120hz tv's?

[Glenwing]

There are true 120hz tvs but they are usually marketed at 240hz smooth motion or something like that.

I haven't looked into it, but I really doubt that. All LCD TVs (worth looking at, anyway) use IPS panels because TN viewing angles render a TV useless. Also HDMI does not support 1080p at 120Hz, so there would not actually be a way to use it.

[TheProfosist]

Yes, essentially. The 3:2 pulldown method that 60Hz displays use re-uses a frame twice or creates a "fake" frame in between real ones. It can result in stuttery or jittery motion playback. It can also reduce the visual quality in some cases/with some people.

Just a heads up tvs dont use 3:2 pulldown. Thats used on the content (mainly dvds now days) and some high end players but even then players usually remove it not add it.

3:2 pulldown is a way to get rid of the shuttering. You have probably wantched a bunch of video that has had this applied to it and never noticed. The shuttering comes from watching 24fps content on 60hrz display. The device is playing the content at 24 frames a second but the device its being viewed on is refreshing 60 times a second. 24 is not a multiple of 60 so at some point your going to refresh between frames so part of the image is on the next frame and the rest is on the previous. This is the shutter part of the image is moving but the other part is "catching up"

If your wondering why tvs dont do 3:2 pull down its because its ther instensive and you need to work on the video in a frame by frame basis which a tv is not aware of. Even if it was aware you would have a bunch latency and would need a dedicated chip for doing this or some pretty hefty genral processing power. I should point out that removing it isnt necessarily the easiest thing to do either which is why players usually only do it to the dvds that are marked are they are usuing a standardized pattern.

[TheProfosist]

I haven't looked into it, but I really doubt that. All LCD TVs (worth looking at, anyway) use IPS panels because TN viewing angles render a TV useless. Also HDMI does not support 1080p at 120Hz, so there would not actually be a way to use it.

I ca tell you that you have to buy a quite nice tv to get ips now days. Most are tn or va or variations on them. Tv panel tech is actually quite a bit different than monitor tech especially when you get beyond the smaller tvs that are based on monitors.

Hdmi does its either 1.4a or 1.4b from memory. 1.4 should have because the bandwidth needed for 4Kp30 should be just about the same as 1080p120.

[Glenwing]

I ca tell you that you have to buy a quite nice tv to get ips now days. Most are tn or va or variations on them. Tv panel tech is actually quite a bit different than monitor tech especially when you get beyond the smaller tvs that are based on monitors.

Hdmi does its either 1.4a or 1.4b from memory. 1.4 should have because the bandwidth needed for 4Kp30 should be just about the same as 1080p120.

It's not an issue of bandwidth, the HDMI chipset does not support 120Hz 1080p. You only get a black screen.

Yeah, VA- by IPS I meant non-TN, as it is difficult to get 120Hz out of anything else.

[TheProfosist]

It's not an issue of bandwidth, the HDMI chipset does not support 120Hz 1080p. You only get a black screen.

Yeah, VA- by IPS I meant non-TN, as it is difficult to get 120Hz out of anything else.

yes it is about bandwidth because if the bandwidth isnt there they cant dream of enabling it.

This is probably due to the fact that one or both of the devices doesnt have a high enough standard to support it. I imagine most things have 1.4 now I how ever dont know about the following revisions. The only things that I have found that specify what revision they have are graphics cards and monitors.

But yea I believe my samsung tv right now is a TN panel or some variation on the tech as it from one of their lower lines. It also has 120hz true motion which is 60z. It does support switching to 30 and 24 though also. It does claim to do 25 and 50 as well but any time I try to use those it chokes. The next seasons models do 240hrz true motion but really do 120hrz. the true motion bit is them faking doubling the framerate by flickering the backlight.

O and you asked about the use of true 120hz when you can use it over HDMI the only use then is 3D and the fact that for NTSC based countries they would have to put refresh rate switching into the monitor which would cut some cost (who knows how much though).

[Craftable124]

I have a curiosity question, if films/movies/ tv shows are filmed at ~24 FPS, what does 120HZ benefit? Wouldn't the film/movie/tv show have to be filmed+displayed at 120fps to benefit from the 120hz?

Yeah and they say It's good for sports and stuff but A LOT (pretty much all, I think) of video receivers only output 60Hz. Just to get more money from unknowing customers i guess.

[TheProfosist]

Yeah and they say It's good for sports and stuff but A LOT (pretty much all, I think) of video receivers only output 60Hz. Just to get more money from unknowing customers i guess.

you can benefit from 120hz even if you dont have 120fps content it just not in the way that most gamers think and deals far more with how video works. I believe ive actually gone over how it can be helpful already in this thread.

[Craftable124]

you can benefit from 120hz even if you dont have 120fps content it just not in the way that most gamers think and deals far more with how video works. I believe ive actually gone over how it can be helpful already in this thread.

There IS benefits, I wasn't very clear on that, but not AS beneficial as if the sports/content was recorded at 120fps and sent to people at 120fps, then displayed to people at 120fps over their set top box. I didn't read the mentioned post but AFAIK the TVs blend frames to make motion seem more smooth, so it's not like playing a game with a DP connection to your higher-than-60Hz monitor.

[Mbarton]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu**

 

I had a huge detailed post typed up about 120 Hz and the benefits of 24p playback on it, but I accidentally hit the back button and lost it all... Btw, it says "auto-saved" when typing. Anyone know how to recover an auto-save?

 

Anyway. Long story short, lookup 3:2 pulldown.

 

True 120 Hz panels can play back 24p content without having to use 3:2 pulldown (Which basically adds in an extra frame of info that has been "extrapolated" from existing frames). It's just better.

 

24 is divisible by 120 with a result being a whole number (24 / 120 = 5, whereas 24 / 60 = 0.4). This means you can simply double, (or in this case, quintuple) frames of content to achieve a higher frame rate.

That happens to me so much i just end up saying f*&^ it

[TheMissxu]

Also, I've mentioned else where: with 120Hz, lagged and torn frames are only displayed for 8 ms, instead of 16 ms with 60 Hz.

 

This fact obviously helps in gaming as it makes torn and lagged frames much less noticeable, especially when you are playing at 45 fps.

[Mbarton]

I own a 1080p 120 hz tv and i can tell the difference when i connect my pc to it from a 60hz monitor.120hrz tv are good when you can utilize and even if cant you gent a smoother experience as long as the tv is a good one

[Ertman]

I believe the 240hz tvs are the same as 120hz ones including their input restrictions, but refresh at 240hz. That being said I am sure there are tvs that do 120 input.