What CPU to buy?

[Thisapear]

Damn you guys are not making it easy for me to choose haha. 

But I definitly agree that since I'm not using a high end GPU and only using a RX580, this should affect my choice on the CPU too. Since buying the best CPU around but having a RX580 might not make a lot of senses (I guess? ) But at the same time I do not need the multi threading since I'll mostly do gaming (I need single core performance)

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, Sanctorum said:

 

Seeing what? 2 DIMM slots? On the motherboard. Good thing you've got upgradability with that AM4 mobo though, right? lmfao

The difference is I spent half the price for that quality of VRM. If you're going to spend $120, spend the extra $10-20 and hopefully get a much better VRM. AM4 VRM really don't start getting better until that $130-140 mark as well.

The Major Difference in Ryzen performance with RAM speed, I have Ryzen and I can assure you there really isn't that much going from 2133mhz to 3066mhz as I currently stand. Timings could be better, but I doubt it will help much.

[PETRGangKing]

If you're only buying for gaming the 8400 had quite a bit of value. So far, most benchmarks have shown very little difference in gaming performance between the 8400 ,8600k, and 8700k. Considering it's price, and availability, i think it's a good buy. I would personally spend the extra and get the 8600k, as it has great overclocking potential. I do more than just gaming, so I would be better suited with the i7 variant myself.

[Streetguru]

7 minutes ago, Thisapear said:

Damn you guys are not making it easy for me to choose haha. 

But I definitly agree that since I'm not using a high end GPU and only using a RX580, this should affect my choice on the CPU too. Since buying the best CPU around but having a RX580 might not make a lot of senses (I guess? )

And any idea when you plan to upgrade that GPU? There's a Ryzen bottleneck breakdown with a 1080ti. Even the R5 1400 manages 100fps a lot of the time, if you drop to 8gbs of RAM you can get a fairly cheap upgrade. and have a path to an 8 core in the future, likely when Ryzen is hitting higher clocks on it's Refreshes.

Intel will give you a better gaming experience, up to you if that's worth the extra cost, or losing multi-threaded performance should you ever dip into that stuff.
 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LsfBJV
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LsfBJV/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($155.49 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory  ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $293.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-07 03:01 EDT-0400

 

[Sanctorum]

2 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

The difference is I spent half the price for that quality of VRM. 

First of all, you haven't actually shown any proof of the Intel motherboards having poor VRMs.

Secondly, you spent half the money for a much lower end motherboard with significantly less features.

3 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

 If you're going to spend $120, spend the extra $10-20 and hopefully get a much better VRM. 

So you should spend more with the 8400 for a motherboard with better VRM that won't actually make a difference to OP, but spend less with Ryzen for slower RAM that will actually have a detrimental effect on performance? Great logic.

 

5 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

AM4 VRM really don't start getting better until that $130-140 mark as well.

Okay so since you might as well spend the extra for better VRMs, add $40-50 to the $455 total I quoted for R5 1600+Mobo+RAM. Now we're at $500 total for Ryzen, vs $450-460 for Intel WITH a better mobo.

 

6 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

I have Ryzen and I can assure you there really isn't that much going from 2133mhz to 3066mhz

That's just an outright lie. Unless you're talking about performance in Microsoft Word?

[Sanctorum]

8 minutes ago, Thisapear said:

Damn you guys are not making it easy for me to choose haha. 

But I definitly agree that since I'm not using a high end GPU and only using a RX580, this should affect my choice on the CPU too. Since buying the best CPU around but having a RX580 might not make a lot of senses (I guess? )

It's super easy to choose. The dude arguing for Ryzen is literally posting article after article that backs up my claims that even an i5-8400 is a much better option, both overall AND in terms of value for gamers, especially high refresh rate ganers like yourself.

 

Ignore the fact that you have an RX 580, it doesn't make the i5 any less better than Ryzen. Oh, and when you upgrade GPU, you're just going to see even worse performance with Ryzen than you would if you bought the i5(or i7).

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, Sanctorum said:

That's just an outright lie. Unless you're talking about performance in Microsoft Word?

No, in benchmarks and games, because my timings at 2133mhz were pretty good compared to looser timings at 3066mhz.

The boards appear to be 3 or 4 + X, which is pretty damned weak at that price point, if you're going to buy the higher end board get the nicer VRM. Otherwise wait for the H chipset boards under $100, those make far more sense with the i5 8400 anyways. Better yet wait for the 8600K for a bit more, and add a bit more for a heat sink, and there you go, actually way better than Ryzen performance in games. Since you already have to buy a Z chipset motherboard.

 

[Thisapear]

1 minute ago, Streetguru said:

And any idea when you plan to upgrade that GPU? There's a Ryzen bottleneck breakdown with a 1080ti. Even the R5 1400 manages 100fps a lot of the time, if you drop to 8gbs of RAM you can get a fairly cheap upgrade. and have a path to an 8 core in the future, likely when Ryzen is hitting higher clocks on it's Refreshes.

Intel will give you a better gaming experience, up to you if that's worth the extra cost, or losing multi-threaded performance should you ever dip into that stuff.
 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LsfBJV
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LsfBJV/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($155.49 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory  ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $293.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-07 03:01 EDT-0400

 

Was looking to upgrade it this month or maybe next month (max)

Do you have PCpartpicker for CANADA? Since I pay in CAD

[Thisapear]

3 minutes ago, Sanctorum said:

It's super easy to choose. The dude arguing for Ryzen is literally posting article after article that backs up my claims that even an i5-8400 is a much better option, both overall AND in terms of value for gamers, especially high refresh rate ganers like yourself.

 

Ignore the fact that you have an RX 580, it doesn't make the i5 any less better than Ryzen. Oh, and when you upgrade GPU, you're just going to see even worse performance with Ryzen than you would if you bought the i5(or i7).

So a 8600k would be a good choice?

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, Thisapear said:

Was looking to upgrade it this month or maybe next month (max)

Do you have PCpartpicker for CANADA? Since I pay in CAD

Budget?

[Sanctorum]

Just now, Thisapear said:

So a 8600k would be a good choice?

Any Coffee Lake i5 or i7. I'd go for an 8600k, but I like to overclock. i5-8400 is better value, especially if you don't intend on overclocking.

[Sanctorum]

2 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

The boards appear to be 3 or 4 + X, which is pretty damned weak at that price point, if you're going to buy the higher end board get the nicer VRM.

You're not accounting for quality. That's a pretty important factor. You're just making assumptions that you can't actually back up with any proof, so another pointless argument.

 

3 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Otherwise wait for the H chipset boards under $100, those make far more sense with the i5 8400 anyways. 

Yeah. I can't argue against this, I agree. However, if OP can't wait until next year, he's stuck with Z370. It pushes the cost up, but the i5 is STILL the better option overall, and it's still better value since it's going to offer better performance OP for a similar cost(i5 is still slightly cheaper most ways you look at it). Plus, Z370 gives him room to upgrade to an unlocked i5 or i7 and OC, if he ever decides to do so. That's not a reason to buy Z370 with a locked SKU, just a benefit of having the Z370 mobo if he has to get it.

 

5 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Better yet wait for the 8600K for a bit more, and add a bit more for a heat sink, and there you go, actually way better than Ryzen performance in games. Since you already have to buy a Z chipset motherboard.

Again though, even the articles you linked yourself have showed that the 8600k isn't much of an improvement over the 8400, even at 5GHz+. The 8600k would be better sure, but you're the one who's been arguing about value, and the 8600k is pretty bad value compared to the 8400 when you add $50+ for the CPU and $40-60 for a decent cooler.

[PETRGangKing]

2 minutes ago, Thisapear said:

So a 8600k would be a good choice?

It would be a very good choice. 6 core, 9mb of cache, and if you get a decent cooling solution, can be overclocked to around 5ghz. It's a beast, and if youre just gaming you don't want need the hyperthreading that an i7 offers.

[just_dave]

13 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

I need to know where you're seeing that.


I run an overclocked R7 1700 with the same VRM, it's fine, especially for the 6 core.

What $5 cooler, is going to cool a 6 core intel part?

You are saying garbage, again.

The one time you ran your CPU at 1.35V for 6hrs without a proper CPU stress test, you did not even measure the temps.

The VRM lacks the voltage control to run 6 core at higher clocks without going too crazy on the idle voltage.

I agree with @Sanctorum, the mobo you're recommending is garbage.

[Streetguru]

4 minutes ago, Thisapear said:

So a 8600k would be a good choice?

The 8600K makes more sense if you're already buying a Z chipset motherboard It's about $100 CAD more, plus a heat sink.

Cheaper Ryzen upgrade

PCPartPicker part list: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x8NQJV
Price breakdown by merchant: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x8NQJV/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($194.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($99.50 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Patriot - Viper Elite 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($86.49 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $380.98

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GcXfXH
Price breakdown by merchant: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GcXfXH/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor  ($224.47 @ shopRBC)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($174.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Patriot - Viper Elite 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($86.49 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $485.95
 

Considering 16gbs of RAM or the R5 1600 if you want to do something that's going to use the extra threads in the future.

[just_dave]

10 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

No, in benchmarks and games, because my timings at 2133mhz were pretty good compared to looser timings at 3066mhz.

The boards appear to be 3 or 4 + X, which is pretty damned weak at that price point, if you're going to buy the higher end board get the nicer VRM. Otherwise wait for the H chipset boards under $100, those make far more sense with the i5 8400 anyways. Better yet wait for the 8600K for a bit more, and add a bit more for a heat sink, and there you go, actually way better than Ryzen performance in games. Since you already have to buy a Z chipset motherboard.

 

Rating VRMs by phase count is total bs

[Streetguru]

4 minutes ago, Sanctorum said:

Again though, even the articles you linked yourself have showed that the 8600k isn't much of an improvement over the 8400, even at 5GHz+. The 8600k would be better sure, but you're the one who's been arguing about value, and the 8600k is pretty bad value compared to the 8400 when you add $50+ for the CPU and $40-60 for a decent cooler.

I don't think they had a 5ghz 8600K, not sure anyone got a review sample of that, I don't see in the PC gamer review anyways

 

No ammount of quality will make a 3 or 4 phase VRM at that price point good, when for slightly more you get a way better VRM.

[Thisapear]

1 minute ago, Streetguru said:

The 8600K makes more sense if you're already buying a Z chipset motherboard It's about $100 CAD more, plus a heat sink.

Cheaper Ryzen upgrade

PCPartPicker part list: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x8NQJV
Price breakdown by merchant: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x8NQJV/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($194.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($99.50 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Patriot - Viper Elite 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($86.49 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $380.98

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GcXfXH
Price breakdown by merchant: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GcXfXH/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor  ($224.47 @ shopRBC)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($174.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Patriot - Viper Elite 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($86.49 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $485.95
 

Considering 16gbs of RAM or the R5 1600 if you want to do something that's going to use the extra threads in the future.

I already have a good heat sink.

And for budget for motherboard + CPU + RAM would be probably around 500-600$ not sure

[Streetguru]

2 minutes ago, dave_k said:

The one time you ran your CPU at 1.35V for 6hrs without a proper CPU stress test, you did not even measure the temps.

It's not garbage if it works and has been working for months.

I got the tempature gun btw.

 

1 minute ago, dave_k said:

Rating VRMs by phase count is total bs

For the most part, like ASrocks "6" + 3 phase VRM, but 3 or 4 surely isn't going to be very nice at $120, at least for $10 more get the ASrock advertised "10" phase.

[Streetguru]

3 minutes ago, Thisapear said:

I already have a good heat sink.

And for budget for motherboard + CPU + RAM would be probably around 500-600$ not sure

Then probably wait for the 8600K, and maybe for 16gbs of RAM.

Although that brings you to 8 core Ryzen territory, but that's really not needed for pure gaming, maybe if you wanted to do streaming or game capture at that price point.

[Sanctorum]

2 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

Cheaper Ryzen upgrade

PCPartPicker part list: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x8NQJV
Price breakdown by merchant: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/x8NQJV/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1400 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($194.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($99.50 @ Vuugo)
Memory: Patriot - Viper Elite 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($86.49 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $380.98

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GcXfXH
Price breakdown by merchant: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/GcXfXH/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor  ($224.47 @ shopRBC)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($174.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Patriot - Viper Elite 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($86.49 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $485.95

And here's the Intel option in CAD when you don't overspend for no reason to make it seem like the Intel option is more expensive;

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8400 2.8GHz 6-Core Processor  ($224.47 @ shopRBC) 
Motherboard: MSI - Z370-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($147.99 @ Amazon Canada) 
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Tactical 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory  ($78.00 @ Amazon Canada) 
Total: $450.46
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-07 03:21 EDT-0400

 

Add the $60 extra for R5 1600 over R5 1400 and the Coffee Lake i5 is actually only $10CAD more than Ryzen alternative, not the $100CAD being claimed.

[just_dave]

2 minutes ago, Streetguru said:

It's not garbage if it works and has been working for months.

I got the tempature gun btw.

 

For the most part, like ASrocks "6" + 3 phase VRM, but 3 or 4 surely isn't going to be very nice at $120, at least for $10 more get the ASrock advertised "10" phase.

Which is an 4+2phase with worse components than most B350s, ASRock changed the new revisions and started using significantly worse LS mosfets and ISL95712 voltage controller which you cant fiddle into 8 phase.

Also, ASRock uses crappy LS mosfets and your so called 6 phase has less of them than MSI or Asus. 

[Streetguru]

1 minute ago, Sanctorum said:

 

That board is likely trash, especially for the money, and why single channel? Dual channel is better for everyone.



 

[Thisapear]

Also 8GB or 16GB would be best?

[Streetguru]

2 minutes ago, Thisapear said:

Also 8GB or 16GB would be best?

16gbs if you have the money, 8gbs is fine like 99% of the time for pure gaming in any case. Not sure anyone's done recent RAM testing for gaming.