Posted February 14, 2018 Sellers have been justifying the price increases of RAM, GPU's, and SSD's as the result of DRAM/VRAM/NAND shortages. I don't want to sound all conspiracy theorist here, but what actual evidence of it is there, besides the companies word? Who's to say it isn't just price fixing? Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 14, 2018 Is it really price fixing? They have a product, they can sell it for what ever price they want. You don't have to buy it. Supply is slowly going up and will be soon, demand is going up faster. Pricies will normally go up so people who need it more get the products. In economics a shortage or surplus is due to incorrect pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 14, 2018 Author 7 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Is it really price fixing? I don't know if it's price fixing, that's why I'm asking if there is actual evidence of a shortage. If there is no shortage, and all companies are increasing at the same rate (which they are), that suggests price fixing. Price fixing is illegal. Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said: Price fixing is illegal. Depends on where you are, this is spread out across many countries and jurisdictions. Currently there isn't enough evidence of price fixing for any government to charge anyone, so id say no there isn't enough evidence, at least yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 14, 2018 Author 15 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Depends on where you are, this is spread out across many countries and jurisdictions. Currently there isn't enough evidence of price fixing for any government to charge anyone, so id say no there isn't enough evidence, at least yet. That's still not an answer (although it is related) to what I'm asking. Is there public evidence of a DRAM/NAND/VRAM shortage? That's quite a few shortages at the same time, and the DRAM one has been going on for like two years now. I think that at least some suspicion is warranted. Not being charged isn't really the same thing as not being guilty. If you don't know, that's fine. Obviously I don't know. Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said: Is there public evidence of a DRAM/NAND/VRAM shortage? no as a shortage is due to incorrect pricing shortage != price fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 14, 2018 Author 4 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said: shortage != price fixing. Have you even been reading my posts? Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, JoostinOnline said: Have you even been reading my posts? Yea and you seem to be swapping the terms around. Is there evidence of a shortage, no as a shortage is only due to price being at the wrong level. And for quanity supplied, it has gone up slowly over the last year or two. For price fixing, nothing is known publicly from what the companies are doing, and no one has been charged so there is no hard evidence of price fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Author 1 hour ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Yea and you seem to be swapping the terms around. Is there evidence of a shortage, no as a shortage is only due to price being at the wrong level. And for quanity supplied, it has gone up slowly over the last year or two. For price fixing, nothing is known publicly from what the companies are doing, and no one has been charged so there is no hard evidence of price fixing. You could just say "I don't know" Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 4 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Is it really price fixing? They have a product, they can sell it for what ever price they want. You don't have to buy it. Supply is slowly going up and will be soon, demand is going up faster. Pricies will normally go up so people who need it more get the products. In economics a shortage or surplus is due to incorrect pricing. Who do you work for? "You don't have to buy it" is bullshit, if you want to live in the 21st century then you need RAM to build a PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 4 hours ago, JoostinOnline said: Sellers have been justifying the price increases of RAM, GPU's, and SSD's as the result of DRAM/VRAM/NAND shortages. I don't want to sound all conspiracy theorist here, but what actual evidence of it is there, besides the companies word? Who's to say it isn't just price fixing? The shortages have been reported by multiple, reputable news outlets, as far as I know. It seems to me that disbelieving these reports, and believing instead that there is a grand, global, undiscovered conspiracy among manufacturers to fix prices, isn't very reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Author 1 minute ago, spat55 said: Who do you work for? "You don't have to buy it" is bullshit, if you want to live in the 21st century then you need RAM to build a PC. Exactly. And people have been saying it will fix itself for two years now. I'm not saying there isn't a shortage. I'd just like to see evidence of it. China is even investigating the possibility of price fixing, so I'm not the only one to be suspicious. Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Author 1 minute ago, Morgan Everett said: The shortages have been reported by multiple, reputable news outlets, as far as I know. It seems to me that disbelieving these reports, and believing instead that there is a grand, global, undiscovered conspiracy among manufacturers to fix prices, isn't very reasonable. Do you have links? Again, I'm not making accusations. But all I've see is "there is a shortage", with no real backing. I don't think it hurts to ask questions. Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, JoostinOnline said: Do you have links? Again, I'm not making accusations. But all I've see is "there is a shortage", with no real backing. I don't think it hurts to ask questions. Links to relevant reports can be found with some brief Googling, which you're capable of doing alone. People say there is a shortage because that's what the reports I've referred to say. It's unclear why anyone should discard this view and instead adopt the other you've raised. What would make one do so, as things stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, spat55 said: Who do you work for? "You don't have to buy it" is bullshit, if you want to live in the 21st century then you need RAM to build a PC. You don't have to buy it or buy as much as your choosing to. You can buy less ram and still live in the 21st century. People choose to buy more ram, and thats driving up prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Does it need to exist? What would that about thbe current situation? Gonna take someone to a court they won’t have to answer to? Main RIg Corsair Air 540, I7 9900k, ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero, G.Skill Ripjaws 3600 32GB, 3090FE, EVGA 1000G5, Acer Nitro XZ3 2560 x 1440@240hz Spare RIg Lian Li O11 AIR MINI, I7 4790K, Asus Maximus VI Extreme, G.Skill Ares 2400 32Gb, EVGA 1080ti, 1080sc 1070sc & 1060 SSC, EVGA 850GA, Acer KG251Q 1920x1080@240hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said: Do you have links? Again, I'm not making accusations. But all I've see is "there is a shortage", with no real backing. I don't think it hurts to ask questions. Look at this https://epsnews.com/2017/11/07/samsung-end-tight-dram-supply-earlier-expected/ samgsung production has been going up. Not really a supply shortage as a demand growth, and supply not being able to rise as quickly. And if the quantiy that people want of dram exceeds the quantiy supplied, the price goes up. No reason to keep the price low. Raising the price allocates the ram to who needs it the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Mick Naughty said: Does it need to exist? What would that about thbe current situation? Gonna take someone to a court they won’t have to answer to? At least in the U.S. companies aren't foreced to make more of a product if people want it. They can make less and charge more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, Electronics Wizardy said: At least in the U.S. companies aren't foreced to make more of a product if people want it. They can make less and charge more. That seems fine. Plenty of companies already do that all the time. Even having a fixed price. Main RIg Corsair Air 540, I7 9900k, ASUS ROG Maximus XI Hero, G.Skill Ripjaws 3600 32GB, 3090FE, EVGA 1000G5, Acer Nitro XZ3 2560 x 1440@240hz Spare RIg Lian Li O11 AIR MINI, I7 4790K, Asus Maximus VI Extreme, G.Skill Ares 2400 32Gb, EVGA 1080ti, 1080sc 1070sc & 1060 SSC, EVGA 850GA, Acer KG251Q 1920x1080@240hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Author 2 hours ago, Morgan Everett said: Links to relevant reports can be found with some brief Googling, which you're capable of doing alone. People say there is a shortage because that's what the reports I've referred to say. It's unclear why anyone should discard this view and instead adopt the other you've raised. What would make one do so, as things stand? 1) I can't find anything that gives more information than "there is a shortage." 2) Telling people to Google is in no way helpful. 3) You should back up your own statements. 4) I'm not the one who raised it actually. As I said before, the Chinese government is currently investigating it. Show me where I've specifically said there isn't a shortage. 2 hours ago, Mick Naughty said: Does it need to exist? What would that about thbe current situation? Gonna take someone to a court they won’t have to answer to? I didn't say it needed to. I just wondered if there was public evidence. 2 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said: Look at this https://epsnews.com/2017/11/07/samsung-end-tight-dram-supply-earlier-expected/ samgsung production has been going up. Not really a supply shortage as a demand growth, and supply not being able to rise as quickly. And if the quantiy that people want of dram exceeds the quantiy supplied, the price goes up. No reason to keep the price low. Raising the price allocates the ram to who needs it the most. That's helpful, but if I read it correctly (I'm very sleepy from work, so excuse me if I missed the obvious), it says they might increase production. On a semi-related note, I just got a newegg email that the RAM kit I bought last year for $55 retail is now "on sale" for $95. ? Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 8 hours ago, JoostinOnline said: 1) I can't find anything that gives more information than "there is a shortage." 2) Telling people to Google is in no way helpful. 3) You should back up your own statements. 4) I'm not the one who raised it actually. As I said before, the Chinese government is currently investigating it. Show me where I've specifically said there isn't a shortage. 1) That's just what I've referred to. 2) Sure it is, as we can see in the fact you've found the relevant press. 3) I have done. 4) You have raised this theory, in your OP. I haven't suggested you've said there isn't a shortage. Anyway, I look forward to your response to my last post: People say there is a shortage because that's what the reports I've referred to say. It's unclear why anyone should discard this view and instead adopt the other you've raised. What would make one do so, as things stand? If your view is that they shouldn't, what are you suggesting they should do? Reserve judgement on the issue? If so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 Author 10 hours ago, Morgan Everett said: 1) That's just what I've referred to. 2) Sure it is, as we can see in the fact you've found the relevant press. 3) I have done. 4) You have raised this theory, in your OP. I haven't suggested you've said there isn't a shortage. Anyway, I look forward to your response to my last post: People say there is a shortage because that's what the reports I've referred to say. It's unclear why anyone should discard this view and instead adopt the other you've raised. What would make one do so, as things stand? If your view is that they shouldn't, what are you suggesting they should do? Reserve judgement on the issue? If so, why? Saying there is a shortage isn't evidence of a shortage. By your logic, if I say "The sky is purple", that means there is evidence that it's purple. The reports don't say how they know there is a shortage. They're likely just saying it because that's what they've heard around. Because you can't manage to provide any actual evidence (other than Google it), I'm not going to reply to you anymore. Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response! PSU Tier List | The Real Reason Delidding Improves Temperatures | "2K" does not mean 2560×1440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 15, 2018 33 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said: Saying there is a shortage isn't evidence of a shortage. By your logic, if I say "The sky is purple", that means there is evidence that it's purple. The reports don't say how they know there is a shortage. They're likely just saying it because that's what they've heard around. Because you can't manage to provide any actual evidence (other than Google it), I'm not going to reply to you anymore. Aside from the fact that's not my "logic", I've already provided the evidence you've asked for: the reports of numerous reputable news agencies of these shortages. It's unclear what other evidence you think I or anyone else on this forum could possess. Beyond that, I note this is the second time you've avoided my questions. You threaten not to reply to me anymore, but in a very real way you've yet to start. Poor form, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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