New to DAC/Amps - help with HD6xx

[3 Minute Reviewer]

Hey there! I just joined the drop from the HD6xx on Massdrop and can't wait for these bad boys to show up in December. In the meantime I was hoping to enlighten myself on the basics of DACs and Amps since I noted the impedance on these headphones are 300 ohms. Will an iPhone 7 plus be able to power these? Do I need a DAC AND an Amp, or just one or the other? What are some budget friendly options for a desk top set-up (dont think I will be using these on the go). I have a MoBo with integrated audio (https://pcpartpicker.com/product/F9Gj4D/msi-motherboard-z170agamingm5) is this enough to power the headphones? I wanna get the best performance I can out of these headphones without spending more than $100-$200 on any additional parts/components. Thanks for all the help and insight!!!

 

Here is the link to the drop page as well: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx?utm_campaign=Transactional%3A Joined Drop&utm_source=SparkPost&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Transactional%3A Joined Drop&utm_content=1498744837303.064605167365803092534486&referer=J2DTUT

[seduce_me]

iPhone 7 might be enough to power the HD6XX series with the adapter, but they scale with better gear. You can start with a basic schiit stack for $200. They are a great value and are resolving enough to tell the differences with better gear.

[3 Minute Reviewer]

1 minute ago, seduce_me said:

iPhone 7 might be enough to power the HD6XX series with the adapter, but they scale with better gear. You can start with a basic schiit stack for $200. They are a great value and are resolving enough to tell the differences with better gear.

Okay cool! Do you have any suggestions of what to look for when investing in this gear? And is the DAC or the amp more important? Like do I need both or just one? I dont fully understand what they do haha

[WereCat]

My phone (Huawei Mate 8) can drive my HD650 Sennheisers very well (all things considered), even the onboard audio on my PC was (barely) capable of doing that at 100% volume.

[elira]

The DAC transforms the digital signal to an analog one, music files in the computer are digital, and speakers need analog signals, so you need a DAC to transform between digital and analog (Digital to Analog Converter).

 

The output of a DAC is typically a line level signal, and is intended to be used in a high impedance input (in the order of kilo ohms). Line level outputs cannot provide enough voltage /current to drive headphones or speakers.

 

Then you have Amps, that are amplifiers so they amplify the line level signal (in this case from the DAC) and made it strong enough to drive headphones. There're also speaker amps, that need to provide more power in order to drive speakers.

 

And there're also DAC/Amp combos that have both things in one device like a Fulla [2] (from schiit).

 

Your iphone has a DAC and an AMP inside, so you may be able to drive the HD6XX until certain volume. You can start by using an Amp to get more volume, the DAC in the iphone shouldn't be that bad.

[Dackzy]

it wouldn't be a stupid idea to get a schiit modi 2 and magni 2, since that would yeld some pretty good results with the HD 650's, though they do like a good tube amp, but then we are going above budget on just a amp

[SSL]

Vali 2 and skip the DAC for desktop audio value with HD650. I know nothing of mobile amps, so I can't help there. iPhone is probably fine on its own.

[3 Minute Reviewer]

3 minutes ago, SSL said:

Vali 2 and skip the DAC for desktop audio value with HD650. I know nothing of mobile amps, so I can't help there. iPhone is probably fine on its own.

hmmmm I like this option a lot - that thing is gorgeuos. Do tube amps take more up keep in the long run? and not having an addtional DAC should be okay?

 

[3 Minute Reviewer]

2 hours ago, elira said:

The DAC transforms the digital signal to an analog one, music files in the computer are digital, and speakers need analog signals, so you need a DAC to transform between digital and analog (Digital to Analog Converter).

 

The output of a DAC is typically a line level signal, and is intended to be used in a high impedance input (in the order of kilo ohms). Line level outputs cannot provide enough voltage /current to drive headphones or speakers.

 

Then you have Amps, that are amplifiers so they amplify the line level signal (in this case from the DAC) and made it strong enough to drive headphones. There're also speaker amps, that need to provide more power in order to drive speakers.

 

And there're also DAC/Amp combos that have both things in one device like a Fulla [2] (from schiit).

 

Your iphone has a DAC and an AMP inside, so you may be able to drive the HD6XX until certain volume. You can start by using an Amp to get more volume, the DAC in the iphone shouldn't be that bad.

So does my motherboard currently have a build in DAC in that case? since I am able to plug in speakers and have to produce sound without anything extra. and if so - would I be better off putting more money towards a nice amp?

 

[SSL]

Just now, kmathieu2220 said:

hmmmm I like this option a lot - that thing is gorgeuos. Do tube amps take more up keep in the long run? and not having an addtional DAC should be okay?

 

Yes, in the long run you will pay for tubes. However, a single tube should last several years and Schiit sells the stock tubes for just $10 each.

 

1 minute ago, kmathieu2220 said:

So does my motherboard currently have a build in DAC in that case?

 

Yes.

[3 Minute Reviewer]

Just now, SSL said:

 

Yes, in the long run you will pay for tubes. However, a single tube should last several years and Schiit sells the stock tubes for just $10 each.

 

 

Yes.

Oh awesome! Thanks for this suggestion - I thinkn this is what I am going to go for. I have some AT m40x's that might benefit from this as well so I can test it out while I wait for my HD6xx's to arrive

[xtroria]

5 hours ago, SSL said:

Vali 2 and skip the DAC for desktop audio value with HD650. I know nothing of mobile amps, so I can't help there. iPhone is probably fine on its own.

I don't really agree with tube amp for first time buyer. I mean yeah it's HD650 so the end game is always tube amp for those but people who use tube amp usually have normal amp as well

[LucasRem]

Funny discussion, i run an expansive DAC, on some old AMP and 6 channel speakers Bose studio setup, on onboard codecs! Only needing SP/Dif, pro studio's use the same codecs as motherboards, you can do them on any Embedded Eprom, pro or non pro. Only if you do need pro connections for mixing facilities studio real equipment, you need the Pro cards, some are able to fix them to onboard codecs too.

[3 Minute Reviewer]

1 hour ago, xtroria said:

I don't really agree with tube amp for first time buyer. I mean yeah it's HD650 so the end game is always tube amp for those but people who use tube amp usually have normal amp as well

What would be the benefit of starting with a normal amp? Would you recommend the schiit stack? Or their entry level combo? Or something different all together?

[SSL]

1 hour ago, kmathieu2220 said:

What would be the benefit of starting with a normal amp? Would you recommend the schiit stack? Or their entry level combo? Or something different all together?

 

Nothing, if you're interested in a tube amp.

 

Tube amps, particularly hybrid tube amps, do not have any barrier to entry provided you can figure out how to stick a thing in a thing.

[3 Minute Reviewer]

4 hours ago, SSL said:

 

Nothing, if you're interested in a tube amp.

 

Tube amps, particularly hybrid tube amps, do not have any barrier to entry provided you can figure out how to stick a thing in a thing.

Do you think there would be more benefit from doing something like the Schiit stack (Magni + Modi) or going straight for a tube amp (Vali)?

[SSL]

Just now, kmathieu2220 said:

Do you think there would be more benefit from doing something like the Schiit stack (Magni + Modi) or going straight for a tube amp (Vali)?

 

If you don't get the Vali, get the Fulla 2. It captures most of the performance of the Magni/Modi stack combined with the Uber functionality and more. Better volume knob to boot.

[3 Minute Reviewer]

Just now, SSL said:

 

If you don't get the Vali, get the Fulla 2. It captures most of the performance of the Magni/Modi stack combined with the Uber functionality and more. Better volume knob to boot.

Okay cool - thanks my man!

[Owlman]

1 hour ago, SSL said:

 

If you don't get the Vali, get the Fulla 2. It captures most of the performance of the Magni/Modi stack combined with the Uber functionality and more. Better volume knob to boot.

I have a question about the Vali 2. I've heard from some people that it doesn't really sound like a tube amp and more like a solid state, is this true?

[Dackzy]

22 minutes ago, Owlman said:

I have a question about the Vali 2. I've heard from some people that it doesn't really sound like a tube amp and more like a solid state, is this true?

yes, it is a hybrid tube amp, but the tube it comes with doesn't really share the typical tube sound. I would probably get a 6CG7 EH tube for it

[Owlman]

30 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

yes, it is a hybrid tube amp, but the tube it comes with doesn't really share the typical tube sound. I would probably get a 6CG7 EH tube for it

Thanks for the help

[3 Minute Reviewer]

2 hours ago, Dackzy said:

yes, it is a hybrid tube amp, but the tube it comes with doesn't really share the typical tube sound. I would probably get a 6CG7 EH tube for it

So you would suggest that same amp but switch out the tube? What does it take to replace a tube?

[seduce_me]

13 minutes ago, kmathieu2220 said:

So you would suggest that same amp but switch out the tube? What does it take to replace a tube?

Wiggle it while pulling it out slowly and insert another one in. 

[Dackzy]

15 minutes ago, kmathieu2220 said:

So you would suggest that same amp but switch out the tube? What does it take to replace a tube?

Yeah to bring back a bit of the tube sound, you just need to buy the 6CG7 tube and then take the old out and put in the new one. Oh yeah the 6922 EH tube would also work in it.

[3 Minute Reviewer]

25 minutes ago, seduce_me said:

Wiggle it while pulling it out slowly and insert another one in. 

Oh really that easy?? nice! no tools or anything else needed?