Ethereum drop?

[DrMacintosh]

2 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

You're just trying to make yourself look less angry over the situation.

ok

[Commodore Sim]

5 hours ago, toastybread said:

maybe you need to define what "free" means to you.   but for most people Free is basically getting more back than you put in..or not having to pay for it even if it costs money.     i call this "effectively free"  when your ROI is positive....    the major difference between this, and lets say a normal business, is have effectively zero man-hours.  you just turn it up and start making money..  most places on earth, you can make between a few cents to a few dollars even on a single GPU after factor in power usage..

 

if you have positive ROI day after day, then its "effectively free".  because your money that is being made can afford the daily power usage as well as afford you a little bit of money on the side.   you dont calculate GPU cost day to day, that's a long term cost.... so that's a dumb argument if you start that one up, and proves that you dont understand the business of mining 

 

 

Yeah this was complete nonsense. 

 

Basically everything we do in life is getting back more than you put in.  Not always in monetary sense of course, but you wouldn't buy a smart phone for say $1000 if it was only worth $500 to you.  you wouldn't employ your time is it wasn't worth less than your wage.  a $4 loaf of bread is likely worth the value of not starving, priceless really.

 

as for the Zero man hours, there's many examples of this and I've never met a miner who didn't have to invest a huge amount of both time and resources to learn how to mine, build their setup, program their array.....ect ect.  But even then, American oil firms extract the oil in the UAE.  Do those Arab land owner oil baron who basically cash the checks, is it free money for them?  You lot need this idea that miners do nothing and get everything.  But they have much much value tied up in their rigs, you don't have to like the model but you can't simply lie about it.

[toastybread]

19 hours ago, Commodore Sim said:

Yeah this was complete nonsense. 

 

Basically everything we do in life is getting back more than you put in.  Not always in monetary sense of course, but you wouldn't buy a smart phone for say $1000 if it was only worth $500 to you.  you wouldn't employ your time is it wasn't worth less than your wage.  a $4 loaf of bread is likely worth the value of not starving, priceless really.

 

as for the Zero man hours, there's many examples of this and I've never met a miner who didn't have to invest a huge amount of both time and resources to learn how to mine, build their setup, program their array.....ect ect.  But even then, American oil firms extract the oil in the UAE.  Do those Arab land owner oil baron who basically cash the checks, is it free money for them?  You lot need this idea that miners do nothing and get everything.  But they have much much value tied up in their rigs, you don't have to like the model but you can't simply lie about it.

 

 

if there is positive ROI it is effectively free..

 

i cannot believe that is a difficult concept to wrap one's head around. i mean yea welcome to the real world, have to pay to play, but if you are earning more back on a daily basis than you are putting in, and have effective zero net loss...where is the argument that it is not "effectively free" .    if there was a hard setup process and it needed constant maintaining, then ya maybe i would be swayed the other way with this argument..  but for most serious minors especially, the process takes of getting multiple GPUs to mine sync with each other on a rig takes an hour at most and usually one time process..   sure avg joe from windows only experience may struggle a bit at first.. but once its up and running, that's all has to be done for life time of the rig unless wish to add more hardware.. most things can be checked remotely and even edited remotely..

 

also as an update, the guy the originally purchased one of my RX480's for $450 during that ETH spike, called him back and he going to help me get my current RX480 running as a mining rig he offered to help, make sure i optimize it correctly, i mean i know what i am doing but he does it for a living so im going let him tinker with it.  and i have 2KW solar panel array in my barn and some deep cycle batteries, and several selections of boards and CPUs laying around doing nothing.. ..so it should be good for off the grid mining rig.. he said with avg cost of power here and RX480 optimized right, should be making a couple dollars per day counting losses, with no energy bill to run it and winter fast approaching, it probably be a dollar or so more per day maybe..

[Commodore Sim]

On 10/23/2017 at 5:32 PM, toastybread said:

 

 

if there is positive ROI it is effectively free..

 

i cannot believe that is a difficult concept to wrap one's head around. i mean yea welcome to the real world, have to pay to play, but if you are earning more back on a daily basis than you are putting in, and have effective zero net loss...where is the argument that it is not "effectively free" .    if there was a hard setup process and it needed constant maintaining, then ya maybe i would be swayed the other way with this argument..  but for most serious minors especially, the process takes of getting multiple GPUs to mine sync with each other on a rig takes an hour at most and usually one time process..   sure avg joe from windows only experience may struggle a bit at first.. but once its up and running, that's all has to be done for life time of the rig unless wish to add more hardware.. most things can be checked remotely and even edited remotely..

 

also as an update, the guy the originally purchased one of my RX480's for $450 during that ETH spike, called him back and he going to help me get my current RX480 running as a mining rig he offered to help, make sure i optimize it correctly, i mean i know what i am doing but he does it for a living so im going let him tinker with it.  and i have 2KW solar panel array in my barn and some deep cycle batteries, and several selections of boards and CPUs laying around doing nothing.. ..so it should be good for off the grid mining rig.. he said with avg cost of power here and RX480 optimized right, should be making a couple dollars per day counting losses, with no energy bill to run it and winter fast approaching, it probably be a dollar or so more per day maybe..

Ok I have to ask, is there something wrong with you? no seriously.  Parse through the argument you just made twice, yes it was the same argument and I got it the first time BTW.

 

You say: "if there is positive ROI it is effectively free.." 

 

So forget about coin mining and apply this statement to literally any aspect of life. 

 

Wouldn't you always seek a positive ROI in literally everything you do?  I mean that's what you've said, perhaps not what you intend but it is what you've said twice now.

 

Why would you seek anything other then a positive return on investment.  'I just bought this tractor, I'll never see a net gain from this purchase.   But I'll sleep easy knowing the John Deere Company made a sale.'  I mean nobody would think that way NOBODY!!!!!

 

So I'm afraid discounting perhaps the depths or Marxism, that this ROI argument you've made twice is not at all an argument.  Unless you intend to argue any positive ROI equals free, in which case we need to contact the dictionary people and let them know they need to change the definition they are using for the word FREE.

[Daniel644]

On 10/22/2017 at 1:51 AM, DrMacintosh said:

Selling a physical object that has assigned value makes a lot more sense than an object which only exists in a online record. 

 

Nice try though. 

how is that really any different then cash since we got off the Gold Standard? NOTHING backs up PAPER MONEY anymore.