i7 7700 vs 7700K

[JayantBedwal]

I am trying to build my first PC all on my own. I work with applications which get benefit from Multi-Core Performance (or that is what I thin, like Xilinx Vivado, CHISEL build(Single Core performance but I high RAM)). I am not sure which processor to use, i7 7700K or 7700.
I am also wondering if I should get a Gigabyte Z270N-wiifi or H270N-wifi. What is the advantage of one over the other.

[TheKDub]

I'd go for the 7700k.
You'll get higher base and turbo clock speeds if you go with the 7700k, not to mention you'll be able to overclock it and such as well. Especially do so if you're getting a 'Z' board.

[Guest]

Just now, TheKDub said:

You'll get higher base and turbo clock speeds if you go with the 7700k, not to mention you'll be able to overclock it and such as well. Especially do so if you're getting a 'Z' board.

But an additional cost (good cooler for good oc and Z board costs more than regular B/H series board)

[Enderman]

K CPU + Z motherboard for overclocking for better performance.

[He_162]

The R7 1700 processor offers the same performance as the i7-7700, or almost as good as the i7-7700K, and it's cheaper.

 

The R7 1700 is cheaper, comes with a fan, and it's motherboards are cheaper as well, and you won't notice the difference in performance between the two at any resolution, you won't be dropping frames, and it will last you longer due to it having so many more cores / threads.

 

I would go with the R7 1700 for gaming, even if the intel processor offers slightly better performance, it won't be noticeable.

[JayantBedwal]

3 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

I'd go for the 7700k.
You'll get higher base and turbo clock speeds if you go with the 7700k, not to mention you'll be able to overclock it and such as well. Especially do so if you're getting a 'Z' board.

 

I have no experience with overclocking and I am considering a Cooler Master 212 cooler for cooling. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, JayantBedwal said:

I have no experience with overclocking and I am considering a Cooler Master 212 cooler for cooling. 

CM212 is not a really value cooler. Get something beefier if you plan on doing so

[JayantBedwal]

1 minute ago, He_162 said:

The R7 1700 processor offers the same performance as the i7-7700, or almost as good as the i7-7700K, and it's cheaper.

 

The R7 1700 is cheaper, comes with a fan, and it's motherboards are cheaper as well, and you won't notice the difference in performance between the two at any resolution, you won't be dropping frames, and it will last you longer due to it having so many more cores / threads.

 

I would go with the R7 1700 for gaming, even if the intel processor offers slightly better performance, it won't be noticeable.

 

But what about motherboard. I was considering a ITX motherboard, I don't think so there are any available for Ryzen(most probably I am wrong, please point me in right direction if I am , pretty new to this).

[JayantBedwal]

1 minute ago, deXxterlab97 said:

CM212 is not a really value cooler. Get something beefier if you plan on doing so

What do you suggest? I have no experience. 

Is it correct to assume that with CM212 I will be wasting the capabilities of a i7-7700K?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, JayantBedwal said:

What do you suggest? I have no experience. 

Is it correct to assume that with CM212 I will be wasting the capabilities of a i7-7700K?

It will cool good enough. But if you want ideal temps look for Noctua NH-D14/D15 or Dark Rock 3/Dark Rock Pro 3. Cheap ones could be Cryrig H7. Cryrorig R1 also on the nevel of DR and Noctua

[TheKDub]

14 minutes ago, deXxterlab97 said:

But an additional cost (good cooler for good oc and Z board costs more than regular B/H series board)

 

Even if he didn't OC it, he'd still be getting higher clock speeds from it, which also means better performance.

On Newegg, there's about a $35 difference, and you get roughly a 14% increase in performance (So just over $2 per 1% faster) ( http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-7700/3647vs3887 ) without overclocking.

 

Slap a Hyper 212 Evo or some beefier cooler on there and it'll be fine. It's a 91W TDP vs 65W TDP. Just for comparison, the i7 4790K has an 88W TDP, and the i7 6700K has a 91W TDP.

 

If he's already considering a Z board, then he might as well just get the 7700K as well, that way he can overclock it if he wants to. Otherwise he could still go with the 7700K, but get an H or B board instead and not overclock it. (Unless the specific board supports it)

[Misanthrope]

12 minutes ago, He_162 said:

The R7 1700 processor offers the same performance as the i7-7700, or almost as good as the i7-7700K, and it's cheaper.

 

The R7 1700 is cheaper, comes with a fan, and it's motherboards are cheaper as well, and you won't notice the difference in performance between the two at any resolution, you won't be dropping frames, and it will last you longer due to it having so many more cores / threads.

 

I would go with the R7 1700 for gaming, even if the intel processor offers slightly better performance, it won't be noticeable.

No it fucking doesn't. It offers better performance for workstation tasks like video encoding and such but worst performance in gaming.

[He_162]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

No it fucking doesn't. It offers better performance for workstation tasks like video encoding and such but worst performance in gaming.

I was referring to his remark about gaming performance, read the whole thread please.

The Ryzen 1700 actually performs better in almost all tasks whatsoever EXCEPT for around 20 frames (of around 150fps average) in games.

That's such a high amount of FPS, I cannot imagine a need for anything better, since it also offers better performance down the road, and with games being made around the idea of an 8 core processor, we can expect better results in the future, for the games I play, Ark, Battlefield, and similar games that will utilize all of those cores, Ryzen would perform better in games.

[JayantBedwal]

5 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

 

Even if he didn't OC it, he'd still be getting higher clock speeds from it, which also means better performance.

On Newegg, there's about a $35 difference, and you get roughly a 14% increase in performance (So just over $2 per 1% faster) ( http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-7700/3647vs3887 ) without overclocking.

 

Slap a Hyper 212 Evo or some beefier cooler on there and it'll be fine. It's a 91W TDP vs 65W TDP. Just for comparison, the i7 4790K has an 88W TDP, and the i7 6700K has a 91W TDP.

 

If he's already considering a Z board, then he might as well just get the 7700K as well, that way he can overclock it if he wants to. Otherwise he could still go with the 7700K, but get an H or B board instead and not overclock it. (Unless the specific board supports it)

 

Maybe I made a mistake while writing but I am considering a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler. I thought the one I mentioned is the same as this one. 

[JayantBedwal]

3 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

No it fucking doesn't. It offers better performance for workstation tasks like video encoding and such but worst performance in gaming.

I am not looking for gaming. Xilinx Vivado is a FPGA synthesis program and so is CHISEL. 

[TheKDub]

Just now, JayantBedwal said:

Maybe I made a mistake while writing but I am considering a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler. I thought the one I mentioned is the same as this one. 

 

The Hyper 212 Evo is a pretty good cooler for the money, it'd do fine with a 7700 or 7700K, and you could put a mild overclock on it as well and still be fine.

[He_162]

2 minutes ago, JayantBedwal said:

I am not looking for gaming. Xilinx Vivado is a FPGA synthesis program and so is CHISEL. 

Then Ryzen would perform FAR FAR FAR better than the i7, and it's cheaper. It also comes with a stock cooler that runs it really nice and cool.

 

R7 1700:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113428

 

Motherboard (B350)

https://pcpartpicker.com/mr/newegg/fPDzK8

[JayantBedwal]

1 minute ago, He_162 said:

Then Ryzen would perform FAR FAR FAR better than the i7, and it's cheaper. It also comes with a stock cooler that runs it really nice and cool.

 

I see that but my main concern is finding a motherboard that can fit inside a Phanteks Evolv ITX case for R7. I am not a fan of Intel or anything. I am getting a i7-7700K for $375-385 including a  Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler. Compared to this a Ryzen 1700 will cost me $329 with the cooler. So it all comes down to the wifi availability in the motherboard and getting it to fit inside a ITX case. 

[He_162]

Just now, JayantBedwal said:

I see that but my main concern is finding a motherboard that can fit inside a Phanteks Evolv ITX case for R7. I am not a fan of Intel or anything. I am getting a i7-7700K for $375-385 including a  Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler. Compared to this a Ryzen 1700 will cost me $329 with the cooler. So it all comes down to the wifi availability in the motherboard and getting it to fit inside a ITX case. 

I see, Ryzen ITX motherboards are a little ways down the road, but those 8 core processors offer a very huge increase in performance over the i7, so do you have the patience to wait for their release, if so, you should.

If not, I hope you can find a good motherboard for your i7, I'm pretty picky about them, so I avoid choosing for other people.

[JayantBedwal]

1 minute ago, He_162 said:

I see, Ryzen ITX motherboards are a little ways down the road, but those 8 core processors offer a very huge increase in performance over the i7, so do you have the patience to wait for their release, if so, you should.

If not, I hope you can find a good motherboard for your i7, I'm pretty picky about them, so I avoid choosing for other people.

 

How much down the road?

[He_162]

Just now, JayantBedwal said:

How much down the road?

Possibly 2nd quarter, or as far back as second half of 2017 sometime, we do not have a date yet.

[Droidbot]

8 minutes ago, He_162 said:

Then Ryzen would perform FAR FAR FAR better than the i7, and it's cheaper. It also comes with a stock cooler that runs it really nice and cool.

 

R7 1700:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113428

 

Motherboard (B350)

https://pcpartpicker.com/mr/newegg/fPDzK8

From research, Vivaldo uses cores 1-4 best, 4-8 is barely used.

[He_162]

5 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

From research, Vivaldo uses cores 1-4 best, 4-8 is barely used.

Actually, it uses as many cores as there are on the processor, but it does not utilize any more threads than there are cores, but since there are no 8 core processors without 16 threads, it doesn't really matter which you get, the Ryzen will still perform noticeably better than the i7.

 

I'm sure since they are actively updating that program still, that they will eventually utilize those threads, and or optimize it for more cores, but at the moment, the 8 cores would still greatly improve performance due to recent updates. ( Vivado 2012.2 or later use as many threads as there are cores, an will utilize 8 cores, but generally, only 4 are NEEDED for good performance, 8 is still going to improve performance)

[Droidbot]

10 minutes ago, He_162 said:

Actually, it uses as many cores as there are on the processor, but it does not utilize any more threads than there are cores, but since there are no 8 core processors without 16 threads, it doesn't really matter which you get, the Ryzen will still perform noticeably better than the i7.

 

I'm sure since they are actively updating that program still, that they will eventually utilize those threads, and or optimize it for more cores, but at the moment, the 8 cores would still greatly improve performance due to recent updates. ( Vivado 2012.2 or later use as many threads as there are cores, an will utilize 8 cores, but generally, only 4 are NEEDED for good performance, 8 is still going to improve performance)

Source? 

https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Welcome-Join/ISE-support-for-multicore-processors/td-p/376415 - Someone here said that over 4 cores does not help much. 

https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Simulation-and-Verification/Should-Vivado-use-multiple-CPU-cores/td-p/387315 - Only a single core used on a 16c processor

https://www.xilinx.com/support/answers/52905.html - No status on what cores it actually uses

https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Design-Entry/Change-the-default-number-of-threads-on-Vivado/td-p/309505 - Someone said here (at the bottom) that 2 to 4 makes a difference but 4 to 6 or 8 just makes memory usage rise and does nothing for performance. 

 

This seems like a single-core focused application and everybody here knows that Intel mainstream is best for that. 

[JayantBedwal]

2 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

Source? 

https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Welcome-Join/ISE-support-for-multicore-processors/td-p/376415 - Someone here said that over 4 cores does not help much. 

https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Simulation-and-Verification/Should-Vivado-use-multiple-CPU-cores/td-p/387315 - Only a single core used on a 16c processor

https://www.xilinx.com/support/answers/52905.html - No status on what cores it actually uses

https://forums.xilinx.com/t5/Design-Entry/Change-the-default-number-of-threads-on-Vivado/td-p/309505 - Someone said here (at the bottom) that 2 to 4 makes a difference but 4 to 6 or 8 just makes memory usage rise and does nothing for performance. 

 

This seems like a single-core focused application and everybody here knows that Intel mainstream is best for that. 

 

I have a Macbook Air with i5 with two cores. I also ran the same software on a i7-6700. It is way-way faster on the i7 processor. Maybe because it is a desktop machine with a much higher TDP or clock or anything else (not very sure) but it does seem to fly on that 4 core processor .