Amateur photographers - if you want something done right, never hire amateurs to be assistants

[AbrahamoLincolni]

So a friend of mine asked me to hire his son as an assistant last month because the kid is keen on becoming a professional photographer, and I looked at the kid's work.  They were very nice.  Today, his first day in a pro shoot where he can get some experience, he fucking screws up. 

 

1st I tell him to come early, so I can use him as a third cameraman at the wedding I was photographing. He comes an hour late. 

2nd he forgets to charge his camera battery and doesn't listen to what I say and does his own thing unless I keep an eye on him.

3rd he brings only a small capacity memory card.

4th he hits on one of the bridesmaids.

 

A few days before the wedding I was going over the plan with him and told him how to prepare.

 

Luckily my wife, who also happens to be my second shooter is there to help me out and the 2 of us manage to get through the wedding.   I'm thinking of telling my friend his son won't be working with me any longer.  @AkiraDaarkst, what do you think, should I get rid of the kid?

[Xanthe_2871]

3 minutes ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

1st I tell him to come early, so I can use him as a third cameraman at the wedding I was photographing. He comes an hour late.

How old is he? Does he have his own car? There really should be no excuse for being an hour late, unless someone close to him just died, or he's deathly ill.

 

5 minutes ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

2nd he forgets to charge his camera battery and doesn't listen to what I say and does his own thing unless I keep an eye on him.

The battery part is easier to understand, since as you say he is still learning. I can say I relied only on the battery that came with my camera for years before realizing how useful multiple batteries can be! As for doing his own thing, again that's not excusable. Unless your commands were ambiguous. Maybe he didn't understand what exactly you wanted him to do? Or maybe he didn't really want to be there for you, but just for himself.

 

8 minutes ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

3rd he brings only a small capacity memory card.

What's "small"? Was it enough for the shoot? Was he doing photos only, or video too? Did you tell him what size he should bring? Was he shooting in RAW?  

 

9 minutes ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

4th he hits on one of the bridesmaids.

LOL. Was she hot? Ok, to be serious, that is very unprofessional! Again I ask, how old was he?

[PeachyUwUSenpai]

1 did you give him a solid time or did you just say early 

 

3 did you tell him what size to bring does he even have a larger capacity one

 

id probably sit down with him tell him the issues and give him one more go at a not to critical event and if he fucks up again then ditch him 

 

[maxgamble2]

Honestly - I'd give him your honest opinion of his performance on the shoot and give him one more chance, or he's out... But who would take such chances on a career making opportunity such as this? Pfft

[.spider.]

That's definitely a question I would ask random people on a forum who don't know the person at all.

[AbrahamoLincolni]

18 minutes ago, Xanthe_2871 said:

How old is he? Does he have his own car? There really should be no excuse for being an hour late, unless someone close to him just died, or he's deathly ill.

 

The battery part is easier to understand, since as you say he is still learning. I can say I relied only on the battery that came with my camera for years before realizing how useful multiple batteries can be! As for doing his own thing, again that's not excusable. Unless your commands were ambiguous. Maybe he didn't understand what exactly you wanted him to do? Or maybe he didn't really want to be there for you, but just for himself.

 

What's "small"? Was it enough for the shoot? Was he doing photos only, or video too? Did you tell him what size he should bring? Was he shooting in RAW?  

 

LOL. Was she hot? Ok, to be serious, that is very unprofessional! Again I ask, how old was he?

 

16 minutes ago, Alaradia said:

1 did you give him a solid time or did you just say early 

 

3 did you tell him what size to bring does he even have a larger capacity one

 

id probably sit down with him tell him the issues and give him one more go at a not to critical event and if he fucks up again then ditch him 

 

 

15 minutes ago, maxgamble2 said:

Honestly - I'd give him your honest opinion of his performance on the shoot and give him one more chance, or he's out... But who would take such chances on a career making opportunity such as this? Pfft

I gave him a brief a few days in advance, telling him what to bring, what to buy if he needed and what I will provide for him and a schedule.  He's 21 and yes he has his own car.

 

He has a D5300 and an 8GB SD card, so I told him and even lent him some money to buy a couple of 64GB cards and an extra battery.  I didn't have any SD cards since I am using compact flash on all my cameras.  I brought my spare 24-70 and a SB900 flash for him to use.  All I wanted him to do was stay at one spot so that me, my wife and him would form a triangle around the wedding area.  This way we can cover different angles.  I wasn't expecting him to catch all the important moments, but just to experience the pace of photographing a wedding.  Later I wanted him next to me during the reception and dance so that he sees the moments I'm trying to catch.  Instead of coming over when I told him to, I found him flirting with the girl.

[AkiraDaarkst]

2 hours ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

So a friend of mine asked me to hire his son as an assistant last month because the kid is keen on becoming a professional photographer, and I looked at the kid's work.  They were very nice.  Today, his first day in a pro shoot where he can get some experience, he fucking screws up. 

 

1st I tell him to come early, so I can use him as a third cameraman at the wedding I was photographing. He comes an hour late. 

2nd he forgets to charge his camera battery and doesn't listen to what I say and does his own thing unless I keep an eye on him.

3rd he brings only a small capacity memory card.

4th he hits on one of the bridesmaids.

 

A few days before the wedding I was going over the plan with him and told him how to prepare.

 

Luckily my wife, who also happens to be my second shooter is there to help me out and the 2 of us manage to get through the wedding.   I'm thinking of telling my friend his son won't be working with me any longer.  @AkiraDaarkst, what do you think, should I get rid of the kid?

 

2 hours ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

 

 

I gave him a brief a few days in advance, telling him what to bring, what to buy if he needed and what I will provide for him and a schedule.  He's 21 and yes he has his own car.

 

He has a D5300 and an 8GB SD card, so I told him and even lent him some money to buy a couple of 64GB cards and an extra battery.  I didn't have any SD cards since I am using compact flash on all my cameras.  I brought my spare 24-70 and a SB900 flash for him to use.  All I wanted him to do was stay at one spot so that me, my wife and him would form a triangle around the wedding area.  This way we can cover different angles.  I wasn't expecting him to catch all the important moments, but just to experience the pace of photographing a wedding.  Later I wanted him next to me during the reception and dance so that he sees the moments I'm trying to catch.  Instead of coming over when I told him to, I found him flirting with the girl.

 

Drop him!  I don't give anyone more than one chance, it's not baseball.  This is your work, your reputation on the line.  You hired him to be an assistant so that he could learn from you, instead he doesn't listen to your advice and comes unprepared.  Amateurs who can't follow the rules or doesn't even have the common sense are worthless.

 

I know that we all started out as amateurs, but I guess I'm old school.  Work is work, when it comes to work I give no quarter.  I'll help and encourage those who are willing, and those who aren't... they can say goodbye.  When I started out as a photographer I put all my focus into it.  I expect people who want to become photographers to have the same attitude.

[xQubeZx]

I'd drop him too from what I hear. Firstly he is 21, a grown ass man, not a kid imo. But if you get an oportunity like this you work hard. This guy seems to have a bit of a too laid back style and just hopes everything will come to him without him doing any real work. Like his father hooked him up with this work. I could see that happening if he was like 16 years old but not really 21. He should have been the one approching you asking for work in the first place. 

 

And being one hour late is not acceptable. Especially if you have access to a car. That he forgot to charge his battery can be an honest misstake, not a good one but it can be accepted. But it together with all other things. Like flirting with a bridesmade is very inapropriate and unproffesional. 

 

I'd drop him. There are a lot better people that are willing to work hard, listen and learn to become a better photographer and maybe get a chance to be one for real later in life. I've had several work where I have been expected to work hard and I have seen people do the same work that couldn't handle it. And those did not get a second chance. In my mind it doesn't feel like you got a amateur but more of a wannabe. 

 

(Also just for fun, would you look at my porfolio and say if I would be decently enough for work like assisting on shoots?)

[AkiraDaarkst]

amateur: a person who engages in a pursuit or activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit.

 

Here's how I see photographers and cinematographers:

• Professionals: those who work for money, to make a living and support themselves.  Either working for agencies or working as freelancers.  Some pros can be nice, some arrogant, but they know what they're doing and usually gets the job done.
• Amateurs: those who do photography or cinematography because they are passionate about the craft.  In some ways similar to professionals, they will spend and invest in gear (including accessories, software, etc) they feel is necessary, essential.  Quite a number of them have the tendency to suffer from GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome).  Some amateurs are fanatically passionate about the craft that they will try to learn as much as they can, experiment, explore, aren't afraid to try new things.  They like criticism, though they can sometimes act hostile towards negative criticism.  They like discussions.  In a way, they can be thought of as Nerds or Geeks of the craft.

Then we have the weekenders, the soccer moms, the social media bloggers, snap shot takers.  They're not into photography or cinematography for the money (though some of them will try things to make a quick buck), they don't feel any real passion for the craft, they don't like being called "amateur" because they think it belittles them (they seem to prefer the word "enthusiast") when they don't actually even reach those levels, they make snarky comments on photo forums, they think their work is already good enough and don't deserve any negative criticism, they are so absorbed in the technical they often forget that photography and cinematography is more about the art, they think gear and technology matters more than vision and creativity, they're cheap, they don't want to really invest in anything that may help them improve... in essence they don't want to improve.  They're "Know-It-Alls".

 

2 hours ago, xQubeZx said:

(Also just for fun, would you look at my porfolio and say if I would be decently enough for work like assisting on shoots?)

You have a lot of potential.  If I ever do a project in Sweden, I'll may contact you and hire you as an assistant shooter even if I have others working with me as secondary or tertiary cameraman.  You wont be working independently to produce something you can call your own, but you'll get to experience how things are done and you'll be paid for it.  I don't use unpaid interns and assistants, everyone deserves a fair share of compensation for the time and effort spent.

 

I have a network of pros and amateurs that I've gathered from photo/video forums where I participate, I have contacts via Facebook groups for professionals and users/owners of the kinds of gear I use or the areas I cover.  Often when I travel, I just call them up or post a message asking "those in the region or near the location, anyone interested in collaborating?" if I have the budget to work with them.

 

Just as people helped me when I started out, I try to pass it on to others and help them out.  But I do have a short temper sometimes and can lose patience with people I feel are not putting in any effort while claiming "they love/enjoy the craft".

[AbrahamoLincolni]

So I had a long talk with his father today, he was present of course.  You can imagine the way the conversation went when my friend, his father, turned to him and yelled at him for an hour.

 

His father begged me to give him one more chance, else he will be kicked out of his house.

 

I even got an email from the bride, who is supposed to be enjoying her honeymoon, complaining about him creeping out her friend.

 

 

@AkiraDaarkst Like you said, we started out as beginners and we want to help others.  I take on a few assistants a year, some from art colleges who want to get some hands on experience, others who want to see how it feels like working in a pro environment.  They don't always end up becoming pro, but they learn and grow.

 

I can guess which one of the people who commented to my topic belongs in the third group.

[AkiraDaarkst]

2 hours ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

So I had a long talk with his father today, he was present of course.  You can imagine the way the conversation went when my friend, his father, turned to him and yelled at him for an hour.

 

His father begged me to give him one more chance, else he will be kicked out of his house.

 

I even got an email from the bride, who is supposed to be enjoying her honeymoon, complaining about him creeping out her friend.

 

 

@AkiraDaarkst Like you said, we started out as beginners and we want to help others.  I take on a few assistants a year, some from art colleges who want to get some hands on experience, others who want to see how it feels like working in a pro environment.  They don't always end up becoming pro, but they learn and grow.

 

I can guess which one of the people who commented to my topic belongs in the third group.

Good, I guess he deserved to be yelled at.  So are you going to give him another chance?

[cc143]

On first impression, this kid seems to suffer from the irresponsibility that plagues this generation (which I'm a part of and grow more ashamed of that daily!). We are quick to blame others for our own shortcomings, without the slightest consideration that we reap what we sow, even worse, the mere mention of the fact leads to a temper tantrum only fitting for 5 year olds. 

 

I'm not a professional photographer neither do I aspire to be, I have however had a fair amount of experience with applying for work in my own chosen field and my outlook on this is, this was an assessment centre and the person in question has failed miserably. Providing him with a second chance might do more harm than good, making the severity of the consequence of his own actions less prominent in his mind. Successful people have become successful by learning from failure, which is often a more valued experience than anything else. 

 

The fact that he was yelled at doesn't serve any other purpose than to reinforce the belief that he is still treated like a child. So the point here is this, are you willing, knowing that to risk him ruining your own reputation? Of course, there may be complications with your own relationship with the father etc. which is unfortunate, but in the end, unless the kid is sincerely sorry, which I kind of doubt, giving him a second chance at this point may do him a disservice. 

 

Also, not to overstep, but the fact that you spoke with his father rather than voice your dissatisfaction to him directly may even reinforce his own tendency to believe he is still a child and has no responsibility. 

 

What I would do, as inexperienced as I am is create a scenario where the kid has to work for the second chance to be given and prove that he has learned from these mistakes and is unlikely to repeat them. 

[AbrahamoLincolni]

22 hours ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Good, I guess he deserved to be yelled at.  So are you going to give him another chance?

I'm considering it, talking it over with my wife.  He would have to change is behavior and attitude.

On 6/5/2017 at 10:00 AM, xQubeZx said:

 

(Also just for fun, would you look at my porfolio and say if I would be decently enough for work like assisting on shoots?)

It appears my reply to your comment was never posted.  Sure send me a link to your portfolio, but if Akira says it's good, I'll take his word for it.

7 hours ago, cc143 said:

On first impression, this kid seems to suffer from the irresponsibility that plagues this generation (which I'm a part of and grow more ashamed of that daily!). We are quick to blame others for our own shortcomings, without the slightest consideration that we reap what we sow, even worse, the mere mention of the fact leads to a temper tantrum only fitting for 5 year olds. 

 

I'm not a professional photographer neither do I aspire to be, I have however had a fair amount of experience with applying for work in my own chosen field and my outlook on this is, this was an assessment centre and the person in question has failed miserably. Providing him with a second chance might do more harm than good, making the severity of the consequence of his own actions less prominent in his mind. Successful people have become successful by learning from failure, which is often a more valued experience than anything else. 

 

The fact that he was yelled at doesn't serve any other purpose than to reinforce the belief that he is still treated like a child. So the point here is this, are you willing, knowing that to risk him ruining your own reputation? Of course, there may be complications with your own relationship with the father etc. which is unfortunate, but in the end, unless the kid is sincerely sorry, which I kind of doubt, giving him a second chance at this point may do him a disservice. 

 

Also, not to overstep, but the fact that you spoke with his father rather than voice your dissatisfaction to him directly may even reinforce his own tendency to believe he is still a child and has no responsibility. 

 

What I would do, as inexperienced as I am is create a scenario where the kid has to work for the second chance to be given and prove that he has learned from these mistakes and is unlikely to repeat them. 

I didn't give the full story.  I told him to come meet me the next day in the morning so we could have a private talk.  He didn't show up so I went to talk to his father.  And right now I'm discussing with my wife how to deal with it as his father is a good friend of ours.  If we decide to give him a second chance, he will have to behave in a certain way and adhere to certain rules.  Both his parents want him to find a direction or focus for his future, he's been doing one odd thing after another for the past year.

[cc143]

27 minutes ago, AbrahamoLincolni said:

 

I didn't give the full story.  I told him to come meet me the next day in the morning so we could have a private talk.  He didn't show up so I went to talk to his father.  And right now I'm discussing with my wife how to deal with it as his father is a good friend of ours.  If we decide to give him a second chance...

You already gave him a second chance, he basically spat in your face by not showing when you set a meeting in which, unless he is quite slow he should have realised you were going to basically tell him off.

 

Dropping this kid may be the biggest favour anyone ever did to him, sometimes what you need is a strong kick in the rear, this kid needs a truck to crash on his as to help him get the memo by the looks of things.

 

Also, I think this isn't an issue of him being an amateur photographer but a character issue. The key is to tackle every task as if it will pay. For instance when asked to take a charity job which you know will not help your professional career (say photographing your child's scout troop event or something of the sort) and assuming for x y and z reason you won't get much recognition for it. You would still treat it as a job,just like an amateur who has a professional temperament would do in the same instance. 

[AbrahamoLincolni]

On 6/6/2017 at 9:40 PM, cc143 said:

You already gave him a second chance, he basically spat in your face by not showing when you set a meeting in which, unless he is quite slow he should have realised you were going to basically tell him off.

 

Dropping this kid may be the biggest favour anyone ever did to him, sometimes what you need is a strong kick in the rear, this kid needs a truck to crash on his as to help him get the memo by the looks of things.

 

Also, I think this isn't an issue of him being an amateur photographer but a character issue. The key is to tackle every task as if it will pay. For instance when asked to take a charity job which you know will not help your professional career (say photographing your child's scout troop event or something of the sort) and assuming for x y and z reason you won't get much recognition for it. You would still treat it as a job,just like an amateur who has a professional temperament would do in the same instance. 

In the end my wife and I decided not to give him a second chance.  And you're right, this wasn't really an issue about amateur photographers.  It's about character issues, but I find this in many people who want to become photographers or say they want to become photographers.  They spend $500-1000 at least on a new camera and don't even know how to use it properly.