for your money over looks and appearance or some gaming coolness factor.Does that mean everything must look ugly? Of course not, but I rather have good performance and value with slightly less looks over a beautiful expensive part that gives me less performance or the latest sponsored MLB gaming team.

 

EDIT:

 

TL:DR Linus can see both sides of the argument and sound cards can serve a purpose in some instances. Also, don't be a mean know it all. Also $30 sound card isn't the worst way to throw away money in the expensive audio world so relax. Any unfair venting is probably due to generalization due to on-air live performance during a show.

[TofuAce]

I did read the thread, and that was basically the argument. Feel free to word it better though.

 

You just told me you simply skimmed through it. Unless you only read it after you said that. If so, you are still arguing points I am not arguing. You are either simply confused on what is being argued, or can not look past general advice that OF COURSE have exceptions to the so called rule.

 

Also, when I quoted that was it, did you edit it afterwards? Anyway, I'll read it now.

 

I made main points bold and sometimes different sizes to dictate what is important and what is simply side notes. Are you claiming there is anything more than that?

 

I never said you were talking about input.

 

You went on and on about input snr earlier. We have been obviously talking about output well before you joined in, and before logan/mayflower made any videos on the subject. Dripping in attitude might I add, calling anyone who you perceive as on the other side of the strawman argument as asinine and having no knowledge of the subject at all.

 

I never said you claimed all on-board audio was better.

 

Great! Then why are you arguing about the exceptions here and there to an OBVIOUSLY general rule of thumb people here state to save others money on buying unnecessary so called "upgrades".

 

I never dismissed the alc898, I said that motherboards with higher end on-board audio codecs will not benefit from a soundcard, but medium-range motherboards will indeed improve quality for certain applications or as a replacement for certain audio codecs.

 

Motherboard chipsets that are over 100db SNR outputs are not only found on "higher end on-board". These are not at all rare or expensive. They are simply more commonly found on newer motherboards in the past few years in increasing number year over year. They are increasingly becoming the norm if not already in most markets and price points. OBVIOUSLY there are exceptions. We are only stating the information about this new trend is not yet widely known, and in  many instances ignored while others suggest you must buy external dacs, soundcards, or even randomly listed headphone amps which the consumer would have been better served with other equipment like headphones and separate mics.

 

Here's a simple table with the codecs btw: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/Audio-Codec-Comparison-Table/520

 

This is just a list of codecs. So what? Many motherboards use realtek for example with outputs over 100db snr. These are not uncommon nor only reserved for top tier enthusiast products. This is not some new trend that only started within a few months recently. It is increasingly common that a user with a motherboard... blah blah blah I've typed this seemingly endlessly today.

 

What I'm saying is, claiming soundcards are generally bad is completely wrong.

 

General advice can generally be wrong. Look, I just made a general statement and anyone can bring up an exception to the rule where I am proven wrong. If you can't possibly guess why someone would try to explain, in layman terms, a general rule of thumb to simplify a complex field which is ever changing as technology progresses and science is still studying with intense interest... then no one here can help you see why.

 

They're not and it's not hard to tell when they are in-fact needed. However, everyone is claiming it's mostly placebo effect when it comes to soundcards

 

(Everyone? You get to use general statements but no one else can? Few if anyone is claiming this. OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS to why someone could benefit from a soundcard or external DAC. ),

 

and yet no one says the same thing about external dacs/amps even though in every single thread here everyone suggests external dacs/amps when they're clearly not needed

 

(I see the contrary all the time. Why do you keep bringing this up? No one is saying always choose an external dac over internal/onboard. OUR POINT IS TO NOT BUY EXTRAS SINCE THE MOTHERBOARD IS PERFECTLY FINE IN MANY INSTANCES, YET AS WITH ALL THINGS IN LIFE ITS ON A CASE TO CASE BASIS. Again, this is why I seriously doubt you have read the thread and understand the position a core group here states.)

 

It is not correct to claim that a soundcard is usually useless when the exact same thing applies to the external solutions

 

(Again, where are you getting all this about external solutions. Why do you get to speak in general yet no one else can?).

 

They're all in the same boat. If a soundcard is sounding better due to the placebo effect then if you get an external dac/amp the same exact thing will happen, the sound is not going to magically be better with a dac/amp if the on-board audio is already good enough. That is simply not a valid argument.

 

(EXACTLY OUR POINT! EXACTLY! OUR! POINT! How do you not see this? You should be arguing with us instead of against us, yet you see tiny little exceptions to the rule and try to argue whatever you seemingly want to argue without caring who you are arguing with.)

 

And that is why I'm asking, what evidence do you have that suggests sound quality improvement with a soundcard is usually due to the placebo effect but external solutions have no placebo effect involved?

 

(NOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOONE ISSSSSSSSSSS SAYING THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!!!  )

 

 

Have a nice day!

[Canoas]

-snip-

I think you're the one who needs to read what has been said in this thread and at least have some notion of what goes on in this subforum.

 

EDIT: I mean, I'm glad you somewhat agree with me, but pretty much everyone has been saying the exact opposite, even to the point of recommending someone with a xonar st to get an external solution instead on this very thread. Go to any topic, the moment someone asks if they should get a soundcard people start saying no and recommending stuff like the E10 or the O2+ODAC without even knowing what kind of headphones or motherboard the dude has. It also seems you're completely ignoring the first 10 pages of this thread as well as everyone else's comments on the 11th and only paying attention to your own.

[Turkatron]

You guys oh my guard.

[mr moose]

The placebo effect does exist, no one questions that, but no one posted any evidence that suggests that pretty much everyone who gets a sound card notices a difference in audio quality due to the placebo effect and yet when people buy external dac-amp there's no placebo effect involved.

 

Again, if you know where it is just quote it. I honestly couldn't find it.

I think the insinuation in the video was that any difference heard was likely a placebo, I don't think he meant it to sound like an absolute.  My personal take is that with all we know about auditory senses it would be a relatively fair statement anyway.

 

What you are not considering is that a lot of people are wasting real money on this. Costly solutions are constantly being suggested to people on the forums when they're simply not needed. Maybe to you guys it doesn't make a difference as you didn't waste any money on it, but it does matter to those who waste dozens or even hundreds of dollars due to bad advice. Remember that this is a forum where people come ask for advice on what they should purchase, not just some random youtube video comment section.

 

Um not too sure how you came to this conclusion because the first question most of us ask is "what's wrong with your onboard?" As opposed to all the 14 year olds in the general forums who jump on and suggest they buy the most expensive asus card they can afford.    Onboard is free on the mobo so our primary suggestion actually doesn't cost anything. Can you link to a post where someone (preferably an audio forum regular) has recommended a costly solution they may not need?

[mr moose]

You guys are giving me data that doesn't matter, and you're missing it. I am asking for specific data from a test that Mayflower used to base his statements on. That is the data between Motherboards vs. Soundcards vs. USB DACS. Anything else is just a waste of data. Its simple as that. I am sorry if you feel that is hard to understand, I do, but I need the data sets he has if I am to believe that any benefits I am perceiving is caused by a placebo effect. This isn't to dismiss his claims, or yours, this is for MY personal benefit.

we're giving you the data that supports the argument, the data you are asking for does not exist.  Is it wrong to voice an opinion based on several small tests that are supported by a large wealth of scientific knowledge?  He ran his own blind test with Logan, there have been few posts recently of people reverting back to onboard from STX's claiming no change in SQ,  a few of us have even done a few blind tests at home, which is why I have a box somewhere with sound-cards in it and none in my pc. 

 

So to sum up:

 

-no large scale peer reviewed study supporting placebo specifically for sound solutions.

-small blind tests that support the science.

-massive wealth of evidence to support the opinion

-and lastly a little bit of anecdotal support.

[Advent]

Yes they do. Every audio codec has a specified SNR rating, and you can very easily check which one your motherboard uses. If your motherboard's audio codec has an an output SNR under 100 then noise becomes audible, and as such a sound card like the xonar will indeed make a difference as it will have a better SNR rating. The input SNR is usually even lower, and a mid-range motherboard will have a bad enough input SNR that warrants the purchase of a sound-card. If you're doing proper recordings, such as for youtube videos, then you will need a sound-card even if you have a 10000$ DAC-Amp combo unless you have a higher-end motherboard.

So, with that said, anyone who claims a soundcard is not better than on-board audio either knows nothing about the subject or is a sell-out with another agenda.

Had you read this whole thread you will note that MANY people (including myself) are saying that sound cards are only good if you are doing  audio engineering/editing or you have high impedance headphones. Other than that most people that have done their own blind studies do not see a difference. Most of the people who see no difference have mid-high end motherboards with excellent onboard audio.

The problem is many people still believe that you MUST have a sound card. Because 5 years ago+ you did indeed need to have one for decent sound.

[Canoas]

I think the insinuation in the video was that any difference heard was likely a placebo, I don't think he meant it to sound like an absolute.  My personal take is that with all we know about auditory senses it would be a relatively fair statement anyway.

 

 

Um not too sure how you came to this conclusion because the first question most of us ask is "what's wrong with your onboard?" As opposed to all the 14 year olds in the general forums who jump on and suggest they buy the most expensive asus card they can afford.    Onboard is free on the mobo so our primary suggestion actually doesn't cost anything. Can you link to a post where someone (preferably an audio forum regular) has recommended a costly solution they may not need?

Feel free to check any other thread in the first page of this subforum then. The first page of every thread gets filled with people suggesting external dac amps before they even know what kind of motherboard and sometimes even what headphones the dude has. Instead of insinuating that it is likely a placebo effect the actual reason why it is not needed should be explained because more than 90% of the comments I've seen today are people claiming that everyone should get the FiiO E10 because it'll make your audio sound better or that sound cards are actually worse than on-board audio. I'm not making this stuff up, look at the other threads and even this one. These videos as well as comments, while not really untrue, are making it sound like soundcards are bad and that external solutions will magically improve the audio because they're not clear enough and people just misunderstand what is being said.

 

 

Had you read this whole thread you will note that MANY people (including myself) are saying that sound cards are only good if you are doing  audio engineering/editing or you have high impedance headphones. Other than that most people that have done their own blind studies do not see a difference. Most of the people who see no difference have mid-high end motherboards with excellent onboard audio.

The problem is many people still believe that you MUST have a sound card. Because 5 years ago+ you did indeed need to have one for decent sound.

When you say "MANY people" you actually mean 4 or 5 as opposed to the dozens of people blindly claiming sound cards suck.

And another problem is that you're making it sound like an external dac-amp is the way to go by constantly mentioning that soundcards are not usually required. There's a big difference between what you're saying and what other people perceive it as. I mean, after all this "sound cards are bad" non-sense started these forums have been filled with comments like this

Because soundcards are typically worse than on-board

And you don't even have to leave this thread, it has over 200 replies and among those there's even people questioning if their Asus Xonar ST sucks and if they need to get an external dac/amp instead without a single person telling him "no, the xonar st is fine" and others claiming that cheaper sound cards, like the xonar dg, are actually worse than on-board audio.

 

So please, make it very clear what you mean.

[Canoas]

we're giving you the data that supports the argument, the data you are asking for does not exist.  Is it wrong to voice an opinion based on several small tests that are supported by a large wealth of scientific knowledge?  He ran his own blind test with Logan, there have been few posts recently of people reverting back to onboard from STX's claiming no change in SQ,  a few of us have even done a few blind tests at home, which is why I have a box somewhere with sound-cards in it and none in my pc. 

 

So to sum up:

 

-no large scale peer reviewed study supporting placebo specifically for sound solutions.

-small blind tests that support the science.

-massive wealth of evidence to support the opinion

-and lastly a little bit of anecdotal support.

 

The problem with this is that those tests are made with headphones that are driven just fine with on-board audio to begin with, of course it's not going to make a difference. Do the same blind test with something like the FiiO E10 and the result will be exactly the same. I'm pretty sure what he wants is a test where the headphones do require something better than an on-board. You will not notice any difference between on-board or an STX if you have 32 ohm headphones, but you will notice it if they're 300 ohm instead.

[mr moose]

Feel free to check any other thread in the first page of this subforum then. The first page of every thread gets filled with people suggesting external dac amps before they even know what kind of motherboard and sometimes even headphones the dude has.

 

 

you mean like this:

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97756-internal-soundcard-vs-external-dacamp/#entry1307570

 

and this

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97787-value-oriented-audio-rig/

 

and this

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97731-driving-a-600ohm-headphone-is-easy/

 

which are the top three advice seeking threads right now.

 

Also most of the stupid recommendations that you are talking about happens when the thread is still in the general forum, but once it gets moved to audio usually posts like this appear:

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97595-looking-for-a-sound-card-for-80-bucks/#entry1305360

[mr moose]

The problem with this is that those tests are made with headphones that are driven just fine with on-board audio to begin with, of course it's not going to make a difference. Do the same blind test with something like the FiiO E10 and the result will be exactly the same. I'm pretty sure what he wants is a test where the headphones do require something better than an on-board. You will not notice any difference between on-board or an STX if you have 32 ohm headphones, but you will notice it if they're 300 ohm instead.

Matching the headphone to the amp is important, we know that.  this doesn't change the fact that the SQ from all devices is on par.  There are of course exceptions, but to most people who don't own $400 headphones they will never hear the difference.

[Canoas]

you mean like this:

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97756-internal-soundcard-vs-external-dacamp/#entry1307570

 

and this

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97787-value-oriented-audio-rig/

 

and this

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97731-driving-a-600ohm-headphone-is-easy/

 

which are the top three advice seeking threads right now.

 

Also most of the stupid recommendations that you are talking about happens when the thread is still in the general forum, but once it gets moved to audio usually posts like this appear:

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/97595-looking-for-a-sound-card-for-80-bucks/#entry1305360

 

Ok, maybe I didn't realise the topics were actually moved from the general discussion, but my point stands. The people that will be "learning" form these videos are not the ones who actually know what they're talking about, and these videos are teaching them false information, wether it's intended or not. So if the dudes in the general forum are getting the wrong idea, what about the other 100 thousand that watched/will watch that video?

And those 3 topics are more specific than the random "Do I need a soundcard?" ones, so obviously those who don't know anything about it will not post. Not to mention this topic still has 10 pages of people blindly claiming sound cards are bad and external audio is good.

[mr moose]

Ok, maybe I didn't realise the topics were actually moved from the general discussion, but my point stands. The people that will be "learning" form these videos are not the ones who actually know what they're talking about, and these videos are teaching them false information, wether it's intended or not. So if the dudes in the general forum are getting the wrong idea, what about the other 200 thousand that watched that video?

And those 3 topics are more specific than the random "Do I need a soundcard?" ones, so obviously those who don't know anything about it will not post. Not to mention this topic still has 10 pages of people blindly claiming sound cards are bad and external audio is good.

 

I didn't go searching for specific topics, they are the most relevant from the first several pages, the rest are asking for headphones or specifically for dac recommendations.

[Canoas]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT.

 

IMPORTANT QUESTION

 

Am I the only one who notices white noise on the TekSyndicate videos?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rXcJuEsy0#t=554

 

 

EDIT: hmm.. there's no white noise during the intro music so it's not on my end..

Logan's mic is either dying or he needs a sound card. This is hilarious.

[Advent]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT.

 

IMPORTANT QUESTION

 

Am I the only one who notices white noise on the TekSyndicate videos?

 

EDIT: hmm.. there's no white noise during the intro music so it's not on my end..

Logan's mic is either dying or he needs a sound card. This is hilarious.

Sounds like fan wash to me (there are like 4+ computers in that room), it could also be the AC system. YouTube compresses the living shit out of content. So it could be making whatever whitenoise/fan wash more pronounced. If it was a sound card issue then wouldn't any audio he put through it grab that white noise? Including the intro music when he rendered the video?

Also it isn't his mic and I doubt a sound card would fix the issue.

[mr moose]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIT.

 

IMPORTANT QUESTION

 

Am I the only one who notices white noise on the TekSyndicate videos?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rXcJuEsy0#t=554

 

 

EDIT: hmm.. there's no white noise during the intro music so it's not on my end..

Logan's machine is either pretty noisy or he needs a sound card. This is hilarious.

it's been pointed out before,  I don't think it's the mic.  And I appreciate the irony even if it is a teensy bit stretched.

[Canoas]

Sounds like fan wash to me (there are like 4+ computers in that room), it could also be the AC system. YouTube compresses the living shit out of content. So it could be making whatever whitenoise/fan wash more pronounced. If it was a sound card issue then wouldn't any audio he put through it grab that white noise? Including the intro music when he rendered the video?

Also it isn't his mic and I doubt a sound card would fix the issue.

 

Nah, youtube's compression doesn't cause white noise, specially when everyone is silent. Noise would actually make the file size bigger. It doesn't sound like fans either.

Rendering the video does not create noise as the audio is added through software. The noise would be from the sound recording, so from the mic or the on-board/sound card input.

 

 

it's been pointed out before,  I don't think it's the mic.  And I appreciate the irony even if it is a teensy bit stretched.

Awww... so I'm not the first to notice.

Also, this is on every video of his.

[Advent]

When you say "MANY people" you actually mean 4 or 5 as opposed to the dozens of people blindly claiming sound cards suck.

 

No, there are more than that in this thread and on the forums saying what I've said.

 

And another problem is that you're making it sound like an external dac-amp is the way to go by constantly mentioning that soundcards are not usually required.

 

I have never mentioned anything about external dac-amps or implied that they are required or not required.

 

There's a big difference between what you're saying and what other people perceive it as.

 

There is a big difference between anything anyone says and how the reader chooses to interpret it. Just like you misinterpreting what I was saying about dac-amps even though I never once mentioned them.

 

I mean, after all this "sound cards are bad" non-sense started these forums have been filled with comments like this

 

Filled with comments like what? The text you quoted from me? What I said isn't wrong. Unless you are doing audio editing/recording or engineering you do not need a sound card. If you have a  low end computer build then you would benefit from a sound card. Most mid-high end boards have great onboard audio.

 

And you don't even have to leave this thread, it has over 200 replies and among those there's even people questioning if their Asus Xonar ST sucks and if they need to get an external dac/amp instead without a single person telling him "no, the xonar st is fine" and others claiming that cheaper sound cards, like the xonar dg, are actually worse than on-board audio.

 

Many cheap sound cards are worse than/show no improvement vs onboard audio on high end motherboards.

 

So please, make it very clear what you mean.

 

Everything I have said has been clear.

[Canoas]

-snip-

Again, by claiming that sound cards are unnecessary people are perceiving it has "sound cards are bad, external is good", which is not true. You do not make your statements clear at all, you're intentionally only giving half truths

 

 

Filled with comments like what?

Can you read? I even quoted the comment. It's filled with comments like the one I quoted. I honestly do not know how I can be more explicit. If quoting is not enough then I'm sorry but I cannot help you.

[Advent]

Can you even read?

Again, by claiming that sound cards are unnecessary people are perceiving it has "sound cards are bad, external is good", which is not true. You do not make your statements clear at all, you're intentionally only giving half truths.

 

How is "Unless you are doing audio recording/editing, or have a low end motherboard, you don't need a sound card" not clear?

 

From my original post "The only reason you need a Sound card for the most part is if you have high impedance (Ohm) phones and they are severely under driver because of this or if you do some crazy audio design/engineering or professional music production."

I later go on to say in subsequent posts that unless you have a low end motherboard or if you do audio recording/editing then you probably don't need a sound card. Which is true.

 

That sounds pretty specific to me.

Most gaming motherboards (mid-high end) have excellent onboard audio.

Also I didn't see your quoted section of text. I read it now and I haven't seen that many people saying that without caveats.

 

[bob345]

This thread just needs to die. Nobody is gaining anything from it right now. its just a bunch of people getting butthurt over other people's opinions

[Canoas]

How is "Unless you are doing audio recording/editing, or have a low end motherboard, you don't need a sound card" not clear?

You never said that. What you said was worded very differently and had other implications such as the sound card not being better than the on-board audio as opposed to the on-board audio aready being good enough. They're two very different things.

[Advent]

You never said that. What you said was worded very differently and had other implications such as the sound card not being better than the on-board audio as opposed to the on-board audio aready being good enough. They're two very different things.

I didn't?

"Had you read this whole thread you will note that MANY people (including myself) are saying that sound cards are only good if you are doing  audio engineering/editing or you have high impedance headphones."

 

That specifically says that unless you are doing audio engineering/editing or have high ohm headphones you don't need one. I then go on to preface that people with mid-high end motherboards have great onboard audio and many see no difference between their onboard and a sound card.

The only thing that was left out was the words low end motherboard. Since I mentioned mid-high end motherboards and that people who have them don't see any difference but left out low end that would imply that anything below mid-high would probably benefit from a sound card.

 

"Other than that most people that have done their own blind studies do not see a difference. Most of the people who see no difference have mid-high end motherboards with excellent onboard audio."

This post was made @ 12:23 AM, I had not slept in 24 hours, so if I wasn't specific and failed to mention the caveat (even though it is implied) that low end motherboards benefit from a sound card then I apologize.

 

[Canoas]

I didn't?

"Had you read this whole thread you will note that MANY people (including myself) are saying that sound cards are only good if you are doing  audio engineering/editing or you have high impedance headphones.

 

Again, half truths. There's a big difference between saying "you don't need a soundcard, your on-board is good enough" and "you will not notice a difference between soundcard and on-board".

 

 

Only noticed this edit now:

Also it isn't his mic and I doubt a sound card would fix the issue.

Why wouldn't it? Of course it would.