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Ok. Who here is of the male gender? Who here, who is of the male gender, has ever walked behind a person of the female gender and that person keeps looking back over their shoulder as if you are a convicted rapist on the loose and they look like they are thinking of ways to escape you. Have you ever felt so annoyed because you are disgusted by the fact they think you could sexually assault them. Now I am a young guy, not very buff, fit but not buff, and I don't look like I have any bad intentions, yet this has happened so many times to me. Like wtf is wrong with women? I get "better safe than sorry" but you have already seen me why are you still looking over your shoulder every 10 seconds? We are walking in broad day light with people around and you think I am here to rape you in the middle of the mall. Ahhhh.... Sorry I just had to let the frustration out. So. Here's a funny story. So I am at school, I am 16 and I have this girl next to me who I don't know very well, just as a friend (Note that I always had and always will have a strictly friend-like relationship) and I never gave any hints what so ever that I like her, which I did not. But on a few occasions she would sorta hugs my arm with her hands (sometimes in a subtle way, sometimes not) and say something like "Wow your arm is so warm, my hands are freezing!". Now this was distracting me in classes and was making me feel very uncomfortable being that that situation, so I wanted to say please stop it but I couldn't because I felt like I don't any "trouble", any awkward trouble. I just imagined talking to her in the future and knowing that she knows what happened before and that she would probably tell a different tale to her friends that I am gay or something and I just didn't want any trouble, but I didn't like it. So I played the normal human being card, I just went with the flow, I wasn't as "sensitive" as all them feminists are when a girl gets touched without her permission. So I had no problem with this honestly, it was awkward but I didn't make a fuss out of it because I am normal, not overly sensitive, I didn't go home and tell my mom that I got sexually harassed xD or some BS like that. BUT... BUT... On one day my teacher noticed her and she said something that made be SOOO mad she called me out and asked me why I WAS TOUCHING HER! And said I SHOULD KEEP MY HANDS TO MYSELF!!! (FFS!!!!! *Goes and kicks things around cus he is very annoyed even tho this happened a few years back**Sits back down**Takes a deep breath**Why am I even doing this?*) So the moral of the story is, if a person of the female gender touches you without asking you in school or something, scream out loud "HHHHHEEEEEELP, PLEEEASEE, SHE IS SEXUALLY HARASSING ME, AAAAAHHHHHH" Because in this day in age we need equality more than ever. Women decide to become more sensitive and take advantage of that, then it looks like we need to do the same XD. P.S Uhhh not sure if that last part is for real or not, I think I can actually do all that "sensitive" BS in real life, looks like I'm gonna have to deal with being sexually harassed (Sarcasm).

 

Hope you liked my story, please don't take it too seriously.

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I do think there is a genuine issue with this. Many women are fearful of going out at night for fear of getting raped, it's a societal thing because even though the chance they will get raped is pretty much zero, they are still scared because of this general mistrust of men that's been created in their minds.

 

About the whole touchng on the arm thing, I think this is a men's issue, it's horrible that if a woman drugs a man and has sex with him there is practically no consequence compared to the 7 years (minimum sentence in the UK) that a man would get for rape. Society is over-protective of women being exploited but there is a growing problem with men being exploited and not doing anything about it. When I'm in a night club and a girl feels my arse out of the blue it's fine but if I do the same to them I'm a creep with a slapped face.

 

So in conclusion, misandry is fine but misogyny isn't so put up or shut up.

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2 minutes ago, Mug said:

I do think there is a genuine issue with this. Many women are fearful of going out at night for fear of getting raped, it's a societal thing because even though the chance they will get raped is pretty much zero, they are still scared because of this general mistrust of men that's been created in their minds.

 

About the whole touchng on the arm thing, I think this is a men's issue, it's horrible that if a woman drugs a man and has sex with him there is practically no consequence compared to the 7 years (minimum sentence in the UK) that a man would get for rape. Society is over-protective of women being exploited but there is a growing problem with men being exploited and not doing anything about it. When I'm in a night club and a girl feels my arse out of the blue it's fine but if I do the same to them I'm a creep with a slapped face.

 

So in conclusion, misandry is fine but misogyny isn't so put up or shut up.

I agree with you, my story wasn't meant to be so serious but I got a little carried away. And you are right, there is a HUGE problem, and I think that women have the right to be scared, heck I understand completely if I put myself in their shoes. But society (Specifically the female side) has put a lot of focus on all men, making us all look bad as a whole even tho it's a small portion. Take for example rape, not all men are rapists (in fact the percentage is very small), but how many videos do you find on the internet getting bashed for making it look like we are? Now this problem doesn't stop here, the definition of rape has also been blurred completely to the point it just seems stupid, in some youtube videos I have watched it looks like they are poking fun at rape (Which is most definitely not funny) with their over exaggeration but in most of these videos the producers were dead serious which is pretty scary and that is why these videos blow up so much. Now I am fully aware that not a lot of people take these videos seriously because it's over the top however I think these kinds of videos (actually articles too) are creating that mistrust that you find women having in men. If I were to find a whole bunch of videos tomorrow trending that talk about how all women are raping you in ways you don't know that would make me feel maybe just a little concerned about this no matter if it is true or false, because the fact that people are discussing it makes me feel like something bad is really going on (sorta like if you are in a crowded place and people are getting loud and someone screams something that sounds bad, you don's stop to think that might be complete BS it's in your instincts to imagine the worst will happen).

 

As for the issue on double standards I am honestly quite shocked, it's 2017, "WOMEN = MEN" "IN WHAT WORLD IS 50C = $1? *or something like that*" "ALL MEN AND WOMEN ARE EQUAL" "HISTORY IS HERSTORY TOO" *****

*"You can't hit women cus women aren't men"

**"Men are all (taken from a survey conducted by BSJournalist) rapists, women are not"

***"You can't touch women without permission, but they can touch you"

****List goes on

 

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33 minutes ago, Mug said:

I do think there is a genuine issue with this. Many women are fearful of going out at night for fear of getting raped, it's a societal thing because even though the chance they will get raped is pretty much zero, they are still scared because of this general mistrust of men that's been created in their minds.

 

About the whole touchng on the arm thing, I think this is a men's issue, it's horrible that if a woman drugs a man and has sex with him there is practically no consequence compared to the 7 years (minimum sentence in the UK) that a man would get for rape. Society is over-protective of women being exploited but there is a growing problem with men being exploited and not doing anything about it. When I'm in a night club and a girl feels my arse out of the blue it's fine but if I do the same to them I'm a creep with a slapped face.

 

So in conclusion, misandry is fine but misogyny isn't so put up or shut up.

And I did mention that I look nothing like a rapist, heck where I am, a white guy is supposed to be like some saint (I don't know why, people ask to take photos sometimes, just cus I am white). You know what I mean, like I a normal guy. I fully understand if I were some 6 foot 5, slightly buff, and a 25 year old. It's hard to explain but have you ever walked past some guy and there is something about the look on his face or his posture or his body shape that just makes him look like he is on his way to bomb an orphanage or something? Well yea that's what I mean, sometimes you just "look" like a threat and sometimes you don't, fit into the "don't" section very very well. One look at people and you can already sense some kinda vibe, with me it's all 'normal' so it just annoys the crap out of me when women turn around every 10 sec thinking im some kind of rapist.

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Fuckin' kids these days.

But can't talk about feminism or this shit'll be locked.

 

  5f898308887800ad5b233cffd852f14f8d98b76e13cc6eba2f40d779fb1c3b98.jpg

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13 hours ago, Fungal said:

9 words... More men are raped in the US than woman.

[Citation needed].

(And even if this is true (which it isn't), how is this is not still an argument for the necessity of feminism?)

8 hours ago, WhatComesAround said:

So what's your point, am I not allowed to talk about feminism? (Genuinely curious)

No, my point is that we were talking about it in a recent thread (fairly politely, I thought), and then the thread was locked, on some horrid meninist rape-denial post at that.

 

 

8 hours ago, SCHISCHKA said:

Every couple of weeks it's in the news some girl beat up an attacker

 

8 hours ago, WhatComesAround said:

huh interesting :D Now that is a solution

It's really not. A very small percentage of rapes are the "attacker in a dark alley" type. The vast majority are someone you know and trust.

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1 minute ago, kingkickolas said:

The vast majority are someone you know and trust.

id say 99% of the news reports are about school teachers, priests or someone in a position of trust. The most recent local one is a martial arts instructor who targeted at risk youth. had accusations going back 2 decades that the cops ignored because he was also had some police as clients. Killed himself when his church asked the community to come forward

             ☼

ψ ︿_____︿_ψ_   

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1 minute ago, SCHISCHKA said:

id say 99% of the news reports are about school teachers, priests or someone in a position of trust. The most recent local one is a martial arts instructor who targeted at risk youth. had accusations going back 2 decades that the cops ignored because he was also had some police as clients. Killed himself when his church asked the community to come forward

This is a great point, but you can't only consider the rapes that make it onto the news. One would expect 99% of the news reports on rape to be about a community leader or a figure of some sort. This, of course, ignores the majority of rapes which take place in private places and never make it onto the news, and don't forget the staggering percentage of rapes that aren't even reported.

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2 hours ago, kingkickolas said:

[Citation needed].

(And even if this is true (which it isn't), how is this is not still an argument for the necessity of feminism?)

No, my point is that we were talking about it in a recent thread (fairly politely, I thought), and then the thread was locked, on some horrid meninist rape-denial post at that.

It's really not. A very small percentage of rapes are the "attacker in a dark alley" type. The vast majority are someone you know and trust.

Men in the US are more than twice as likely to be raped. 

in 2008 ~217,000 inmates (Purely male) reported being the victim of rape while in prison, with over a 95% confidence rate, compared to a total of only ~93,000 outside of prison (Which includes both genders too)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

 

All three of those sources are even strictly left biased too, so don't you dare try to use the "No, those sources don't count because they're baised!" Because they're biased in your favor.

 

Political threads and debate is against CoC here, because feminists like you come here, get their bubbles burst by the tech literate folk here (who can simply use google to disprove virtually anything you have to argue about in 30 seconds), and then they flip out and flame wars start. Just like AMD/Nvidia threads, and Religious threads.

People don't like it when their world view is torn down infront of them. How you respond doesn't matter, because others have ruined it for the folks here who don't flame religious or political debate.

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1 hour ago, Atmos said:

Men in the US are more than twice as likely to be raped. 

in 2008 ~217,000 inmates (Purely male) reported being the victim of rape while in prison, with over a 95% confidence rate, compared to a total of only ~93,000 outside of prison (Which includes both genders too)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

 

All three of those sources are even strictly left biased too, so don't you dare try to use the "No, those sources don't count because they're baised!" Because they're biased in your favor.

 

Political threads and debate is against CoC here, because feminists like you come here, get their bubbles burst by the tech literate folk here (who can simply use google to disprove virtually anything you have to argue about in 30 seconds), and then they flip out and flame wars start. Just like AMD/Nvidia threads, and Religious threads.

People don't like it when their world view is torn down infront of them. How you respond doesn't matter, because others have ruined it for the folks here who don't flame religious or political debate.

Well I seem to have rattled a couple cages! Don't worry, I'm not "offended" by your post and you haven't "burst my bubble". Just to get one correction out of the way quickly, religious and political threads are against CoC now because of flaming from both sides (or sometimes more than two sides), not just the sides against your worldview. That's everyone's fault.

 

To the meat of your argument now, you've got two great sources there, and then the Daily Mail. First of all, I don't know how you consider the Daily Mail left-leaning (as you assumed I am), it might the most inflammatory right-wing publication in Britain, and even calling it a "publication", instead of "tabloid" is pretty generous of me. Okay, got that one out of the way. And as for Wikipedia being left-leaning, literally anyone can edit Wikipedia (yes, even conservatives!). That is, as long as you've got sources.

 

Now you'll notice that even as poor as the Daily Mail is, at least the guy who writes the URL headlines has his wits about him. You'll notice the phrase "including prison sexual abuse" in the link (and also repeated again in the headline for emphasis). That's because when people talk about rape, they usually don't include prison rape in their statistics. That's because prison rape is drastically different from extra-prison rape. Specifically, why it's committed (retribution, punishment, and vigilante justice to name a few), how it's committed, and to whom it is committed (convicted rapists often get their comeuppance (if you'll excuse the vulgarism) in prison). Combining prison and extra-prison rape into one statistic is pretty much meaningless (which is probably why it was reported in the Daily Mail (zing!)), and only reflects a lack of understanding of the distinction between the two. (In fact, the article doesn't even make the argument that you're trying to make, they only give the extra-prison rape statistic for reference of scale.) In reality, when you're talking about you or me being raped, prison rape is completely irrelevant.

 

But, if you do want to discuss prison rape and how (usually) horrible it is, we can do that too. But we weren't.

 

I really have enjoyed this chat with you, I can assure you that my worldview was only a bit tickled by your post, and I look forward to your civil and reasoned response.

 

 

(PS. The holy trinity "bold, underlined, italics" looks almost as bad as all caps, just sayin'.)

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2 hours ago, kingkickolas said:

Well I seem to have rattled a couple cages! Don't worry, I'm not "offended" by your post and you haven't "burst my bubble". Just to get one correction out of the way quickly, religious and political threads are against CoC now because of flaming from both sides (or sometimes more than two sides), not just the sides against your worldview. That's everyone's fault.

 

To the meat of your argument now, you've got two great sources there, and then the Daily Mail. First of all, I don't know how you consider the Daily Mail left-leaning (as you assumed I am), it might the most inflammatory right-wing publication in Britain, and even calling it a "publication", instead of "tabloid" is pretty generous of me. Okay, got that one out of the way. And as for Wikipedia being left-leaning, literally anyone can edit Wikipedia (yes, even conservatives!). That is, as long as you've got sources.

 

Now you'll notice that even as poor as the Daily Mail is, at least the guy who writes the URL headlines has his wits about him. You'll notice the phrase "including prison sexual abuse" in the link (and also repeated again in the headline for emphasis). That's because when people talk about rape, they usually don't include prison rape in their statistics. That's because prison rape is drastically different from extra-prison rape. Specifically, why it's committed (retribution, punishment, and vigilante justice to name a few), how it's committed, and to whom it is committed (convicted rapists often get their comeuppance (if you'll excuse the vulgarism) in prison). Combining prison and extra-prison rape into one statistic is pretty much meaningless (which is probably why it was reported in the Daily Mail (zing!)), and only reflects a lack of understanding of the distinction between the two. (In fact, the article doesn't even make the argument that you're trying to make, they only give the extra-prison rape statistic for reference of scale.) In reality, when you're talking about you or me being raped, prison rape is completely irrelevant.

 

But, if you do want to discuss prison rape and how (usually) horrible it is, we can do that too. But we weren't.

 

I really have enjoyed this chat with you, I can assure you that my worldview was only a bit tickled by your post, and I look forward to your civil and reasoned response.

 

 

(PS. The holy trinity "bold, underlined, italics" looks almost as bad as all caps, just sayin'.)

I never said only one side flames. Nice strawman.

Quote

they flip out and flame wars start.

 

You got me there on the daily mail not being left leaning, I'm not british and was thinking of a different paper. However wikipedia is still stupidly biased on political and social issues, it doesn't take a genius to see that.

If you think wikipedia is bipartisan, then take a step back and actually look at who can edit what, and how those edits are moderated.

Wikipedia moderators and staff are widely left leaning and strongly biased, don't believe me? Look up anything to do with gamergate as a recent example of misconduct from wiki staff. Neutral standing accounts were actively removed and those who posted non-biased peices were banned from making further edits, and instead leftist propaganda depicting what "gamergate truly was!" replaced it.

 

Now, let me try to grasp what you've just said.

"they usually don't include prison rape in their statistics... that's because prison rape is drastically different... Specifically, why it's committed..."

Prison rape doesn't deserve to be called rape because sometimes its committed against those who've raped others, or as retribution for crimes?

I don't live in a society where its okay to kill/rape someone because they've killed/raped other people and are already serving a sentence and punishment for it. I'm not even going to entertain your way of thinking if this is how you perceive the world. Prison rape is real, you don't get to ignore it because its happening primarily to criminals.

 

PS. bold, italicized, and underlined font isnt meant to look any better than all caps or a larger font size. It's simply meant to not f*ck with formatting of the text for different devices.

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34 minutes ago, Atmos said:

I never said only one side flames. Nice strawman.

 

You got me there on the daily mail not being left leaning, I'm not british and was thinking of a different paper. However wikipedia is still stupidly biased on political and social issues, it doesn't take a genius to see that.

If you think wikipedia is bipartisan, then take a step back and actually look at who can edit what, and how those edits are moderated.

Wikipedia moderators and staff are widely left leaning and strongly biased, don't believe me? Look up anything to do with gamergate as a recent example of misconduct from wiki staff. Neutral standing accounts were actively removed and those who posted non-biased peices were banned from making further edits, and instead leftist propaganda depicting what "gamergate truly was!" replaced it.

 

Now, let me try to grasp what you've just said.

"they usually don't include prison rape in their statistics... that's because prison rape is drastically different... Specifically, why it's committed..."

Prison rape doesn't deserve to be called rape because sometimes its committed against those who've raped others, or as retribution for crimes?

I don't live in a society where its okay to kill/rape someone because they've killed/raped other people and are already serving a sentence and punishment for it. I'm not even going to entertain your way of thinking if this is how you perceive the world. Prison rape is real, you don't get to ignore it because its happening primarily to criminals.

 

PS. bold, italicized, and underlined font isnt meant to look any better than all caps or a larger font size. It's simply meant to not f*ck with formatting of the text for different devices.

Regarding the supposed "strawman" (emphasis mine):

5 hours ago, Atmos said:

Political threads and debate is against CoC here, because feminists like you come here, get their bubbles burst by the tech literate folk here (who can simply use google to disprove virtually anything you have to argue about in 30 seconds), and then they flip out and flame wars start. Just like AMD/Nvidia threads, and Religious threads.

People don't like it when their world view is torn down infront of them. How you respond doesn't matter, because others have ruined it for the folks here who don't flame religious or political debate.

Come on, be reasonable here. You conveniently left the antecedent out of your quote. Naughty, naughty!

 

 

If Wikipedia is wrong about something, you can edit it and cite your sources. Mods accept all edits that are well-sourced. That's the whole idea. If all the well-sourced documentation points to one conclusion, well, you're free to say that there's a conspiracy among the moderators, but just know that you're waist-high in conspiracy-theory territory now.

 

 

If I had said "prison rape doesn't deserve to be called rape", then yeah I think you would've had me over a barrel. But clearly I didn't. So... we can just skip that bit. (Talk about yer strawmans, eh?)

I also never said prison rape wasn't real. You can see me specifically saying that we can talk about it (as a real thing), in the post that you lightly skimmed (and quoted!) just before this one. (Whew, you could feed an army with all this straw!)

What I did say is the following: If we're talking about how dangerous or likely it is for you or me to be raped (which is what we do happen to be talking about), then the statistics of rape in prison are irrelevant. (I guess I just have to repeat myself/clarify this.) That is, if you say something like "you're more likely to be raped as a man than a woman in the US", well that's true, if you happen to stumble into a prison on the way back from Subway. Prisons are completely different societies than the outside, crossing between prison and the outside is even more drastic than crossing between countries. It's literally nonsense to talk about prison statistics as if it has any relevance to those not in prison. I hope this clarifies the distinction.

 

Once again, lovely chat. I eagerly await your measured and carefully considered response.

 

 

(PS. You misapprehend me. I wasn't saying one or the other was better, I was saying they both look (a) childish, or (b) crazy. Just one of the three will do fine for adding emphasis.)

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9 hours ago, Atmos said:

Men in the US are more than twice as likely to be raped. 

in 2008 ~217,000 inmates (Purely male) reported being the victim of rape while in prison, with over a 95% confidence rate, compared to a total of only ~93,000 outside of prison (Which includes both genders too)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/More-men-raped-US-women-including-prison-sexual-abuse.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

 

All three of those sources are even strictly left biased too, so don't you dare try to use the "No, those sources don't count because they're baised!" Because they're biased in your favor.

 

Political threads and debate is against CoC here, because feminists like you come here, get their bubbles burst by the tech literate folk here (who can simply use google to disprove virtually anything you have to argue about in 30 seconds), and then they flip out and flame wars start. Just like AMD/Nvidia threads, and Religious threads.

People don't like it when their world view is torn down infront of them. How you respond doesn't matter, because others have ruined it for the folks here who don't flame religious or political debate.

 

4 hours ago, kingkickolas said:

Regarding the supposed "strawman" (emphasis mine):

Come on, be reasonable here. You conveniently left the antecedent out of your quote. Naughty, naughty!

 

 

If Wikipedia is wrong about something, you can edit it and cite your sources. Mods accept all edits that are well-sourced. That's the whole idea. If all the well-sourced documentation points to one conclusion, well, you're free to say that there's a conspiracy among the moderators, but just know that you're waist-high in conspiracy-theory territory now.

 

 

If I had said "prison rape doesn't deserve to be called rape", then yeah I think you would've had me over a barrel. But clearly I didn't. So... we can just skip that bit. (Talk about yer strawmans, eh?)

I also never said prison rape wasn't real. You can see me specifically saying that we can talk about it (as a real thing), in the post that you lightly skimmed (and quoted!) just before this one. (Whew, you could feed an army with all this straw!)

What I did say is the following: If we're talking about how dangerous or likely it is for you or me to be raped (which is what we do happen to be talking about), then the statistics of rape in prison are irrelevant. (I guess I just have to repeat myself/clarify this.) That is, if you say something like "you're more likely to be raped as a man than a woman in the US", well that's true, if you happen to stumble into a prison on the way back from Subway. Prisons are completely different societies than the outside, crossing between prison and the outside is even more drastic than crossing between countries. It's literally nonsense to talk about prison statistics as if it has any relevance to those not in prison. I hope this clarifies the distinction.

 

Once again, lovely chat. I eagerly await your measured and carefully considered response.

 

 

(PS. You misapprehend me. I wasn't saying one or the other was better, I was saying they both look (a) childish, or (b) crazy. Just one of the three will do fine for adding emphasis.)

Atmos has a point, this wasn't supposed to become a war of who is right or who is wrong, I just gave you my perspective on the problem that is present today which is that women are being raped, the perception on rape is changing, and that women are all fighting for equality but have double standards. All I wanted was other people to give their opinion/solution to this ongoing problem which has resulted in countless awkward, annoying, unfair moments that men don't like. Your first educated response was:

"Fuckin' kids these days.

But can't talk about feminism or this shit'll be locked"

"This thread is bad, and you should feel bad"

 

I didn't get what you were even doing here at first and I didn't mind but it seems like you are here to create some drama that I didn't intend to have when I created this thread. I just gave you all a story from my life that I wished I could find a way to avoid maybe in the future if it occurs again which concerns both the part about women getting quick glances at me as if I am going to rape them or something and the part about the uncomfortable situation I had with that girl and how the teacher manage to twist the story around (Btw she said she'd have a talk with my parents, but she forgot to or something so lucky me 2 years ago XD). If you have nothing good to say, then move along to the next thread.

 

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10 minutes ago, WhatComesAround said:

 

Atmos has a point, this wasn't supposed to become a war of who is right or who is wrong, I just gave you my perspective on the problem that is present today which is that women are being raped, the perception on rape is changing, and that women are all fighting for equality but have double standards. All I wanted was other people to give their opinion/solution to this ongoing problem which has resulted in countless awkward, annoying, unfair moments that men don't like. Your first educated response was:

"Fuckin' kids these days.

But can't talk about feminism or this shit'll be locked"

"This thread is bad, and you should feel bad"

 

I didn't get what you were even doing here at first and I didn't mind but it seems like you are here to create some drama that I didn't intend to have when I created this thread. I just gave you all a story from my life that I wished I could find a way to avoid maybe in the future if it occurs again which concerns both the part about women getting quick glances at me as if I am going to rape them or something and the part about the uncomfortable situation I had with that girl and how the teacher manage to twist the story around (Btw she said she'd have a talk with my parents, but she forgot to or something so lucky me 2 years ago XD). If you have nothing good to say, then move along to the next thread.

 

I responded because the thread was full comments (sorry, including yours) containing misinformation and a bit of ignorance. I honestly thought it was gonna be locked before I even got a chance to respond. Surprised it got this far, but I'm glad it did! I think we've all learned some stuff (hopefully) and I think that is good. Have a great day!

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