Console-like computers

[InertiaSelling]

Hi. I've been wondering: why does no manufacturer sell console-like computers? The Xbox One X's scorpio SoC is rumored to be roughly equivalent to a system with an rx 580 or a gtx 1060, and only costs $500. What is keeping a company like microsoft from selling barebones or complete systems with x86 APUs of this kind? I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be willing to give up a lot of upgradability for great performance at lower costs, while retaining many of the advantages of a PC.

[YedZed]

They kinda do.

Also, the Scorpio SoC is pretty specialized.

[Lurick]

4 minutes ago, InertiaSelling said:

Hi. I've been wondering: why does no manufacturer sell console-like computers? The Xbox One X's scorpio SoC is rumored to be roughly equivalent to a system with an rx 580 or a gtx 1060, and only costs $500. What is keeping a company like microsoft from selling barebones or complete systems with x86 APUs of this kind? I'm pretty sure a lot of people would be willing to give up a lot of upgradability for great performance at lower costs, while retaining many of the advantages of a PC.

Upgradeability and customization is probably one of if not the biggest reason to having a PC.

[manikyath]

component quality, and actually making a profit on the device rather than the services you sell along with it.

[InertiaSelling]

9 minutes ago, Lurick said:

Upgradeability and customization is probably one of if not the biggest reason to having a PC.

We are hardware enthusiasts, we like to open our stuff, swap parts, change thermal paste, add storage, experiment new cooling solutions, rebuild in other enclosures, and so on. But I'm pretty sure most people would be okay with spending $500 on a machine that can do all of their regular windows stuff and game like what would be an $600 to $800 machine. I'm willing to bet that a content creator with a tight budget would buy this kind of thing, for example.

 

Just now, manikyath said:

component quality, and actually making a profit on the device rather than the services you sell along with it.

Well, that makes sense. Maybe they don't make much money by selling powerful $500 consoles and make up for it by making people pay for multiplayer and basically anything else. That would explain why they wouldn't sell $500 computers with overpowered APUs.

[Cyracus]

well, there are companies that make prebuilt pcs, and there's also laptops that you can buy if you're into the whole no expandability thing. Consoles are cheap because of bulk order pricing, the more you buy the cheaper the rate for individual parts, so while system builders tend to buy hundreds to thousands of multiple parts, consoles are buying tens of thousands of the same parts and only having one model assembled the same way means further cost reduction

[Gikero]

All of the console-like PCs I've seen have to use proprietary parts. Example: Asus's ROG G series desktops. They're designed to be compact, console sized PCs with gaming hardware. I upgraded a few, the motherboards in them are not standard ATX/mATX/ITX boards, they're proprietary. This adds to their cost, meaning these models have a slight premium for the form factor.

8 minutes ago, InertiaSelling said:

We are hardware enthusiasts, we like to open our stuff, ..."

I feel like you answered your own question.

In my experience, most people don't care about upgradability. They see it as a magic black box/tool to do a specific task. Those that do care, will almost always just buy a pre-built, gaming-marketed (Asus ROG, Alienware, etc...) PC or build their own.

[InertiaSelling]

15 minutes ago, Cyracus said:

well, there are companies that make prebuilt pcs, and there's also laptops that you can buy if you're into the whole no expandability thing. Consoles are cheap because of bulk order pricing, the more you buy the cheaper the rate for individual parts, so while system builders tend to buy hundreds to thousands of multiple parts, consoles are buying tens of thousands of the same parts and only having one model assembled the same way means further cost reduction

I know why (new) computers cost more for the same performance. I was indeed talking about mass production of an x86 computer, which would reduce the cost exactly like it does with consoles. Prebuilt desktops and laptops offer less performance for the money in most cases.

 

7 minutes ago, Gikero said:

All of the console-like PCs I've seen have to use proprietary parts. Example: Asus's ROG G series desktops. They're designed to be compact, console sized PCs with gaming hardware. I upgraded a few, the motherboards in them are not standard ATX/mATX/ITX boards, they're proprietary. This adds to their cost, meaning these models have a slight premium for the form factor.

They only need to account for the added cost because they assemble a few thousands of each unit. If they manufactured hundreds of thousands with the exact same hardware configuration like console manufacturers do, it would probably cost less than a custom computer. That's my whole point.

[Gikero]

Just now, InertiaSelling said:

 If they manufactured hundreds of thousands with the exact same hardware configuration like console manufacturers do, it would probably cost less than a custom computer. That's my whole point.

Your idea is why things like the Raspberry Pi exist. Small, single configuration PCs. I realize these aren't x86 PCs but they follow what you describe in your original post.
Market demand is the reason your idea hasn't caught on yet. That is everyone else's point. It might be better for some sets of people, but the demand for it isn't there.

[InertiaSelling]

4 minutes ago, Gikero said:

Market demand is the reason your idea hasn't caught on yet. That is everyone else's point. It might be better for some sets of people, but the demand for it isn't there.

No, you're actually the first person to make this point here. What I don't get is why people wouldn't buy it. Most of the time, supply comes first. People had no idea they wanted an iPhone before Apple released it. I could see console gamers switch to PCs if they offered the same experience at the same cost, with the added benefit of being compatible with much more peripherals and software.

[Cyracus]

44 minutes ago, InertiaSelling said:

No, you're actually the first person to make this point here. What I don't get is why people wouldn't buy it. Most of the time, supply comes first. People had no idea they wanted an iPhone before Apple released it. I could see console gamers switch to PCs if they offered the same experience at the same cost, with the added benefit of being compatible with much more peripherals and software.

Well, there's 2 real competitors in the console manufacturing market and they're targeting one market, people who want a gaming console, but there's dozens of competitors in the prebuild pc market, and they all want to target multiple tiers from can't really afford a pc worth having to big spenders, this means they need a lot of different components like I mentioned before. Basically there's way too much competition for a system builder to go all in on a single price point and expect to survive, but yeah basically comes down to market demand, most people buying prebuilds aren't super computer savvy and really aren't planning to do serious gaming stuff

[Jrasero]

Well to answer your question there are some console sized desktops out there.  The MSI G25 which has the new 8th gen, but starts at $1500 for an i5 and GTX1060 and goes up to a whopping $2000 for a i7 and GTX1070.  You have the MSI Trident 3/Arctic which starts around $800 for an i5 GTX1060 and $1500 for a the i7 GTX1070.  You also have the Zotac barebone systems GTX1060 around $900, GTX1070 around $1700, and a GTX 1080 $1800 but these don't come with RAM, HD, or OS making them expensive options. 

 

Personally while I like my computers as small and powerful as possible and a 5L or less case would be ideal these systems will never be as cheap as a console if you are just gaming on them.  A course if you plan do more than game on the listed system the extra $500-$1500 might be worth it.  Personally I think going up to a 9L or 12L case just provides a better value for the money and provides awesome performance but fitting these kinds of desktops tucked away in a tv console is a lot harder, but the larger case allows full sized cards to be inputted and usually larger power supplies are allocated, making upgrading possible in the future.  

 

 

 

 

[Theguywhobea]

Console's themselves don't actually make any money, they sell at cost of below cost. They make money off the games they know you HAVE to buy from them because nothing else will work. You can't do that with a PC running Windows as the user can pretty much run whatever freeware they want on it and can have really anything they want without buying software from the company that makes the hardware. So they could never sell a similarly spec'ed PC for the same price as a console unless the original plan was to tank the company.