Best laptop under $1500?

[Dackzy]

1 hour ago, KabuTheFox said:

Having trouble deciding between an msi laptop or an Alienware one 

 

Was considering the Acer posted earlier in this thread, but the heavy emphasis on red with no other options is kind of a deal breaker as silly as it sounds.

NEVER EVER go Acer, most of their laptops are pure shit, they have some very very few ones that are just eh and those are their high end predator laptops.

 

For the MSI and AW, I would just choose the one that checks most of your points

[Pendragon]

7 hours ago, KabuTheFox said:

Having trouble deciding between an msi laptop or an Alienware one 

https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP8156.html

 

How about this one

Also these images look like shit so this is how the laptop actually looks like. https://system76.com/laptops/oryx

[Galm]

14 hours ago, Dackzy said:

NEVER EVER go Acer, most of their laptops are pure shit, they have some very very few ones that are just eh and those are their high end predator laptops.

 

For the MSI and AW, I would just choose the one that checks most of your points

Have you used the new Predator laptops?  I 100% agree with you on literally the entire consumer Acer laptop lineup.  Trash.

 

Predator is a different team though.  Build quality was above MSI GT series only surpassed by Alienware.  It's very sturdy and premium.  Screen quality was also a great IPS and the speakers were some of the best I've ever heard on a laptop.  

 

My main concern with the Predator lineup after spending time with them is temps.  Some of them seem to hit temps in the 90s though the one I used was fine.  Otherwise they are most certainly not trash.  I've owned MSI GT series laptops and currently own a Clevo P650RS.  The Predator was definitely nicer.

 

But that nearly puts them in the same category as AW with all their temp issues this gen.

 

If you have real evidence of why its shit I'd love to hear it.  I'm not aware of any major issues on the Predator line up.  My biggest gripe with it personally is I think the aesthetic is absolutely awful.

[Dackzy]

27 minutes ago, Galm said:

Have you used the new Predator laptops?  I 100% agree with you on literally the entire consumer Acer laptop lineup.  Trash.

 

Predator is a different team though.  Build quality was above MSI GT series only surpassed by Alienware.  It's very sturdy and premium.  Screen quality was also a great IPS and the speakers were some of the best I've ever heard on a laptop.  

 

My main concern with the Predator lineup after spending time with them is temps.  Some of them seem to hit temps in the 90s though the one I used was fine.  Otherwise they are most certainly not trash.  I've owned MSI GT series laptops and currently own a Clevo P650RS.  The Predator was definitely nicer.

 

But that nearly puts them in the same category as AW with all their temp issues this gen.

 

If you have real evidence of why its shit I'd love to hear it.  I'm not aware of any major issues on the Predator line up.  My biggest gripe with it personally is I think the aesthetic is absolutely awful.

dude temps in the 90s is bad, you start to get thermal throttling in the low and mid 80s, so you don't get the performance you pay for, their cooling vs size is bad, they have shitty keyboards, you don't get what you pay for in any way at all and if something breaks then good luck getting help from them. I don't know how you have come to the conclusion that their build quality is good, I would call it okay at best, they just went with the most average things they could find in terms of parts and made it into a eh laptop with high temps.

 

I almost hate the Acer "support" team as much as the Razer "support" team.

I called the predator for eh.

A AW can at least get some okay temps if you don't have a warped heat sink.

[Galm]

57 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

dude temps in the 90s is bad, you start to get thermal throttling in the low and mid 80s, so you don't get the performance you pay for, their cooling vs size is bad, they have shitty keyboards, you don't get what you pay for in any way at all and if something breaks then good luck getting help from them. I don't know how you have come to the conclusion that their build quality is good, I would call it okay at best, they just went with the most average things they could find in terms of parts and made it into a eh laptop with high temps.

 

I almost hate the Acer "support" team as much as the Razer "support" team.

I called the predator for eh.

A AW can at least get some okay temps if you don't have a warped heat sink.

I was saying I've heard reports of high temps.  The unit I used had temps in the upper 70s.

 

The keyboard wasn't great, but I think MSI's are pretty awful.  So idk its somewhat subjective.

 

Build quality means how sturdily the laptop is built.  It's definitely solid and doesnt feel like itll fall apart putting in a backpack everyday.  MSI GT series don't feel that great.  I've owned em.

 

Quality control is the temp consistency, I don't know too much about that to be honest that part may be worse.

 

Support is also very different from build quality. Buy through a reseller.

 

Razer support being bad is important because a ridiculously high percent of machines have issues.  Acer isn't having defects at that rate from what I can tell of owners I've talked to.  Nearly every blade owner I've spoken to can tell you some problem with it.

 

So alienware build quality is still top tier.  Its a sturdy tough machine.  The quality control is just awful because the heatsink design is poor and temps unreliable.

[KabuTheFox]

18 hours ago, Pendragon said:

https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP8156.html

 

How about this one

Also these images look like shit so this is how the laptop actually looks like. https://system76.com/laptops/oryx

actually kinda confused on this as these are 2 different companies with the same looking laptop, is it the same but with different branding? never really seen that with laptops personally

[Dackzy]

7 hours ago, Galm said:

I was saying I've heard reports of high temps.  The unit I used had temps in the upper 70s.

 

The keyboard wasn't great, but I think MSI's are pretty awful.  So idk its somewhat subjective.

 

Build quality means how sturdily the laptop is built.  It's definitely solid and doesnt feel like itll fall apart putting in a backpack everyday.  MSI GT series don't feel that great.  I've owned em.

 

Quality control is the temp consistency, I don't know too much about that to be honest that part may be worse.

 

Support is also very different from build quality. Buy through a reseller.

 

Razer support being bad is important because a ridiculously high percent of machines have issues.  Acer isn't having defects at that rate from what I can tell of owners I've talked to.  Nearly every blade owner I've spoken to can tell you some problem with it.

 

So alienware build quality is still top tier.  Its a sturdy tough machine.  The quality control is just awful because the heatsink design is poor and temps unreliable.

So you have never laid your hands on one with high temps? Well I have and I have repasted a couple of the older predator with LM, which helps a lot.

 

Build quality is how well everything is made and put together, not just how well the cabinet is build, the feel also doesn't really matter, a alu body feels nice, is it strong? Nope, does a lot of companies use cheap screws and cheap glue to hold their laptop together? Yep. A strong cabinet would also not really matter if the motherboard or some other part is build like shit. Reviewers only really talk about how a product feels, which is frankly useless, a product can fell really amazing, but be put together really badly or use some part that easily breaks.

Build quality should be taken as the build quality of each part in a laptop, like you would on a desktop and not just the cabinet. Can you see how wrong it would be to judget a desktops build quality out from the cabinet? I could have this amazing 400$ cabinet and then have this cheap china PSU, 10$ motherboard, GTX1070 and a i7, the build quality of that system would be shit, because the build quality of the PSU and mobo is shit and is very likely to break.

 

Yes razer has a higher failure percentage, but I also think that there is a lot of people who don't RMA their cheap acer laptop that maybe lastet them 1½ years(you have 2 years of warranty by law in Denmark) and cost them 500$. That is just a theory, but I think it is very likely.

 

You do know that you can get dell or maybe even the reseller to check the laptop for a warped heat sink, right? Not saying this makes up for it, but it is an option. One of my friends really wanted the AW15r3, so he called Dell up and asked if they could check the heat sink and the temps before sending it out and so far it hasn't shown the spikes into the 90s.

[Pendragon]

5 hours ago, KabuTheFox said:

actually kinda confused on this as these are 2 different companies with the same looking laptop, is it the same but with different branding? never really seen that with laptops personally

 

It's a Clevo. So basically Origin, Cyberpower, anyone but the Tier 1 Manufacturers buy Clevos and rebrand it themselves. Clevos are also some of the best laptops.  

[Galm]

9 hours ago, Dackzy said:

So you have never laid your hands on one with high temps? Well I have and I have repasted a couple of the older predator with LM, which helps a lot.

 

Build quality is how well everything is made and put together, not just how well the cabinet is build, the feel also doesn't really matter, a alu body feels nice, is it strong? Nope, does a lot of companies use cheap screws and cheap glue to hold their laptop together? Yep. A strong cabinet would also not really matter if the motherboard or some other part is build like shit. Reviewers only really talk about how a product feels, which is frankly useless, a product can fell really amazing, but be put together really badly or use some part that easily breaks.

Build quality should be taken as the build quality of each part in a laptop, like you would on a desktop and not just the cabinet. Can you see how wrong it would be to judget a desktops build quality out from the cabinet? I could have this amazing 400$ cabinet and then have this cheap china PSU, 10$ motherboard, GTX1070 and a i7, the build quality of that system would be shit, because the build quality of the PSU and mobo is shit and is very likely to break.

 

Yes razer has a higher failure percentage, but I also think that there is a lot of people who don't RMA their cheap acer laptop that maybe lastet them 1½ years(you have 2 years of warranty by law in Denmark) and cost them 500$. That is just a theory, but I think it is very likely.

 

You do know that you can get dell or maybe even the reseller to check the laptop for a warped heat sink, right? Not saying this makes up for it, but it is an option. One of my friends really wanted the AW15r3, so he called Dell up and asked if they could check the heat sink and the temps before sending it out and so far it hasn't shown the spikes into the 90s.

You're missing the point that the Acer isn't built with the trash from their consumer line.  I dont care about the Aspire failure rate its not neccessarily correlative.

 

Acer Predator monitors are similarly far superior to their low end stuff.

 

Do you think Latitudes are crap because Dell 500 dollar consumer notebooks are?

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-17-G9-793-Notebook-Review.173668.0.html

[Dackzy]

3 hours ago, Galm said:

You're missing the point that the Acer isn't built with the trash from their consumer line.  I dont care about the Aspire failure rate its not neccessarily correlative.

 

Acer Predator monitors are similarly far superior to their low end stuff.

 

Do you think Latitudes are crap because Dell 500 dollar consumer notebooks are?

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-17-G9-793-Notebook-Review.173668.0.html

I call their predator for eh, while I call their normal nitro and what ever they call them for pure shit, so no I do know that they are different.

You are missing my point here, normal Acer laptops are pure shit, while their predator is eh, which is a huge difference.

 

Actually I do think that some of the cheaper latitudes are eh/okay, just like I think the ThinkPad E series are eh/okay

[Pendragon]

4 hours ago, Galm said:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Predator-17-G9-793-Notebook-Review.173668.0.html

But why would you ever get a Predator over a Clevo. There is no advantages to getting one. If you want TB3 maybe. But you lose MUX, you lose Prema and battery life is shit unlike AW. What competitive advantage does a Pred have over it's competition 

[Galm]

3 hours ago, Pendragon said:

But why would you ever get a Predator over a Clevo. There is no advantages to getting one. If you want TB3 maybe. But you lose MUX, you lose Prema and battery life is shit unlike AW. What competitive advantage does a Pred have over it's competition 

Not much.  

 

Build quality tbh though.  Did feel more sturdy than my P650, and honestly the P7XX don't feel that great.  The P7XX and P8XX series also have just awful keyboards.  The P6XX one is so much better for some reason.

 

I would never do it.  

[KabuTheFox]

On 1/14/2017 at 8:37 AM, Pendragon said:

It's a Clevo. So basically Origin, Cyberpower, anyone but the Tier 1 Manufacturers buy Clevos and rebrand it themselves. Clevos are also some of the best laptops.  

whats the advantage of a clevo over a bigger name brand ? besides the presumably lower price tag (even though the clevo's listed above were basically the same price of a new AW)

[Pendragon]

7 minutes ago, KabuTheFox said:

whats the advantage of a clevo over a bigger name brand ? besides the presumably lower price tag (even though the clevo's listed above were basically the same price of a new AW)

 

How are they anywhere near the price of a new AW. Like anywhere remotely close. LOL. They are easy to repair and replace parts. Everything is modular. Buying it from a Prema partner will ensure proper functional GPUs due to all Pascal cards in tier 1 manufacturers being TDP limited (it's by design). And that bar a few brands and models, most laptops from bigger brand names suck (gaming laptops, business laptops are a whole other story). 

[KabuTheFox]

13 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

How are they anywhere near the price of a new AW. Like anywhere remotely close. LOL. They are easy to repair and replace parts. Everything is modular. Buying it from a Prema partner will ensure proper functional GPUs due to all Pascal cards in tier 1 manufacturers being TDP limited (it's by design). And that bar a few brands and models, most laptops from bigger brand names suck (gaming laptops, business laptops are a whole other story). 

the default configurations for both the clevo's above were $1450-1550
a AW with a similar configuration is also $1500 (and currently on sale for a bit less) less i am really missing something here
biggest difference is if you want to change out particular parts from the default configurations, then AW is much more expensive. getting the 120hz screen from AW is +$150 while on the clevo's it is +$75-100
but the prices for the defaults is about the same with the only difference being the ram from as far as i can see. default AW is 8gb ram while the sager clevo are 16gb dual channel, to get the same result on AW it is $+100  (system 76 clevo is +90 for the 16gb dual channel)

(i rather just buy my own ram separately for much cheaper)

i actually have no idea what prema is ;-; forgive my ignorance

[Pendragon]

19 minutes ago, KabuTheFox said:

but the prices for the defaults is about the same with the only difference being the ram from as far as i can see. default AW is 8gb ram while the clevo's are 16gb dual channel, to get the same result on AW it is $+100  (i rather just buy my own ram separately for much cheaper)

 

 

https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8156-clevo-p650hp6-g/

you're the missing 256gb ssd. 

 

But that's quite interesting how AW's price curve goes up. You are correct in that the 7700HQ + 1060 is similar in price. Factoring the SSD and ram you add a few hundred to the price. But the price jump is really apparent when you move to a 7820HK + 1070. https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8157-clevo-p650hs-g/?ex=1

 

But you're forgetting a few things. The legendary AW battery life goes to shit on the new one cause GSync. The model you were looking at doesn't have the 99whr battery so that adds a little more cost, and for some reason AW can't put a functional MUX switch on their GSync models. 

19 minutes ago, KabuTheFox said:

i actually have no idea what prema is

He's a custom bios and vbios maker. @D2ultima anything to add?

[D2ultima]

11 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

He's a custom bios and vbios maker. @D2ultima anything to add?

Without Prema I wouldn't buy any laptops for performance

[KabuTheFox]

3 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8156-clevo-p650hp6-g/

you're the missing 256gb ssd. 

 

But that's quite interesting how AW's price curve goes up. You are correct in that the 7700HQ + 1060 is similar in price. Factoring the SSD and ram you add a few hundred to the price. But the price jump is really apparent when you move to a 7820HK + 1070. https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8157-clevo-p650hs-g/?ex=1

 

He's a custom bios and vbios maker. @D2ultima anything to add?

how did i miss that 256gb ssd, silly me. yea that woould be like an extra $150  on an AW ;-;

you're right though what price jump, had to change out some stuff cause the default doesnt have OS or the 7820HK and a couple other small things but still even adding that stuff that price difference is $400-500 compared to AW (atleast the highest default config for AW15 comes with 256gb ssd + 1tb HDD by default and 16gb ram, so those costs dont need to be added like before) 

and ah thank you

[Pendragon]

2 minutes ago, KabuTheFox said:

had to change out some stuff cause the default doesnt have OS

*cough* kinguin or microsoftstoreswap *cough* fuck buying retail keys LOL. 

[KabuTheFox]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

*cough* kinguin or microsoftstoreswap *cough* fuck buying retail keys LOL. 

im aware lol factored that in, without AW's current sale though that price difference is huge. like $600 difference

[Pendragon]

5 minutes ago, KabuTheFox said:

im aware lol factored that in, without AW's current sale though that price difference is huge. like $600 difference

Yea. I'm not saying AW laptops are bad. They are NOT price competitive at retail pricing. I just picked up an AW15 (black friday, wasn't back in NA for 2 months so only just started tinkering now) to tinker with and the list of mods I have done to it are disgusting to get it in working condition.

- Replaced the screen (Backlight bleed)

- Sanded the bezel (Backlight bleed)

- Bent the overall combined heatsink to avoid GPU contact fucking up

- Bent the 3 screw design on the CPU heatsink area to even it

- Going to sand down the heatsinks after I get the perfect fit

- Added in 850 evos

- Added in some 2667ram

- OCed the display

- Liquid Metaled everything

- Got some FJ pads and repadding things

- Replaced the Killer 1535 with a Intel 8265 (dear god do not get Killer, the thing is annoying as hell and I spent hours debugging it and it still doesn't work kill me now).

etc more to come. 

 

Also heads up if you go for the Clevo route with their P650xx series, the 1080p screens have some pretty bad backlight bleed too. The 4k Samsung PLS panel is pretty good I have it. The scaling engine on the 4k Samsung PLS panel works. Me and @Galm can confirm. So if you intend to get the Clevo, that 4k panel is a must (unless you're aiming for battery life, in which case, time to sand down bezels and replace panels like I did to get rid of backlight bleed). 

[Galm]

1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

Yea. I'm not saying AW laptops are bad. They are NOT price competitive at retail pricing. I just picked up an AW15 (black friday, wasn't back in NA for 2 months so only just started tinkering now) to tinker with and the list of mods I have done to it are disgusting to get it in working condition.

- Replaced the screen (Backlight bleed)

- Sanded the bezel (Backlight bleed)

- Bent the overall combined heatsink to avoid GPU contact fucking up

- Bent the 3 screw design on the CPU heatsink area to even it

- Going to sand down the heatsinks after I get the perfect fit

- Added in 850 evos

- Added in some 2667ram

- OCed the display

- Liquid Metaled everything

- Got some FJ pads and repadding things

- Replaced the Killer 1535 with a Intel 8265 (dear god do not get Killer, the thing is annoying as hell and I spent hours debugging it and it still doesn't work kill me now).

etc more to come. 

 

Also heads up if you go for the Clevo route with their P650xx series, the 1080p screens have some pretty bad backlight bleed too. The 4k Samsung PLS panel is pretty good I have it. The scaling engine on the 4k Samsung PLS panel works. Me and @Galm can confirm. So if you intend to get the Clevo, that 4k panel is a must (unless you're aiming for battery life, in which case, time to sand down bezels and replace panels like I did to get rid of backlight bleed). 

I'm sad that Eurocom no longer seems to offer the 4K Sharp displays.

[Pendragon]

50 minutes ago, Galm said:

I'm sad that Eurocom no longer seems to offer the 4K Sharp displays.

?????????? Were they better? I never noticed them cause GSync was only available for the Samsung and LG ones. 

[Galm]

1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

?????????? Were they better? I never noticed them cause GSync was only available for the Samsung and LG ones. 

They were nearly full Adobe RGB lol, complete sRGB.  They were way better looking but worse responding and no GSync.  Still if gaming was less of a priority they were really nice.  Even offered in matte and glossy.

[D2ultima]

2 hours ago, Galm said:

They were nearly full Adobe RGB lol, complete sRGB.  They were way better looking but worse responding and no GSync.  Still if gaming was less of a priority they were really nice.  Even offered in matte and glossy.

AUO 4K 17" is rated for 100% Adobe RGB and can get there with some calibration, though.

 

Unless you meant 15"?