Your opinions on G2A

[noisebomb44]

10 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Why do you keep saying it's illegal? It's the entire fucking point: G2A enables people to break the fucking law.

It's not illegal to use G2A much like it's not illegal to use torrent software, G2A is just a marketplace for game keys, buying a key is not necessarily illegal. It's the users that use stolen credit cards that do the illegal part, and what is criticised by many is the lack of policing or security on the marketplace. Now the stolen credit card argument is not what I was talking about, but it is the reason why I'm no longer buying from G2A, I just pointed out that region price exploitation is not a problem

[Misanthrope]

57 minutes ago, noisebomb44 said:

It's not illegal to use G2A much like it's not illegal to use torrent software, G2A is just a marketplace for game keys, buying a key is not necessarily illegal. It's the users that use stolen credit cards that do the illegal part, and what is criticised by many is the lack of policing or security on the marketplace. Now the stolen credit card argument is not what I was talking about, but it is the reason why I'm no longer buying from G2A, I just pointed out that region price exploitation is not a problem

G2A wouldn't be the software in this analogy but the tracker. Running a tracker where you know illegal torrents are being served IS illegal you can't really use that defense as willful ignorance still carries responsibilities which is what G2A is doing here: providing a platform that any reasonable person can see carries grey area or flat out illegal products just by the pricing alone which is often absurdly discounted.

 

This is why the creators of the bit torrent protocol have never been in trouble but the guys running the pirate bay have, multiple times.

 

[noisebomb44]

33 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

G2A wouldn't be the software in this analogy but the tracker. Running a tracker where you know illegal torrents are being served IS illegal you can't really use that defense as willful ignorance still carries responsibilities which is what G2A is doing here: providing a platform that any reasonable person can see carries grey area or flat out illegal products just by the pricing alone which is often absurdly discounted.

 

This is why the creators of the bit torrent protocol have never been in trouble but the guys running the pirate bay have, multiple times.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think it's necessarily illegal to use G2A since you can use G2A to buy legitimate game keys much like you can use pirate bay to download software you own, something being illegal is judged by your individual actions, not the actions the company people are selling the keys through. Let's put it this way, it's not illegal for me to buy legitimate products off of the mafia, even though they have committed numerous crimes

 

EDIT:

But this might change from country to country, as I understand it there is no "illegal by association"

[Misanthrope]

13 minutes ago, noisebomb44 said:

I don't think it's necessarily illegal to use G2A since you can use G2A to buy legitimate game keys much like you can use pirate bay to download software you own, something being illegal is judged by your individual actions, not the actions the company people are selling the keys through. Let's put it this way, it's not illegal for me to buy legitimate products off of the mafia, even though they have committed numerous crimes

 

EDIT:

But this might change from country to country, as I understand it there is no "illegal by association"

There's actually no assurances that what you're getting is not a stolen or otherwise illegal key. That was the whole AMA drama right there: someone showed how easy is to scam people officially through the G2A system and it makes sense if you think about the cases of revoked keys, companies threatening G2A and again, the impossible low fucking prices you can often find.

[noisebomb44]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

There's actually no assurances that what you're getting is not a stolen or otherwise illegal key. That was the whole AMA drama right there: someone showed how easy is to scam people officially through the G2A system and it makes sense if you think about the cases of revoked keys, companies threatening G2A and again, the impossible low fucking prices you can often find.

 

It's still not illegal to use G2A in of itself and you can buy keys that are confirmed to be legitimate by buying official developer provided keys on some games, anyway this is turning more into an argument about terms, but my point was that region pricing is not being hurt by G2A, although there are still many other problems with it

[Misanthrope]

11 minutes ago, noisebomb44 said:

It's still not illegal to use G2A in of itself and you can buy keys that are confirmed to be legitimate by buying official developer provided keys on some games, anyway this is turning more into an argument about terms, but my point was that region pricing is not being hurt by G2A, although there are still many other problems with it

You haven't argued why is not being hurt by G2A: It is actively exploited by users on the platform and G2A is uninterested in doing anything about it since its a big draw to the platform.

 

You then say "Publishers can region lock" and failed to mention how that isn't a mere nuisance for people looking to take advantage of weaker regional pricing and such. Bottom line is everybody knows regional keys not locked, stolen, given out for revewing purposes, etc. Are the bulk of the really good deals that draw in people to the platform. It's basically enabling grey area and flatout illegal activity but people seem to be ok with recommending it and encouraging it's use whereas they condemn things like piracy which is actually less of a problem since there's no profit being made there vs here where direct profit out of potentially counterfeit digital products its being made.

 

Sorry but there's a very clear double standard by everybody supporting G2A and Kinguin and such when even youtubers recommend you get a "cheap" Windows key from them which is to me no different than recommending that you just fucking crack windows, except worst since crackers don't really make a profit but counterfeiters do.

[noisebomb44]

4 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

You haven't argued why is not being hurt by G2A: It is actively exploited by users on the platform and G2A is uninterested in doing anything about it since its a big draw to the platform.

 

You then say "Publishers can region lock" and failed to mention how that isn't a mere nuisance for people looking to take advantage of weaker regional pricing and such. Bottom line is everybody knows regional keys not locked, stolen, given out for revewing purposes, etc. Are the bulk of the really good deals that draw in people to the platform. It's basically enabling grey area and flatout illegal activity but people seem to be ok with recommending it and encouraging it's use whereas they condemn things like piracy which is actually less of a problem since there's no profit being made there vs here where direct profit out of potentially counterfeit digital products its being made.

 

Sorry but there's a very clear double standard by everybody supporting G2A and Kinguin and such when even youtubers recommend you get a "cheap" Windows key from them which is to me no different than recommending that you just fucking crack windows, except worst since crackers don't really make a profit but counterfeiters do.

 

 

It's impossible to get through the region lock since the average user who will be buying from these sites don't want to go through the effort of using a VPN and avoiding being caught tricking steam into believing they are in a different region. I agree with you that G2A is damaging the game devs like I said in the OP, but exploiting region pricing is not an issue.

[Misanthrope]

14 minutes ago, noisebomb44 said:

It's impossible to get through the region lock since the average user who will be buying from these sites don't want to go through the effort of using a VPN and avoiding being caught tricking steam into believing they are in a different region. I agree with you that G2A is damaging the game devs like I said in the OP, but exploiting region pricing is not an issue.

Which is it, impossible or unlikely? Cause being unlikely does not mean impossible. 

 

Also are you aware of widespread cheating on some games? People do go through some length to cheat and not affect their main accounts no surprise there. 

[noisebomb44]

29 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Which is it, impossible or unlikely? Cause being unlikely does not mean impossible. 

 

Also are you aware of widespread cheating on some games? People do go through some length to cheat and not affect their main accounts no surprise there. 

1

 

 

The average user is not going to go through the hassle of tricking steam into thinking they are from somewhere else, there is no arguing in that, and if the average user was so dedicated to saving those 5 dollars on every game they buy, the gaming industry would be in a lot more problems than just G2A, therefore I would say it's impossible to exploit the region lock, and even if it were, you would not discourage devs from using region pricing like you said in your original post by using G2A. Also, cheating is not done by the average user, if that were the case games like CSGO would not be playable

[Misanthrope]

Just now, noisebomb44 said:

The average user is not going to go through the hassle of tricking steam into thinking they are from somewhere else, there is no arguing in that, and if the average user was so dedicated to saving those 5 dollars on every game they buy, the gaming industry would be in a lot more problems than just G2A, therefore I would say it's impossible to exploit the region lock, and even if it were, you would not discourage devs from using region pricing like you said in your original post by using G2A. Also, cheating is not done by the average user, if that were the case games like CSGO would not be playable

Regional pricing (and other forms of discounts so we don't sidetrack on that tangent) is a hell of a lot more than 5 bucks.

 

More over I'd argue that even if it wasn't the industry would be just fine: No game releases significantly cheaper at release where they make the majority of profits, the sales are just to pick up some extra revenue left on the table but the marketing, costs of production, etc. Are all made back within just a few weeks of release. Discounting to 70, 80 even 90% off after it's been months/years since release basically means they're making extra cash people otherwise weren't willing to pay for.

 

So the fact that the discounts are fairly deep is not the issue, is the fact that they can be 50 or 60% off the retail price at launch because of things like promotional keys and such.

[noisebomb44]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Regional pricing (and other forms of discounts so we don't sidetrack on that tangent) is a hell of a lot more than 5 bucks.

 

More over I'd argue that even if it wasn't the industry would be just fine: No game releases significantly cheaper at release where they make the majority of profits, the sales are just to pick up some extra revenue left on the table but the marketing, costs of production, etc. Are all made back within just a few weeks of release. Discounting to 70, 80 even 90% off after it's been months/years since release basically means they're making extra cash people otherwise weren't willing to pay for.

 

So the fact that the discounts are fairly deep is not the issue, is the fact that they can be 50 or 60% off the retail price at launch because of things like promotional keys and such.

2

Well, most regional prices differ +-5 dollars from the country in the middle, if we take planet coaster as an example, it's 33 dollars in the US and 36 dollars in Chile(highest price). I don't get what you mean is wrong with people selling promotional keys, clearly, if the company sees that it loses a ton of money by G2A selling their own printed promotional keys, why would they keep printing them? It's their economy, causing an inflation of their game is their own fault, not the resellers. The only way I could see the price being artificially lowered by key sellers is by using stolen credit cards.

 

Now if you want proof of regional pricing not being exploited since you seem to be denying it look at planet coaster again, it's priced at 12 dollars in China, and yet G2A prices it at 25 dollars global, which is about what you pay for it in Mexico, which they have chosen to include in the same region as the US. Clearly, Chinese keys can't be sold to the western world like you suggest and cause a game to go really cheap at launch

[leelaa14]

Why is it, we're not really allowed to discuss piracy in this forum and yet we're allowed to discuss and recommend g2a to people? Seems strange.

[noisebomb44]

2 minutes ago, leelaa14 said:

Why is it, we're not really allowed to discuss piracy in this forum and yet we're allowed to discuss and recommend g2a to people? Seems strange.

It's because there aren't huge media companies witch hunting G2A like with piracy

[leelaa14]

Just now, noisebomb44 said:

It's because there aren't huge media companies witch hunting G2A like with piracy

Does it matter though? If g2a are so bad and doing illegal shit, then surely it would be blocked from discussion from this site?
You're suggesting that this forum lets anything go unless it's frowned upon by the media?
Personally I feel if there was concrete evidence, then there would be no discussions about g2a allowed on here, but because there is no evidence, no one can prove shit and all the statements everyone is coming up with is just he said she said.

[typographie]

23 minutes ago, leelaa14 said:

Why is it, we're not really allowed to discuss piracy in this forum and yet we're allowed to discuss and recommend g2a to people? Seems strange.

I've often wondered the same. I agree, it is kinda strange, with all we know about G2A today.

[noisebomb44]

28 minutes ago, leelaa14 said:

Does it matter though? If g2a are so bad and doing illegal shit, then surely it would be blocked from discussion from this site?
You're suggesting that this forum lets anything go unless it's frowned upon by the media?
Personally I feel if there was concrete evidence, then there would be no discussions about g2a allowed on here, but because there is no evidence, no one can prove shit and all the statements everyone is coming up with is just he said she said.

 

 

 

Piracy is not just "frowned upon by the media", if your website contains information related to piracy you are at risk of being sued or taken down, not so much with G2A. There is pretty concrete evidence of G2A doing illegal things though, it's just that they are based in China which makes it really hard to impossible to sue them

Edited April 15, 2017 by noisebomb44
Missquoted

[leelaa14]

5 minutes ago, noisebomb44 said:

Piracy is not just "frowned upon by the media", if your website contains information related to piracy you are at risk of being sued or taken down, not so much with G2A. There is pretty concrete evidence of G2A doing illegal things though, it's just that they are based in China which makes it really hard to impossible to sue them

1. Where is this concrete evidence? As even the so called "evidence" that TotalBiscuit gave to Gearbox was just statements and not solid evidence.
2. That still doesn't explain why g2a is still allowed to be recommended and discussed about on this forum, it's still recommending people to go and buy so called illegally purchased games isn't it?

Edit. Let me inform you on something, I agree it's not impossible for illegally obtained games to be sold on the g2a marketplace. The key word being marketplace.
The issue they had with Tinybuild g2a tried to resolve by asking them for a list of illegally obtained / stolen keys. Tiny Build said no, as they said g2a would re-sell the keys from the list.
That to me, is the biggest crock of shit. If the developers aren't willing to work with g2a and provide them with a list of stolen keys, then what else can g2a do? Do you honestly believe that g2a is actively seeking out to be labeled fraudsters? If so then you're a bit of a tool.

[noisebomb44]

Just now, leelaa14 said:

1. Where is this concrete evidence? As even the so called "evidence" that TotalBiscuit gave to Gearbox was just statements and not solid evidence.
2. That still doesn't explain why g2a is still allowed to be recommended and discussed about on this forum, it's still reccomending people to go and buy so called illegally purchased games isn't it?

 

 

1. Pretty much every dev can tell you that G2A are selling illegitimate keys, most notable is the tiny build scandal, which should be more than enough evidence for a lawsuit

2. No, because all keys on G2A aren't illegal and it's still unknown just how much of the G2A market is made up of illegal keys. Also, I think it's better if we talk about it, censorship has never lead to anything good

[leelaa14]

Just now, noisebomb44 said:

1. Pretty much every dev can tell you that G2A are selling illegitimate keys, most notable is the tiny build scandal, which should be more than enough evidence for a lawsuit

2. No, because all keys on G2A aren't illegal and it's still unknown just how much of the G2A market is made up of illegal keys. Also, I think it's better if we talk about it, censorship has never lead to anything good

Wow, a dev who doesn't like the fact they are not making money off of their keys being resold on g2a, is saying they're illegitimate? What are the odds?
If you was ever a console gamer (I was) You would know that the devs hate the used game market as they make no money from it, hence why they brought in the online pass shit, where once you used the code, if you sold that game, the code couldn't be used again, resulting in that game not being able to be played online. Unless the user buys a code.
I feel this is the same thing, devs are not liking that they're not making any money from re-sold games even though the they received the money for there games.

Also, when a dev says the keys are illegitimate, that can mean many things. For example, Green man Gaming, a well known online pc games retailer was accused of having illegitimate The Witcher 3 keys from the devs because the devs never directly gave them any keys to sell. You see where I'm going here?

Tiny Build refused to work with g2a in that "scandal". if devs give g2a a list of suspiciously obtained keys, g2a can block them from being sold on there site. Tiny Build chose not to take this route and that to me is on them.

Btw, I to feel censorship is bad and am happy to discuss instead, I'm in no way trying to get g2a censored on this forum, I'm merely making a point. I'm sure they guys that run this place are smart enough to know what to and not to censor, the fact that g2a isn't speaks for itself.

[noisebomb44]

18 minutes ago, leelaa14 said:

Wow, a dev who doesn't like the fact they are not making money off of their keys being resold on g2a, is saying they're illegitimate? What are the odds?
If you was ever a console gamer (I was) You would know that the devs hate the used game market as they make no money from it, hence why they brought in the online pass shit, where once you used the code, if you sold that game, the code couldn't be used again, resulting in that game not being able to be played online. Unless the user buys a code.
I feel this is the same thing, devs are not liking that they're not making any money from re-sold games even though the they received the money for there games.

 

2

The problem here is that the devs aren't making any money from the original key, I would be completely fine with G2A if they just sold keys people already paid for, but the thing is that people are buying games with stolen credit cards which the devs then have to refund when the bank finds out, but the devs can't get their game back because it has already been sold and activated. Now they could disable the key from working on the account it was activated on, however, they can't do that because people get really mad as seen when Ubisoft tried to do it

 

18 minutes ago, leelaa14 said:

Also, when a dev says the keys are illegitimate, that can mean many things. For example, Green man Gaming, a well known online pc games retailer was accused of having illegitimate The Witcher 3 keys from the devs because the devs never directly gave them any keys to sell. You see where I'm going here?

 

 

 

 

With illegitimate keys, I meant that they were bought with stolen credit cards, which makes the devs lose money in the end. The green man gaming (scandal) was different though, there were no reason to believe that those were illegal keys so I think it was fine

 

18 minutes ago, leelaa14 said:

Tiny Build refused to work with g2a in that "scandal". if devs give g2a a list of suspiciously obtained keys, g2a can block them from being sold on there site. Tiny Build chose not to take this route and that to me is on them.

 

1

Didn't know that, I will have to look it up.

[leelaa14]

3 minutes ago, noisebomb44 said:

 

End of the day, I don't feel g2a are to directly blame for stolen keys being sold.
If I stole a phone now, sold it to you, you re-sell it and then get given a load of stick because you've re-sold a stolen item, how would you feel?
What would you do in the future to improve yourself? There's only so much g2a can do without the help of the devs. They've offered a solution but devs don't want to cooperate with them "because they're bad", but why would a dev want to cooperate with a company that's allowing their games to be resold and the dev makes no money from? Why not just wait till shit hits the fan and put g2a in the frame?

I personally feel g2a does want to improve, after all, the better they look in the public eye and the more trust they earn, the more money they earn as people buy from the site more.
Remember, it's g2a directly buying with stolen credit cards, it's the people abusing the site. I always use a high rated seller who has made many successful transactions as like Ebay, they are people who seek that good standing reputation and don't want to ruin it.

[rattacko123]

I mainly use G2A for AAA games (civ 5 or middle earth is pretty damn cheap on G2A), otherwise I just buy from GOG, or steam if it's a developer I support.
I've recently been using kinguin instead of G2A because of the whole scandal going on.
 

[Aleks NE]

G2A is basiscally a cheaters market place, you get banned buy cheap key from Asia activate with VPN play again. 

[Guest]

Whaaaaaat? I never even knew there was a problem with G2A since I haven't really bought a game through them in a while. I'll definitely think twice when buying a game next time. I do enjoy using Kinguin from time to time though; does anyone know if they are the same way or?

[noisebomb44]

6 hours ago, Emilyraexo said:

Whaaaaaat? I never even knew there was a problem with G2A since I haven't really bought a game through them in a while. I'll definitely think twice when buying a game next time. I do enjoy using Kinguin from time to time though; does anyone know if they are the same way or?

They are even worse or just as bad from what i've heard because they managed to kind of stay out of the debate for most of the time, while G2A is the main focus in the debate and has had to do some (although from my understandning small) adjustments