Can't overclock CPU and run 3000MHz Ram at the same time?

[fastcar123]

On my Ryzen 7 rig I am haveing a hard time getting stability with my overclock on my ram and cpu.

 

I just bought some 3000MHz RAM. However if i try to run at its rated speed or even 2800, My PC either fails to boot or resets my CPU OC.

 

I am running a MSI tomahawk b350, corsair vengence 3000 16GB RAM, and a ryzen 7 1700 oced to 3.95GHz.

 

Iwould it be worth it for me to buy an asus prime x370 board (not really what i want because $150 is alot right now) or should i just try to live with 3.95GHz and 2667MHz RAM? I have a GTX980 in there and I most just game with this computer.

[iRileyx]

The performance gain from 2667 to 3000(or in Ryzens case 2933, not sure why it does that for 3k) isn't worth the $150 it'd cost for a new board honestly.
There's also no guarantee that the new board could run the CPU at 3.95 with the ram at 3000.

[johndms]

14 minutes ago, fastcar123 said:

On my Ryzen 7 rig I am haveing a hard time getting stability with my overclock on my ram and cpu.

 

I just bought some 3000MHz RAM. However if i try to run at its rated speed or even 2800, My PC either fails to boot or resets my CPU OC.

 

I am running a MSI tomahawk b350, corsair vengence 3000 16GB RAM, and a ryzen 7 1700 oced to 3.95GHz.

 

Iwould it be worth it for me to buy an asus prime x370 board (not really what i want because $150 is alot right now) or should i just try to live with 3.95GHz and 2667MHz RAM? I have a GTX980 in there and I most just game with this computer.

From what I've heard, most MSI boards aren't at the top of any lists of VRM quality, meaning their ability to deliver and maintain reliable, steady voltage isn't as good as some of the more popular B350 boards and X370. Ryzen 7 processors can really stress a weak VRM especially when heavily overclocked. I'll drop a link to an informative video regarding VRM quality with B350 boards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGrxhf_xZWI

 

My recommendations, however, would be to update to the latest bios version, if you haven't already.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK#down-bios. Try to do one overclock at a time. Get the CPU stabilized, then worry about ram OC later. The difference between 2666 and 3200 isn't that great and you're likely to never notice a difference with 2800 vs 3000. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOWx5LH4uBo

 

If you ever choose to swap boards, I'd definitely try to get X370 for Ryzen 7, or at the very least, Asus Rog B350-F Gaming, or MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon or MSI B350 Krait Gaming. The video I linked above considers these to be top-notch in VRM quality.

 

[just_dave]

The Ryzen 7 overclocked could fry your motherboard and Tomahawk is overall pure garbage.

I would get the Asus Prime X370 Pro

[johndms]

7 minutes ago, johndms said:

I just bought some 3000MHz RAM. However if i try to run at its rated speed or even 2800, My PC either fails to boot or resets my CPU OC.

Also, when adjusting memory frequency or voltage, your Ryzen board will probably cycle off/on a few times attempting to 'learn' stable sub-timings capable of booting. This usually happens by default 3 or 5 times. If unsuccessful, the bios may revert to it's default state with no overclocks at all.  

[just_dave]

15 minutes ago, johndms said:

Also, when adjusting memory frequency or voltage, your Ryzen board will probably cycle off/on a few times attempting to 'learn' stable sub-timings capable of booting. This usually happens by default 3 or 5 times. If unsuccessful, the bios may revert to it's default state with no overclocks at all.  

These mobos dont have it.

The Strix is the only one i know about that has memory overclock fail count

[DocSwag]

You may want to consider backing the OC down to 3.7 ish and trying to bump the memory to 3000, perhaps by increasing SoC voltage. Your mobo's vrms aren't very suited to an 8 core Ryzen CPU at 4 ghz.

[fastcar123]

46 minutes ago, RKRiley said:

The performance gain from 2667 to 3000(or in Ryzens case 2933, not sure why it does that for 3k) isn't worth the $150 it'd cost for a new board honestly.
There's also no guarantee that the new board could run the CPU at 3.95 with the ram at 3000.

Hmm yea I guess that is true with the nature of overclocking. I guess I just thought with stronger VRM that I would be able to acheive that and maybe even higher.

I was looking at the am4 motherboard guide and I guess i just thought i was going to need x370 for the best OC

 

33 minutes ago, johndms said:

From what I've heard, most MSI boards aren't at the top of any lists of VRM quality, meaning their ability to deliver and maintain reliable, steady voltage isn't as good as some of the more popular B350 boards and X370. Ryzen 7 processors can really stress a weak VRM especially when heavily overclocked. I'll drop a link to an informative video regarding VRM quality with B350 boards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGrxhf_xZWI

 

My recommendations, however, would be to update to the latest bios version, if you haven't already.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B350-TOMAHAWK#down-bios. Try to do one overclock at a time. Get the CPU stabilized, then worry about ram OC later. The difference between 2666 and 3200 isn't that great and you're likely to never notice a difference with 2800 vs 3000. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOWx5LH4uBo

 

If you ever choose to swap boards, I'd definitely try to get X370 for Ryzen 7, or at the very least, Asus Rog B350-F Gaming, or MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon or MSI B350 Krait Gaming. The video I linked above considers these to be top-notch in VRM quality.

 

Is the Asus b350 board good? Its cheaper but still very pricy.

27 minutes ago, johndms said:

Also, when adjusting memory frequency or voltage, your Ryzen board will probably cycle off/on a few times attempting to 'learn' stable sub-timings capable of booting. This usually happens by default 3 or 5 times. If unsuccessful, the bios may revert to it's default state with no overclocks at all.  

This is typically what happens which I expected but then it just removes all the overclocking on everything.

31 minutes ago, dave_k said:

The Ryzen overclocked will fry your motherboard and Tomahawk is overall pure garbage.

Get the Asus Prime X370 Pro if you dont want to risk of killing your chip

What makes you say that? Bad VRM?

14 minutes ago, dave_k said:

These mobos dont have it.

The Strix is the only one i know about that has memory overclock fail count

Does the b350 version also have it?

[just_dave]

Just now, fastcar123 said:

What makes you say that? Bad VRM?

Yeah, they are pure garbage.

1 minute ago, fastcar123 said:

Does the b350 version also have it?

Yes, but for Ryzen 7 overclocked that high is better to get at least the Prime X370 Pro or better because VRMs on even the best B350s (Strix, Carbon, Krait) will start going over 80°C with that high overclocked R7.

What VCore do you use?

[fastcar123]

7 minutes ago, dave_k said:

Yeah, they are pure garbage.

Yes, but for Ryzen 7 overclocked that high is better to get at least the Prime X370 Pro or better because VRMs on even the best B350s (Strix, Carbon, Krait) will start going over 80°C with that high overclocked R7.

What VCore do you use?

Vcore is 1.3625 though I have gotten it to run at 1.35 with the same oc. 1.3625 just made me feel a little better.

[just_dave]

3 minutes ago, fastcar123 said:

Vcore is 1.3625 though I have gotten it to run at 1.35 with the same oc. 1.3625 just made me feel a little better.

Definitely get the Prime X370 Pro

[fastcar123]

2 minutes ago, dave_k said:

Definitely get the Prime X370 Pro

How big of an issue is that?

[just_dave]

Just now, fastcar123 said:

How big of an issue is that?

The Tomahawk actually poses a risk of killing your CPU.

Ryzen 7 at 1.3625V is over the limit that i recommend for B350s.

The VRMs will overheat without an airflow.

Download Prime95 and HWMonitor.

Run Prime95 large FFT test for 20 minutes and look for "mainboard" sensor in HWMonitor.

[fastcar123]

13 minutes ago, dave_k said:

The Tomahawk actually poses a risk of killing your CPU.

Ryzen 7 at 1.3625V is over the limit that i recommend for B350s.

The VRMs will overheat without an airflow.

Download Prime95 and HWMonitor.

Run Prime95 large FFT test for 20 minutes and look for "mainboard" sensor in HWMonitor.

Ok ill run some tests when i get home.

 

I do have airflow over the VRM from my cpu cooler. The fans point down at the board from the cooler.

So they have some airflow

[just_dave]

Just now, fastcar123 said:

Ok ill run some tests when i get home.

 

I do have airflow over the VRM from my cpu cooler. The fans point down at the board from the cooler.

So they have some airflow

Still, the Tomahawk is the more garbage B350, i would get a cheaper X370 personally

[johndms]

6 hours ago, fastcar123 said:

I just bought some 3000MHz RAM. However if i try to run at its rated speed or even 2800, My PC either fails to boot or resets my CPU OC.

 

I am running a MSI tomahawk b350, corsair vengence 3000 16GB RAM, and a ryzen 7 1700 oced to 3.95GHz.

Out of curiosity, are you able to clock the ram at A-XMP 2933 without overclocking the CPU?

 

My ASRock board is picky about how I apply overclocks. If I try to overclock both CPU and Ram at the same time, save changes and reboot, it stands a good chance at failing. However, if I do one at a time, saving and rebooting in between, it's just fine. Another thing is SoC voltage, which is used to increase stability with ram overclocks. Your board calls this "CPU NB Voltage". Auto is probably around 0.968v. It's safe to raise this to 1.1v. My ASRock board does this automatically when I run my 3000MHz kit at XMP 2933.

 

While an X370 board would be a better choice, I understand sometimes that's just not an option. If you're able to get the ram running correctly, then I'd worry about the CPU overclock. If you desire to push it to 3.9+, I'd make sure you have some cooling airflow across the VRM heatsink.

 

Oh, and do make sure you're running the newest bios for your board as the newer releases improve on system stability and ram compatibility.

[fastcar123]

9 hours ago, dave_k said:

The Tomahawk actually poses a risk of killing your CPU.

Ryzen 7 at 1.3625V is over the limit that i recommend for B350s.

The VRMs will overheat without an airflow.

Download Prime95 and HWMonitor.

Run Prime95 large FFT test for 20 minutes and look for "mainboard" sensor in HWMonitor.

here are my result from running 15 minutes of burn in test. 

[fastcar123]

3 hours ago, johndms said:

Out of curiosity, are you able to clock the ram at A-XMP 2933 without overclocking the CPU?

 

My ASRock board is picky about how I apply overclocks. If I try to overclock both CPU and Ram at the same time, save changes and reboot, it stands a good chance at failing. However, if I do one at a time, saving and rebooting in between, it's just fine. Another thing is SoC voltage, which is used to increase stability with ram overclocks. Your board calls this "CPU NB Voltage". Auto is probably around 0.968v. It's safe to raise this to 1.1v. My ASRock board does this automatically when I run my 3000MHz kit at XMP 2933.

 

While an X370 board would be a better choice, I understand sometimes that's just not an option. If you're able to get the ram running correctly, then I'd worry about the CPU overclock. If you desire to push it to 3.9+, I'd make sure you have some cooling airflow across the VRM heatsink.

 

Oh, and do make sure you're running the newest bios for your board as the newer releases improve on system stability and ram compatibility.

I do have the latest bios of 1.8. 

 

The CPU NB is set to auto at .968 just as you said. I have been wanting to raise this as I know it will provide more stability. Though I'll probably only push it 1.0V. I would be interested to know more about this particular part of the CPU. 

 

I have tried but I don't think I tried in depth. Ill probably give this a go one more time

[Emberstone]

10 hours ago, dave_k said:

These mobos dont have it.

The Strix is the only one i know about that has memory overclock fail count

My Asus Prime B350 Plus will boot loop to attempt to train in ram settings. Sometimes I've had it restart after one or two loops and the memory overclock is still enabled, not reverted back to default. I noticed this while trying to get 3200 MHz, up from my stable 3066.

 

That said, I haven't had luck with the auto-training actually making my ram stable. It just allows it to post and maybe let me get a Cinebench run or two in, but no games will run without crashing.

[JoostinOnline]

10 hours ago, dave_k said:

The Ryzen overclocked will fry your motherboard and Tomahawk is overall pure garbage.

Do you have any sources to back that up, other than the average DOA reports that literally every model has?

[johndms]

36 minutes ago, fastcar123 said:

The CPU NB is set to auto at .968 just as you said. I have been wanting to raise this as I know it will provide more stability. Though I'll probably only push it 1.0V. I would be interested to know more about this particular part of the CPU.

If you were to Google MSI "CPU NB Voltage", it'll define it in nearly the same terms I used.

"CPU/NB controls integrated memory controller in the CPU. This what you'd adjust to help stabilize the system."

Keep in mind this has nothing to do with CPU stability, it's controls the voltage to the memory controller, thus improving system stability when overclocking ram. Ryzen refers to this is "SOC Voltage". MSI just keeps with the old terminology. 

 

I understand that you don't know me, thus trusting me is an issue (and you're right not to), so you're more than welcome to only raise your CPU NB Voltage to 1.0v, but I'd recommend you do your research, as I do before I give advice. There's little to no documented word from AMD on what Northbridge (SOC) voltage is "safe", but 1.1v is generally accepted and even automatically entered when dialing in a ram overclock on some boards. I've personally tried 1.2v when trying to push my 3000MHz rated ram kit to beyond 3200 (didn't work).

 

I'm still curious to know if you're able to clock the ram at A-XMP 2933 without overclocking the CPU?

[just_dave]

5 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Do you have any sources to back that up, other than the average DOA reports that literally every model has?

Well, if you overclock R7 so much, the used garbage highside mosfets are slowly heading into failure and if that happens and driver engages lowside, all of the 12V will go to your CPU.

There is a newegg review about fried Tomahawk, but i dont take it as a proof.

Also, the capacitors on such mobo are pretty much unknown, but i would suspect 5K 95/105°C electrolytic caps that wont like the high VRM temp as well.

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, dave_k said:

Well, if you overclock R7 so much, the used garbage highside mosfets are slowly heading into failure and if that happens and driver engages lowside, all of the 12V will go to your CPU.

There is a newegg review about fried Tomahawk, but i dont take it as a proof.

Also, the capacitors on such mobo are pretty much unknown, but i would suspect 5K 95/105°C electrolytic caps that wont like the high VRM temp as well.

So no, you don't have any actual sources.  You're talking out of your ass.

 

Repeatedly using the word "garbage" without anything to back up your statements doesn't make you an " AM4 motherboard senpai".

[just_dave]

8 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

So no, you don't have any actual sources.  You're talking out of your ass.

 

Repeatedly using the word "garbage" without anything to back up your statements doesn't make you an " AM4 motherboard senpai".

Do the Heat output calculation for Tomahawk and report me back your numbers.

I'll see if they correspond mine.

I dont dig that deep when talking with normal user to not confuse him.

If i show him Fall/Rise times, Rds(on) or similiar, he won't have an idea what i am talking about.

(R7 1.38-1.4V 4GHz)The Tomahawk's overall heat output is not that much bigger than Asus for example, like 3W higher, but the majority of those 3W is on the highside, which does overheat badly.

PK616BA has too long Rise/Fall times and higher drain to source resistance. Both of these make its losses higher.

[fastcar123]

5 hours ago, dave_k said:

Do the Heat output calculation for Tomahawk and report me back your numbers.

I'll see if they correspond mine.

I dont dig that deep when talking with normal user to not confuse him.

If i show him Fall/Rise times, Rds(on) or similiar, he won't have an idea what i am talking about.

(R7 1.38-1.4V 4GHz)The Tomahawk's overall heat output is not that much bigger than Asus for example, like 3W higher, but the majority of those 3W is on the highside, which does overheat badly.

PK616BA has too long Rise/Fall times and higher drain to source resistance. Both of these make its losses higher.

Not that I do or dont belive you, because I really do appreciate the help, but I actually would like to see that data.

Mostly for curiosity sake.

 

I went to collage for electrical engineering and know a fair bit about mosfets. Whatever I dont know I can look up or just ask for explanation