This Little Contender

[Teonanacatl]

How about this for a budget build? (CAD)
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/kcn4Fd
2 Core 4 Threads
LED Strip on MOBO
1540 MHz Video Card

I want to try to knock a few bucks off by scouting out an old secondhand Dell Dimension instead of buying a brand new mini case and power supply. An optical drive or two and various other parts would be a bonus as well.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-desktop-computers/edmonton/computer-for-sale/1323003278?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

I have two 15 year old (give or take) Dell Dimension desktops, a 4700 and a 4700C, both of which have encountered issues over the years but I've managed to allocate pieces from one another to maintain one fully functional system which is mostly made up of the 4700 and sits in its tower since the 4700C is mostly unmanageable because it has sustained most of the wear and tear and incompatible for the vast majority of components. There used to be three of which my dad bought for himself my sister and I one year. I'm pretty sure mine was a 4600 but it was sold long ago for a good price and the remaining two have been donated to me since they have long since been outdated. So essentially the inspiration for this build is a sentiment to our outdated Dell Dimension series's as a kind of sleeper budget build that matches or comes in under the price point of these systems at the time they were purchased while exceeding their performance. I'm wondering how much of an upgrade this new system would be but I'm also wondering how this build would stand up against my Acer Aspire E1-572G-6854 laptop which I paid about $100 more for. I still have one of each piece of the peripherals which includes the 4700C's 75Hz 17" monitor with the wired Dell keyboard,  and mouse as well as the 4700's sound system to match. 

Advice? Suggestions? Doubts? Recommendations?

[VicciVicVic]

1 minute ago, Teonanacatl said:

How about this for a budget build? (CAD)
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/kcn4Fd
2 Core 4 Threads
LED Strip on MOBO
1540 MHz Video Card

I want to try to knock a few bucks off by scouting out an old secondhand Dell Dimension instead of buying a brand new mini case and power supply. An optical drive or two and other parts would be a bonus as well.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-desktop-computers/edmonton/computer-for-sale/1323003278?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

I have two 15 year old (give or take) Dell Dimension desktops, a 4700 and a 4700C, both of which have encountered issues over the years but I've managed to allocate pieces from one another to maintain one fully functional system which is mostly made up of the 4700 and sits in its tower since the 4700C is mostly unmanageable because it has sustained most of the wear and tear and incompatible for the vast majority of components. There used to be three of which my dad bought for himself my sister and I one year. I'm pretty sure mine was a 4600 but it was sold long ago for a good price and the remaining two have been donated to me since they have long since been outdated. So essentially the inspiration for this build is a sentiment to our outdated Dell Dimension series's as a kind of sleeper budget build that matches or comes in under the price point of these systems at the time they were purchased while exceeding their performance. I'm wondering how much of an upgrade this new system would be but I'm also wondering how this build would stand up against my Acer Aspire E1-572G-6854 laptop which I paid about $100 more for. I still have one of each piece of the peripherals which includes the 4700C's 75Hz 17" monitor with the wired Dell keyboard,  and mouse as well as the 4700's sound system to match. 

Advice? Suggestions? Doubts? Recommendations?

What video card are you using?

[Teonanacatl]

It's in the list:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/YDRFf7/evga-geforce-gt-1030-2gb-sc-low-profile-video-card-02g-p4-6333-kr

[TVwazhere]

13 minutes ago, Teonanacatl said:

How about this for a budget build? (CAD)

Advice? Suggestions? Doubts? Recommendations?

Toss the CPU cooler. You dont need it. the stock heatsink is fine for the G4560.

 

Buy your window license for $30 USD here (hopefully link converts to CAD?)

https://www.kinguin.net/category/22175/windows-10-home-oem-key/

 

Use the money saved to upgrade to a GTX1050. The 1030 is only meant to be a substitute for CPU's without integrated graphics, or for people who need more displays. Assuming this PC is meant for gaming, If you try to use that gpu, you're gonna have a bad time as the Ski Instructor on South Park says.

[DocSwag]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($70.99 @ PC-Canada) 
Motherboard: Asus - H110M-E/M.2 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($61.75 @ Vuugo) 
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($87.74 @ Amazon Canada) 
Storage: Team - L5 LITE 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($55.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card  ($219.99 @ Memory Express) 
Case Fan: Cooler Master - Blade Master 54.8 CFM  92mm Fan  ($7.50 @ Vuugo) 
Total: $503.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-01-15 09:32 EST-0500

 

And then add windows from kinguin.net for $40 ish (or you can just use windows without a product key. You just can't customize a few things)

[Teonanacatl]

Even if it's $50 that's still better than $115. I didn't realize I could get windows any cheaper. Thanks for the tip!

The 1050's seem to have lower clock speeds, higher power draw, and twice the memory. Is it really worth double the price for lower clock speeds?

"Some Intel H110 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Kaby Lake-S CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions."

I don't think I have a different CPU that could be used to update the BIOS.

[TVwazhere]

3 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

Even if it's $50 that's still better than $115. I didn't realize I could get windows any cheaper. Thanks for the tip!

No problem!

3 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

The 1050's seem to have lower clock speeds, higher power draw, and twice the memory. Is it really worth double the price for lower clock speeds?

Clock speeds aernt everything. You have to look at a much broader spectrum of specs, including CUDA Cores for nvidia or Stream Processors for AMD. The 1050 and 1050ti are faster than the 1030 because they have more cores, similar to how an AMD ryzen has more cores but is clocked a bit slower than an intel chip that has less cores. That might not be the best comparison, but it gives a general idea on why a 1050 is so much better than a 1030

 

[DocSwag]

9 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

The 1050's seem to have lower clock speeds, higher power draw, and twice the memory. Is it really worth double the price for lower clock speeds?

Clock speeds isn't everything. The 1050 has double the CUDA cores and performs WAYYYY better

9 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

"Some Intel H110 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Kaby Lake-S CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions."

I don't think I have a different CPU that could be used to update the BIOS.

It's been over a year since Kaby Lake launch. The chances of getting a board with an over a year old bios is pretty much nothing at this point, so getting an H110 mobo is fine.

[Teonanacatl]

Cool, thanks guys. How's this:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x4msbj

[TVwazhere]

10 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

Cool, thanks guys. How's this:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x4msbj

Looks good. Make sure to quote people or tag them in replies  

[Teonanacatl]

17 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

Looks good. Make sure to quote people or tag them in replies  

Sorry about that.

I increased my budget and I was looking at all of the PSU calculators I could find but I'm having a hard time narrowing down how much power I actually need. Allot of these sites don't even list the CPU I'm using or the video card... I'm getting anything from 350W-550W which seems like a pretty substantial margin... I was going to go with 500 based on an estimated average of all the calculators but that seems like way too much. PCPP says I'm sitting at 203W and I figured 300W would be plenty but 380W is the lowest bronze rating I can find at a reasonable price. I figured I would salvage an older lower watt PSU but it seems the majority of these old cheap or throwaway PC's PSU's output are too small. I can't seem to find some middle ground. A little help here would be much appreciated as well as any other feedback you might have.

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/rbhh6X

I decided I'd increase my budget and put this system together for my girlfriend as a birthday gift since her Mac book isn't keeping up with her anymore. I think I'll just scrounge around on ebay for old components to upgrade my outdated Dell to ease my boredom instead of building an entirely new system I don't really need. I can't give her a crusty old tower as a gift ya'know lol 

 

On 1/16/2018 at 12:04 PM, DocSwag said:

Clock speeds isn't everything. The 1050 has double the CUDA cores and performs WAYYYY better

It's been over a year since Kaby Lake launch. The chances of getting a board with an over a year old bios is pretty much nothing at this point, so getting an H110 mobo is fine.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about but I'm not sure I want to take the risk, even if it's only time potentially wasted. I can upgrade CPU's with the B250 boards too apparently. I'm not entirely sure if I can do that with the H110's.
 

I decided to go with what I believe to be one of the higher end 1050TI's based on some of the things I'm seeing in these videos. What do you guys think?
 

I also just realized that this system needs wifi and bluetooth. I know that you can attach adapters to the MOBO but do I need to do this? Don't allot of motherboards have these things built into them by default or is this the only solution?

[TVwazhere]

8 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

Sorry about that

Not a problem! Tagging or quoting us is the best way to get us to reply, as most frequent users have notifications for posts turned off.

 

8 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

I increased my budget and I was looking at all of the PSU calculators I could find but I'm having a hard time narrowing down how much power I actually need. Allot of these sites don't even list the CPU I'm using or the video card... I'm getting anything from 350W-550W which seems like a pretty substantial margin... I was going to go with 500 based on an estimated average of all the calculators but that seems like way too much. PCPP says I'm sitting at 203W and I figured 300W would be plenty but 380W is the lowest bronze rating I can find at a reasonable price. I figured I would salvage an older lower watt PSU but it seems the majority of these old cheap or throwaway PC's PSU's output are too small. I can't seem to find some middle ground. A little help here would be much appreciated as well as any other feedback you might have.

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/Q7L7YJ/corsair-cx-2017-450w-80-bronze-certified-atx-power-supply-cp-9020120-na

 

PSU's are one of those things people think aernt important, yet is probably the single most important thing to a build, period. I'll save you a lot of the details, just know that this PSU linked above is "benchmarked" to deliver very good stable power while being reliable, not "blowing up": (psu's doesn't actually explode it just makes a pop noise and dies) and in the event that it does die, it doensst take things like your motherboard with it, which is much more common to happen with cheap PSU's in this circumstance. If you're interested at all about why this is a good psu, there an entire sub forum for it here.

9 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

I'm sure you know what you're talking about but I'm not sure I want to take the risk, even if it's only time potentially wasted. I can upgrade CPU's with the B250 boards too apparently. I'm not entirely sure if I can do that with the H110's.

You can in fact upgrade skylake or kaby lake (Intel 6th gen and 7th gen) CPU's with either series of chipsets. There's no significant advantage to buying a 250 chipset over 110, except maybe features on some models of board, other than that H110's are usually much cheaper and offer the same overall performance. For your peace of mind, i found a decent cheap B250 motherboard with good features.

9 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

I decided to go with what I believe to be one of the higher end 1050TI's based on some of the things I'm seeing in these videos. What do you guys think?

The cooler on a low end card matters very little. Most single fan cards or dual fan cards are sufficient for coolng the GPU, a higher end cooler is not needed on this tier of card. In fact the card is so expensive you could actually upgrade to a 1060 3gb (which is a bit slower than a 6GB but those prices are inflated beyond reasoning) or you could jsut save the money and buy a less expensive cooler solution, but I figured since you're in it already, may as well use the budget to it's max.

9 hours ago, Teonanacatl said:

I also just realized that this system needs wifi and bluetooth. I know that you can attach adapters to the MOBO but do I need to do this? Don't allot of motherboards have these things built into them by default or is this the only solution?

No. Most do not, only ITX boards are usually found with AC and Bluetooth built in. You would need to find a wifi card for your motherboard, which are fairly inexpensive.

 

I took out the fans and re arranged some things. The case is very nice but it could be cut down further to allow room for things like maybe a 1TB hdd

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Pentium G4560 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ PC-Canada) 
Motherboard: MSI - B250M PRO-VDH Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($83.50 @ Vuugo) 
Memory: Patriot - Signature Line 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($38.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Memory: Patriot - Signature Line 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($38.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Storage: Team - L5 LITE 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($55.99 @ Newegg Canada) 
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1060 3GB 3GB GAMING Video Card  ($299.99 @ Memory Express) 
Power Supply: Corsair - CX (2017) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($56.99 @ PC-Canada) 
Other: NZXT ATX Mid Tower Case, White (CA-S340W-W2)  ($129.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Total: $774.43
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-01-18 08:38 EST-0500

[Teonanacatl]

@TVwazhere

Corsair was initially at the top of my list for a quality PSU but I did a little more digging around since my last post and I found that EVGA's PSU's typically have better reviews and higher ratings on newegg. I've updated my part list to include the EVGA B3 even though the Antec EA Green has great reviews and a five egg rating on newegg out of 550+ reviews. Sleeved cables and modular or semi-modular would be nice but I'm willing to make the sacrifice for a truly quality component. How do you think the Corsair CX compares to the EVGA B3 and what are your thoughts on the Antec EA Green? The lower price for the Corsair is definitely a selling point.

I wouldn't mind spending less money if the H110's are cheaper, most certainly if upgrading CPU's in the future is still an option with this chipset, but I'm still concerned with the incompatibility notice that PCPP gives me when I add one of them to my part list. Are there other chipsets to consider? If I'm upgrading the CPU in the future to one that I can overclock I'm not sure I want to skimp out on too many features. I appreciate that you found me a cheaper board but my other concern is 3 vs 6 audio ports on the IO. I realized that 5.1/7.1 audio is something I really want to include in this rig for a home theater system. The motherboard seems like one of the most complicated components to shop for.

I apologize if this is becoming frustrating or irritating since my ideas are kind of evolving with this build as I continue to explore different avenues and possibilities.

GPU cooling for the 1050's/1060's is duly noted. Another thing that has come up is an additional aspect of availability and cost for these components. I decided to strictly limit my purchases to newegg and amazon only, to save as much as possible on the price of shipping but also because I found that places like pc-canada only have a credit card payment method as I will be paying via paypal/interac. Given these circumstances I chose the Gigabyte 1050 Ti 4GB Windforce OC and I guess the EVGA 1060 3GB you listed is off the table for now since it isn't available on either newegg or amazon for a reasonable price at the moment. I hadn't considered a 1060 3GB before and I wasn't aware that a 3GB version existed until present but now I'm wondering how you think the two tiers compare and whether or not you think a different 1060 3GB is worth the extra $50 or so and whether or not a 1060 3GB would be overkill for the G4560.

Speaking of unreasonably inflated; I was trying to find out just how inflated prices have really become and I discovered that my laptop is currently listed for right around double the price I paid for it almost five years ago. Currently $1100 CAD on amazon (Manufactured 2013). Even my old Dell is going for about $300 CAD on ebay (Manufactured 2004) Half the price that I paid for my laptop with almost a decade between them  That's pretty incredible and kind of made me second guess this purchase/these purchases at this time.

I found some bluetooth and wifi options but I discovered another availability issue, this time with the RAM. It seems that PCPP lists some items as available when they in fact are not which you will find once you visit the website(s) providing them. So given the criteria I'm going by; the cheapest RAM I could find from either newegg or amazon is the Crucial 8GB Single DDR4 2133 with only two left in stock apparently which is an additional $35 from the two Patriot 4GB 2400's.

I'm not really concerned with the amount of space on the system as we use fairly large external drives. That's always something I can add later too if need be.

Lastly; I was wondering why you guys do the "breakdown" for the parts list and I'm also wondering why you excluded the fans from the list. I guess I should also reiterate my budget to a maximum of about $900-$1000 CAD. The graphics card was just one of the things I really didn't want to cheap out on.

My updated list:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/YntcZ8

PCPP indicates a price of $892.39 with the $20 rebate but the total amount I've calculated at checkout is $1,005.92 after taxes and shipping. I'd still like to try and shave down the price a little more.

[TVwazhere]

On 1/19/2018 at 11:23 AM, Teonanacatl said:

Corsair was initially at the top of my list for a quality PSU but I did a little more digging around since my last post and I found that EVGA's PSU's typically have better reviews and higher ratings on newegg. I've updated my part list to include the EVGA B3 even though the Antec EA Green has great reviews and a five egg rating on newegg out of 550+ reviews. Sleeved cables and modular or semi-modular would be nice but I'm willing to make the sacrifice for a truly quality component. How do you think the Corsair CX compares to the EVGA B3 and what are your thoughts on the Antec EA Green? The lower price for the Corsair is definitely a selling point.

In this case, the Corsair CX (gray label) series is better than the B3 in a few criteria from a benchmark, not review, standpoint. From people who know better than I do, here is a list of all the PSU's rated  

On 1/19/2018 at 11:23 AM, Teonanacatl said:

I wouldn't mind spending less money if the H110's are cheaper, most certainly if upgrading CPU's in the future is still an option with this chipset, but I'm still concerned with the incompatibility notice that PCPP gives me when I add one of them to my part list. Are there other chipsets to consider? If I'm upgrading the CPU in the future to one that I can overclock I'm not sure I want to skimp out on too many features. I appreciate that you found me a cheaper board but my other concern is 3 vs 6 audio ports on the IO. I realized that 5.1/7.1 audio is something I really want to include in this rig for a home theater system. The motherboard seems like one of the most complicated components to shop for.

If you plan on an overclockable chip with Intel, the only chipset that can do that is the Z series (X series if you're on the pro-sumer side of the spectrum) And yes, your motherboard is basically the backbone of everything (literally) so it can be hard to shop for to get exactly what you want at times.

On 1/19/2018 at 11:23 AM, Teonanacatl said:

GPU cooling for the 1050's/1060's is duly noted. Another thing that has come up is an additional aspect of availability and cost for these components. I decided to strictly limit my purchases to newegg and amazon only, to save as much as possible on the price of shipping but also because I found that places like pc-canada only have a credit card payment method as I will be paying via paypal/interac. Given these circumstances I chose the Gigabyte 1050 Ti 4GB Windforce OC and I guess the EVGA 1060 3GB you listed is off the table for now since it isn't available on either newegg or amazon for a reasonable price at the moment. I hadn't considered a 1060 3GB before and I wasn't aware that a 3GB version existed until present but now I'm wondering how you think the two tiers compare and whether or not you think a different 1060 3GB is worth the extra $50 or so and whether or not a 1060 3GB would be overkill for the G4560.

The 3GB (while not as powerful as the 6GB version due to having less CUDA cores) is still faster than the 1050ti but a very noticeable margin. A 1060 is not overkill for the G4560, as it's just about at the level where the CPU can barely keep up with it in certain situations (lower graphically demanding games)

On 1/19/2018 at 11:23 AM, Teonanacatl said:

I found some bluetooth and wifi options but I discovered another availability issue, this time with the RAM. It seems that PCPP lists some items as available when they in fact are not which you will find once you visit the website(s) providing them. So given the criteria I'm going by; the cheapest RAM I could find from either newegg or amazon is the Crucial 8GB Single DDR4 2133 with only two left in stock apparently which is an additional $35 from the two Patriot 4GB 2400's.

PCPP is like that sometimes, its usually due to the fact that the site isnt updated frequently enought when things are actualy out of sock, so they sit on the site as if they were still available. I can tell you from personally experience that Wifi card is fantastic, but unless you have an exceptionally good Wifi router (Like the Asus RT-AC68 that pairs with that wifi card that I bought) then you might not get the most out of your money for it. Something to consider.

On 1/19/2018 at 11:23 AM, Teonanacatl said:

Lastly; I was wondering why you guys do the "breakdown" for the parts list and I'm also wondering why you excluded the fans from the list. I guess I should also reiterate my budget to a maximum of about $900-$1000 CAD. The graphics card was just one of the things I really didn't want to cheap out on.

Breakdown is for easy viewing, and we leave the fans out because it's not imperative to fill out all the fan slots on a case, especially when the heat output is relatively low. Thats a bit contradictory coming from me since I did a build almost exactly like this a year ago (similar CPU, gpu, and exact same case) and I filled all four fans slots, but it's because I replaced all fans with Blue LED fans (it was a Blue build after all :p) so it was for aesthetics, not performance. (also hence the unnecessary CPU cooler and PSU cables in that build)