Custom loop - what am I seeing here?

[foolishlywise]

I took apart my pc over the weekend for some maintenance work that needed doing. Thought might as well drain the loop.

 

I may have a problem though - 

 

The O-ring that sits between the volute and the res has some brown staining to it, as well as the bottom of the res having some residue (feels sort of oily - opaque, you can't see text through it). Wiping this residue with a cotton ball shows it to be dark green tiny particles. Smells kind of... rubbery? Like balloons.

 

Is it algae growth or copper-water reaction staining? I'm using EK Coolant Clear (the concentrated stuff I mixed into distilled water - 100ml EK stuff to 900ml distilled). 

 

[8-Bit Ninja]

Did you wash out all your rads before you assembled the loop?

[gtx1060=value]

it looks like the gunk that grows inside brass instruments for anyone who played

[foolishlywise]

4 minutes ago, 8-Bit Ninja said:

Did you wash out all your rads before you assembled the loop?

Indeed - rinsed with distilled water couple of times (half filled them with water, shook them around and then emptied). Forgot to mention this loop was assembled in September (so 6 months old). 

[8-Bit Ninja]

4 minutes ago, FoolishlyWise said:

Indeed - rinsed with distilled water couple of times (half filled them with water, shook them around and then emptied). Forgot to mention this loop was assembled in September (so 6 months old). 

what does the cpu + gpu blocks look like, any brown gunk in either of them? 

[gtx1060=value]

ok, here's a diagnosis, green verdigris, basically when copper turns green - don't know if you have copper in ur loop or if this happens with any other metals, but i think it's a plausible explanation

'

Edit: also is for brass, other metals so....

[foolishlywise]

Okay so I opened the CPU block - I found something not nice. I think it looks like algae. I do have copper in the loop but whatever is in the cpu block (and which flew at my face when I opened it) seems biological.

 

Next steps? 

 

 

 

And @gtx1060=value the closest I got to playing an instrument was accidentally smashing a guitar over someones head. Could've been quite good

[gtx1060=value]

2 minutes ago, FoolishlyWise said:

Okay so I opened the CPU block - I found something not nice. I think it looks like algae. I do have copper in the loop but whatever is in the cpu block (and which flew at my face when I opened it) seems biological.

 

Next steps? 

 

 

 

And @gtx1060=value the closest I got to playing an instrument was accidentally smashing a guitar over someones head. Could've been quite good

definitely the green v something (forgot the name - been trying to fix some errors in code - fuck my life) i would clean it, and ask around on some instrument forums about the prevention of that crap - i don't know how it would be algae so ....

[foolishlywise]

Verdigris? Looking at the reaction thing equation (and some pictures on Google), that's the stuff that happens to copper coins when exposed to CO2 - oxidation. 

 

The dark green/very grey stuff inside the block is soft. I might be wrong about the chemistry though. Investigating still 

[foolishlywise]

Okay so a few interesting observations:

 

1) The fluid that was in the loop (which I kept). It's clear. Totally clear with no discolouration or anything nasty like that. All good on that front. Ran it through a filter too (some thick cotton) to see what residue there is, if any. None. None at all. 

 

2) The rads. Sticking in some distilled water and giving them a good shake revealed... nothing. Nothing on the base of the sink. Just water. Confirmed again by using a cloth as a filter. 

 

3) The stuff inside the CPU block. It smelt rubbery. There were strands of it. I used to use black tubing (the matte EK tubing) in this build before getting clear Primochill. It seems like there were fine strands of that tubing stuck in the block. 

 

4) The greasy reservoir. The EK coolant is ethylene glycol based - which, it seems, is slightly greasy. Got some coolant on my hands and they felt a bit greasy after. Im not sure about this one - no experience so far.

 

On this, I don't think it's algae. What I do plan to do is put the system back together again at the weekend/next week with some EK pre-mixed stuff and observe what happens. Its never been run just distilled - always had EK coolants used so I don't think there was a chance for algae to form.

 

Next maintenance window would be six months (August) so if no growth when inspected then, great. If there is, it'll be summer so a lot easier to clean everything up. Plus no university work to get done (which I should be doing, and was before this!) 

[Eddie Current]

The chalky looking stuff and some of the other trash is most likely from the radiator(s), I think you will be good to go, as long as you got it all cleaned up. It should get less and less as you flush the system. I too use EK clean, I filter mine through a coffee filter one or twice and then reuse it.

[OddsCrazyStuff]

Put the loop back together and run it with destilled water, do a few benchmarks to get the temps up and then drain the water through the filter to see if anything comes out.

If its still clean, then its most likely just remains of the fluid you are using and some metal particles.

[foolishlywise]

19 hours ago, Eddie Current said:

I think you will be good to go, as long as you got it all cleaned up.

 

14 hours ago, OddsCrazyStuff said:

 

Put the loop back together and run it with destilled water, do a few benchmarks to get the temps up and then drain the water through the filter to see if anything comes out.

 

Would heating up the radiators separately suffice? So loading them with distilled, heating them up until up to 45degC-50degC and then sloshing around and observing the water? Reason: The pump/res combo is being split (so new pump top/volute and res) as well as a new CPU block - and I don't want to run those things in what could be a dirty loop. Pump (d5) and rads staying the same, block, tubing and res is going to be new. 

 

Potentially silly question I am aware.

[Eddie Current]

I read somewhere about using vinegar but I'm not sure how much (ratio). Just try and get it as clean as you can now so you don't end up plugging up your WB's.

[OddsCrazyStuff]

7 hours ago, FoolishlyWise said:

 

Would heating up the radiators separately suffice? So loading them with distilled, heating them up until up to 45degC-50degC and then sloshing around and observing the water? Reason: The pump/res combo is being split (so new pump top/volute and res) as well as a new CPU block - and I don't want to run those things in what could be a dirty loop. Pump (d5) and rads staying the same, block, tubing and res is going to be new. 

 

Potentially silly question I am aware.

The problem is that they cool down quicker without a constant heat source, but your method will at least catch the surface stuff. Also, using hot water on the other parts might be a good idea, to wash away anything thats on them.

[foolishlywise]

7 hours ago, OddsCrazyStuff said:

The problem is that they cool down quicker without a constant heat source, but your method will at least catch the surface stuff. Also, using hot water on the other parts might be a good idea, to wash away anything thats on them.

I was thinking of using a hairdryer to heat the fins. One is a XE 120 and another is a PE 240 - not mahoosive rads but thick enough. But...

 

The chalky stuff is also present on the inside of the barbs and hot water hasn't removed it (took one of them and ran them under the tap). However using some isopropyl alcohol has done so (iso and then rinsing with distilled to get rid of the alcohol). 

 

I've read that radiators can be flushed with white vinegar to get rid of stuff like algae. Could the acid damage the copper in the rads used 50/50 or 40/60 vinegar to distilled in an effort to get rid of the chalky stuff?

 

EDIT: Many questions since I'm not undertaking this whole thing until Saturday (too much work to catch up on) so I have two and a bit days to be prepped)

[OddsCrazyStuff]

9 minutes ago, FoolishlyWise said:

I was thinking of using a hairdryer to heat the fins. One is a XE 120 and another is a PE 240 - not mahoosive rads but thick enough. But...

 

The chalky stuff is also present on the inside of the barbs and hot water hasn't removed it (took one of them and ran them under the tap). However using some isopropyl alcohol has done so (iso and then rinsing with distilled to get rid of the alcohol). 

 

I've read that radiators can be flushed with white vinegar to get rid of stuff like algae. Could the acid damage the copper in the rads used 50/50 or 40/60 vinegar to distilled in an effort to get rid of the chalky stuff?

 

EDIT: Many questions since I'm not undertaking this whole thing until Saturday (too much work to catch up on) so I have two and a bit days to be prepped)

I think an easier solution would be something like this: https://mayhems.co.uk/cleaning/mayhems-blitz-cleaning-system/

 

As for hair drier, that can work as long as you dont hold it too close.

 

[foolishlywise]

On 15/02/2017 at 3:23 PM, OddsCrazyStuff said:

I think an easier solution would be something like this: https://mayhems.co.uk/cleaning/mayhems-blitz-cleaning-system/

Apologies - I've been ridiculously busy in the past few days. I intend to keep this updated with my efforts.

 

So far, I have yet to get the Mayhems Part 1 (I didn't opt for the kit, no need since its only rads that aren't going to be clean). They sent it out 2nd Class Post so waiting for that to arrive. Probably Monday.

 

EK jetplate also decided to come bent so getting that sorted too. YAAAY delays!

 

Random thought: I'm using PrimoChill tubing. Could it be plasticiser leaching from that?

[OddsCrazyStuff]

31 minutes ago, FoolishlyWise said:

Apologies - I've been ridiculously busy in the past few days. I intend to keep this updated with my efforts.

 

So far, I have yet to get the Mayhems Part 1 (I didn't opt for the kit, no need since its only rads that aren't going to be clean). They sent it out 2nd Class Post so waiting for that to arrive. Probably Monday.

 

EK jetplate also decided to come bent so getting that sorted too. YAAAY delays!

 

Random thought: I'm using PrimoChill tubing. Could it be plasticiser leaching from that?

Get a new piece of tubing and hold it against an used one, if the newer seems more clear or the old one has a different color then it can be some plasticiser, but I think its more that the liquid separated or clumped up.

 

Just remember to follow the directions of the cleaning solution, its quite powerful.

Also, dont be afraid to flush it a few extra times, as any acid left in the radiator can mess with your liquid.

[foolishlywise]

Quick update (12pm, Sunday 19th Feb)

 

The Mayhems cleaning stuff arrived yesterday morning (woken up by the doorbell). It looked pretty serious. 

 

Mixed the 250ml Phosphoric Acid (0.1%) into the 750ml distilled as instructed and put it in a rinsed EK Premix Coolant bottle. I knew I wasn't going to use it all so put it in a clearly labelled bottle. The stuff doesn't smell when mixed up (which was a relief). I still have something like 500ml of the solution left (used on 1 240mm CoolStream PE and 1 120mm CoolStream XE). 

 

12 hours later (this morning) I tipped out the acid from the rads. Here's where it got interesting - the liquid was a light blue (aqueous CaCO3 colour - good old GCSE Science) but it looked reasonably clean coming out. Smelt quite strongly of wet penny coins (1p/1c). There were black flakes in the sink as well as the stuff that had got stuck in the block (see above). 

 

Rinsed with tap water for about five minutes and then distilled water three times with some shaking of the rad. Since they got ridiculously wet (as well as the bathroom floor turning into a semi lake), I've hooked them up to the psu with the fans to dry them out quickly. Going to give them a couple more distilled rinses and then leave them filled with distilled water until EK send out the new jet plates. 

 

Next update Wednesday or Thursday. Ample time for me to make some headroom with uni work. 

[0ld_Chicken]

Just FYI, mayhem's recommends using pt2 immediately after pt1 since it helps neutralize acids left by pt1. You should be OK if you rinsed really through you may want to check your system ph before calling it good

[foolishlywise]

@0ld_Chicken In hindsight (thinking about it now), I should've got part 2 as well. 

 

I did flush it out LOADS (as in I think I must've gone through three litres of distilled, and about 10 minutes tap water flow). I've got some litmus paper somewhere so I'll do a ph test when doing the first fill of the entire loop with the new block and res (distilled only). Cheers for the heads up!

[foolishlywise]

So, litmus paper test done. Gave it a final flush before doing the test and it seems to be all good! Compared the sample from a shaken-up rad to a sample that had been dipped into pure distilled water and they both turned out the same colour.  I was tempted to taste the water at one point but that was going a bit too far. Plus safety. 

 

So, it seems the next update will be around mid-March. Amazon's out of stock of the ASUS X99 WS 10GbE (lead time 1-2 months) so yay. Excellent. UGHHHH!