Thoughts on Indiegogo product

[edbasurto]

Hey guys! So I have a super small blog where I like to review products usually that are kickstarted or things like that, just to get opinions out there and learn more, and I came across this product on indiegogo from a friend who backed the project. Here's the link --> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/line-dock-thinnest-and-smartest-laptop-power-bank-battery--3#/ but I was reading through the page, taking my notes and what not to be able to post about it and see what seems like "too good to be true" and mixed or wrong information, and just thoughts, and when I saw their claims on the cooling, I wanted to ask questions since I don't know too much about how cooling works, as in which ways are best as to others and in sizes like this, so I wanted to get thoughts on their approach to the cooling? Will it work within certain limits? I personally feel like it wouldn't work too well, but I still need to learn. Thanks much y'all!

[CostcoSamples]

Ok I think I know how it works.  They are claiming they can generate temperatures 20 degrees BELOW room temperature.  They are probably using what's called a thermoelectric transducer.  It's a neat idea but in practice I don't think it will provide much cooling.  yes, it will get cold to the touch, but these little transducers aren't very good for anything that produces a lot of heat.

 

Also, the laptop would need to make good contact with the cooling pad, and you'd need the transducer to line up with the CPU or it won't do much good.

 

The other functions (ssd storage & battery) seem like they should be easy to implement.  Don't expect the cooling to be any good.

[Terrorjoekel]

I'd say its absolute bullshit. Claims of 'room - 20' temperatures with a picture of a fan and some heatpipes is ridiculous. 2 days of batterylife for a laptop in this thing is a retarded claim. Not every laptop has their hotspot in that particular place either, so im pretty sceptical.

 

Also there is no way a laptop will get 50 percent faster when it is kept from thermal throttling.....

 

I do really like this approach for more batterylife and more ports, this combined with a built-in Qi Charger for phones looks really nice. I think their marketingteam is going a little overboard on the claims but i do really like this idea for a product. 

 

This is just my opinion on the matter though, i might have missed something

[Terrorjoekel]

2 minutes ago, CostcoSamples said:

Ok I think I know how it works.  They are claiming they can generate temperatures 20 degrees BELOW room temperature.  They are probably using what's called a thermoelectric transducer.  It's a neat idea but in practice I don't think it will provide much cooling.  yes, it will get cold to the touch, but these little transducers aren't very good for anything that produces a lot of heat.

 

Also, the laptop would need to make good contact with the cooling pad, and you'd need the transducer to line up with the CPU or it won't do much good.

 

The other functions (ssd storage & battery) seem like they should be easy to implement.  Don't expect the cooling to be any good.

Yeah my thoughts exaclty, those inducers arent exactly power friendly either so these claims are probably just rediculous

[CostcoSamples]

If thermoelectric transducers were a great way to cool computers, every video card would use them.  We'd see them on every laptop.  They would be everywhere by now.

[Qwweb]

Quick note, they cite incredibly differing output voltages (which would effect Watt/hour ratings) in different parts of their specifications. The TSA allows batteries rated up to 160Wh, but several of the stated voltages would break this limit (12V 20000mAh=240Wh and 20V 20000mAh=400Wh). Keep in mind that the UL Watt/hour rating goes off of the theoretical maximum (20V) which would mean that the Line Dock would be 140Wh over the maximum allowable rating.

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Size limits: Lithium metal (non-rechargeable) batteries are limited to 2 grams of lithium per battery. Lithium ion (rechargeable) batteries are limited to a rating of 100 watt hours (Wh) per battery. These limits allow for nearly all types of lithium batteries used by the average person in their electronic devices. With airline approval, passengers may also carry up to two spare larger lithium ion batteries (101-160 watt hours). This size covers the larger after-market extended-life laptop computer batteries and some larger batteries used in professional audio/visual equipment.

https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/hazmat_safety/more_info/?hazmat=7

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Can I take the plane with Line Dock?
Yes. FAA limits battery capacity to 27,000mAh. As Line Dock capacity is 20,000mAh/ 74 Wh Max (Output 60W), you can keep it in your carry-on luggage. The battery upgrade available for the 15" version get the capacity of Line Dock up to 25,000mAh/ 92,500 Wh, which is still under the FAA limitations. Line Dock is safe for flying.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/line-dock-thinnest-and-smartest-laptop-power-bank-battery--3#/

Obviously they did not read the update to the FAA's limitations for lipo batteries. They also have quite a mathematical discrepancy for the Wh ratings of the 20,000mAh and 25,000mAh batteries (20,000mAh/ 74 Wh vs 25,000mAh/ 92,500 Wh ???)(FYI mAh to Wh is mAh*V/1000=Wh so according to Line Dock, the 25,000mAh battery delivers 3680V; that's safe right?

(92,000Wh*1000/25,000mAh=3680V)

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4 neodymium magnets embedded inside Line Dock helps you easily positioning your laptop on top of it and avoiding it to slide down.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/line-dock-thinnest-and-smartest-laptop-power-bank-battery--3#/

This is scary if you have a mechanical hard drive in your laptop.

[Qwweb]

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Can I connect more than one computer at once?
No. You can only connect one computer at a time. If a second USB-C laptop is connected to Line Dock, it will benefit from the battery (e.g. charging) but will not have access to the Hub, the SSD or any other port. 

So, did they mean to say yes...

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Do magnets have an effect on Line Dock components or on my laptop?
No. Line Dock is equipped with 4 neodymium magnets that have been perfectly calibrated and shielded to avoid any electronic damage or trouble on both Line Dock and the laptop.

Perfectly.. the famous last word for an engineer

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Do magnets affect the internal storage?
No, SSDs (Solid State Drives) are not sensitive to magnets.

What about HDDs inside a laptop?

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Can I connect a Line Dock to a Line Dock and then to my laptop?
Yes, you can connect up to two Line Dock together with no data speed loss. You then get access to twice the battery and twice the storage of one regular Line Dock.

...but why would you want to if it can last for as long as you claim...after all, what type of situation would see a Macbook (or other USB-C laptop) in use for 34 hours without plugging into an outlet, let alone 49 hours.

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Line Dock offers up to 15 additional hours of autonomy for your USB-C laptop as fast as a regular charger.  

 

[edbasurto]

Thanks a lot guys! Yea I seemed pretty sketched by all the info they gave and just seems like something that probably will be either disappointing or not even end up going out.

[Sniperfox47]

On 10/02/2017 at 2:23 PM, Qwweb said:

What about HDDs inside a laptop?

An external magnet, even a moderately powerful neodymium one, isn't going to damage any hard drive made in the past 15 years. Even if you took the hard drive physically out of your laptop and ran a consumer neodymium magnet over it point black it would likely be fine. The magnets they use to wipe hard drive are *insanely* powerful magnets. Don't put your floppies or credit cards near it though.

 

On 10/02/2017 at 2:23 PM, Qwweb said:

...but why would you want to if it can last for as long as you claim...after all, what type of situation would see a Macbook (or other USB-C laptop) in use for 34 hours without plugging into an outlet, let alone 49 hours.

 

For more SSD storage/extra ports. Although it's clearly a *very* slow SSD if you can chain two of them together, use the video outputs, sdcard reader, and still not have degraded performance from either SSD at USB 3.1gen1 5Gbps.

 

On 10/02/2017 at 1:50 PM, Qwweb said:

Obviously they did not read the update to the FAA's limitations for lipo batteries. They also have quite a mathematical discrepancy for the Wh ratings of the 20,000mAh and 25,000mAh batteries (20,000mAh/ 74 Wh vs 25,000mAh/ 92,500 Wh ???)

Yeah, they did what most indiegogo campaigns do and conveniently miss regulations for the sake of pushing their product. The 92500Wh thing is clearly a typo though since it lists it above in the tech specs as 92.5Wh which would put the battery voltage at a perfectly normal 3.8V

 

On 10/02/2017 at 1:00 PM, Terrorjoekel said:

Also there is no way a laptop will get 50 percent faster when it is kept from thermal throttling.....

It absolutely could in a theoretical environment where it was running passively cooled in an already hot room and was barely managing to keep itself functioning while throttled. Is it realistic? No. But can they get away with advertising it? Sure...? If they bend some rules.

 

My point here is not that this is a product you should rush to back, I'd never suggest crowdfunding something unless it's from a respectable company with past history, *especially* on indiegogo.

 

My point is simply that their claims are not impossible and that if it comes it it will likely be a decentish product as long as you don't set your expectations too high. On indiegogo you kind of need to market insanely to draw audience. It comes with the nature of the platform.

 

The USB-C headphones I funded are amazing. Do they live up to the marketing that was used to push them? No, but I didn't really expect them to. Crowdfunded products like this are typically fine as long as you temper your expectations and look at them from a realistic perspective.