Nvidia G-Sync Licensing

[Derangel]

When has Nvidia ever licensed anything out to AMD.

 

Nvidia tried to license CUDA to AMD but AMD turned them down. AMD later explained that it was due to them not liking closed source technology and preferring to support open tech like OpenCL.

[afa7336]

What the heck, AMD just go make an A-sync as software implementation

 

 

You'd have to do so much, I doubt AMD could pull it off. Mostly you'd have to have a vender onboard to deal with it. And with G-Sync I don't know many that would want to have two different types. Also, I dunno how legal it would be to tie into Nvidias G-Sync via Reverse Engineering. Not a lawyer, but from what I read, not really exactly legal.

[Derangel]

You'd have to do so much, I doubt AMD could pull it off. Mostly you'd have to have a vender onboard to deal with it. And with G-Sync I don't know many that would want to have two different types. Also, I dunno how legal it would be to tie into Nvidias G-Sync via Reverse Engineering. Not a lawyer, but from what I read, not really exactly legal.

 

From what little I understand it would depend entirely on patents. If Nvidia holds a patent on the tech behind G-Sync then AMD can not legally reverse engineer it or make a product using that tech. This is what happened when Nvidia brought SLI back and AMD tried to counter with a horrid version of Crossfire. AMD had to design Crossfire from the ground up, avoiding the patents Nvidia got when they purchased 3DFX. The same thing could happen with G-Sync.

[afa7336]

From what little I understand it would depend entirely on patents. If Nvidia holds a patent on the tech behind G-Sync then AMD can not legally reverse engineer it or make a product using that tech. This is what happened when Nvidia brought SLI back and AMD tried to counter with a horrid version of Crossfire. AMD had to design Crossfire from the ground up, avoiding the patents Nvidia got when they purchased 3DFX. The same thing could happen with G-Sync.

 

And I bet that Nvidia does have a patent. AMD should just grab their balls, and eat whatever pride and beg to implement it no matter the cost.

Edited October 29, 2013 by afa7336

[James_AJ]

You'd have to do so much, I doubt AMD could pull it off. Mostly you'd have to have a vender onboard to deal with it. And with G-Sync I don't know many that would want to have two different types. Also, I dunno how legal it would be to tie into Nvidias G-Sync via Reverse Engineering. Not a lawyer, but from what I read, not really exactly legal.

it was a freaking joke

[TechFan@ic]

And I bet that Nvidia does have a patent. AMD should just grab their balls, and eat whatever pride and beg to implement it no matter the cost.

Pride has nothing to do with it, Linus says some really stupid things sometimes & this is one of those times.

It's the same thing when Nvidia claimed it wanted to license PhysX to AMD a few years back, how did that work out ?

Nvidia has already expressed no intention of licensing it to the competition.

It's in this interview, don't know exactly when.

[afa7336]

Pride has nothing to do with it, Linus says some really stupid things sometimes & this is one of those times.

It's the same thing when Nvidia claimed it wanted to license PhysX to AMD a few years back, how did that work out ?

Nvidia has already expressed no intention of licensing it to the competition.

It's in this interview, don't know exactly when.

 

As you did last time, you didn't exactly get it correct. AT THIS TIME is what he said, at this time we aren't licensing it. But AMD should put a foot forward and BEG. That way they can say they tried something, but its Nvidia holding them back. This is business, AMD can either sulk in a corner or grow up and try to go get a license. They don't, well, they'll miss out on pretty much the future of monitors for years and years and years to come.

 

*By the way, this is MY OPINION, not Linus. My name isn't Linus, nor even close. I am a business owner, who has had to go to another Company, a competitor and ask for help with something. And it cost me money. But it also got me more business in the long run. Before you try and equate peoples opinion to others, you MIGHT just want to find out why they feel that way. It shows a lack of understanding of the concept of free thought. 

[solomongrundy]

49 minute mark. He's pretty much says no to other videocards using this tech.

Pride has nothing to do with it, Linus says some really stupid things sometimes & this is one of those times.

It's the same thing when Nvidia claimed it wanted to license PhysX to AMD a few years back, how did that work out ?

Nvidia has already expressed no intention of licensing it to the competition.

It's in this interview, don't know exactly when.

[afa7336]

49 minute mark. He's pretty much says no to other videocards using this tech.

 

 

*facepalms* Again not exactly what he says... He said, they have no plans at this time to license it, and because of the hardware involved no other GPUs will work, AND that it would be some time before others could use G-Sync, and its not on Nvidia to make it happen or make other GPUs work.

[kuddlesworth9419]

My takeaway from it was that they had no interest in telling AMD how to build their GPUs to run it. Or did I miss a part where he said that AMD wouldn't be allowed to do the hand shake and act with the G-Sync module? That said, I might just be too hopefull

 

 

So just speculation on your part then  Oh, and BTW, since you didn't know, see my attachment

Thanks.

[sirreco]

The guys that would benefit from G-Sync the most are the console developers since they have very limited resources, well it happens that both consoles use AMD's GCN graphics architecture.

Nvidia is in a tough spot here, both Tim Sweeney and John Carmack primarily develop for consoles and both kept citing the benefits to the consoles during the Nvidia event.

So Nvidia would be shooting itself in the foot by not licensing this technology to AMD.

 

What consoles? Those that are out there already and those that are coming out this year, certainly don't have the GPU hardware comparable with G-Sync, and by the time the next generation of consoles comes (if any), this stuff will be already 10 years old and outdated.

[Fetzie]

So what about having an el cheapo GTX 650 in the rig to talk to the G-Sync module?

[Matsy]

So what about having an el cheapo GTX 650 in the rig to talk to the G-Sync module?

 

Pretty sure it can't do that (if you mean using a nvidia card in the same way you can with physx while your main card is a AMD)

The GPU "talking" to the g-sync module is the one outputting the frames to the monitor.

[ofr057]

I can see patent wars starting up between amd and nvidea, G - sync would of been alot better if asus announced it then nvidea said they are already in place to support it.

 

alot of technology's seem to be out there but stalling because the developers are keeping patents close to them - sorta like LG and OLED's

[Guest GRRigger]

I don't want to get anyone excited, but Johann Andersson slipped a diamond in the Nvidia PR event, he mistakenly referred to G-Sync as "Double Sync" and grilled Tamasei about it being a "software" implementation, Tamasei refused to answer.

AMD obviously has something in the works that Johann knows about & has to do with Mantle & "double sync"

got video for me mate?

[IAmSkip]

And by not making it a technology available for all hardware vendors you end up with things like PhysX, awesome idea, but ultimately something people won't bother with if the user base isn't be very large. Now while G-Sync may be a feature set in expensive monitors, unless it becomes wide spread I can't see it trickling down into cheaper/more mainstream monitors. Mantle is something that could go that way too...

[kuddlesworth9419]

And by not making it a technology available for all hardware vendors you end up with things like PhysX, awesome idea, but ultimately something people won't bother with if the user base isn't be very large. Now while G-Sync may be a feature set in expensive monitors, unless it becomes wide spread I can't see it trickling down into cheaper/more mainstream monitors. Mantle is something that could go that way too...

G-sync has a much better chance of becoming a success then Mantel does. G-Sync is the first thing of it's kind however we already have API's. G-Sync will be a success whether people buy it or not because eventually it will be in everything.

[IAmSkip]

G-sync has a much better chance of becoming a success then Mantel does. G-Sync is the first thing of it's kind however we already have API's. G-Sync will be a success whether people buy it or not because eventually it will be in everything.

I want it to become a standard thing as much as you do, it really comes down to how passionate the companies are about implementing it, hopefully Nvidia allows it to not become a "closed" system. 

[solomongrundy]

how is that different from " it's not going to happen"? if it ever does happen, you are looking at years and years down the line.

if you click your heels three times and wish really hard, maybe your dreams will come true. Goodluck to you.

*facepalms* Again not exactly what he says... He said, they have no plans at this time to license it, and because of the hardware involved no other GPUs will work, AND that it would be some time before others could use G-Sync, and its not on Nvidia to make it happen or make other GPUs work.

[KaareKanin]

I doubt it is done on a hardware level. It should be as simple as telling the monitor to refresh when a new frame is ready..

 

In any case I really hope someone reverse engineers it and finds out exactly what is being sent..

What he said was something along the lines that "doing it on a HW level provided the most elegant solution". So not that it couldn't be done with SW, but that it was better done on HW. My first reaction when I saw the live stream from the nVidia event was that it probably tied in with the same HW nVidia is using to do their frame pacing. I don't have any specific sources to quote on this, but my first reaction was that the time aspect with how long they had been working on G-Sync and when they got a HW solution to frame pacing fitted quite nicely together.

Edit: This should have been posted yesterday, but I must have closed the lid on my laptop too early or something, so it got posted now instead

[Nicktrance]

I definitely hope some standard can be developed to eventually replace vsync, I know it won't happen soon but that standard is really outdated and involves too many compromises which can be avoided. That said I could see that being really difficult to implement on a hardware level, but I'll take software level rather than nothing. Also I believe nVidia haven't expressed their intentions with regards to licensing with AMD so we might see something but I won't hold my breath for it.

[afa7336]

how is that different from " it's not going to happen"? if it ever does happen, you are looking at years and years down the line.

if you click your heels three times and wish really hard, maybe your dreams will come true. Goodluck to you.

 

 

Actually, if you actually read what I wrote you would already have your answer of how it is different then "it's not going to happen." That would be the part "AT THIS TIME." You can't change what someone said, to mean something else. It doesn't work that way. At this time means, right now we have no plans. It doesn't mean it's not going to happen. I even polled 300 people last night about this, informally, that said at this time does not mean never. Twitch, gotta love it. Oh and you know how I asked it. I said, without context, if I said at this time, does that mean I won't do something?

[stevv]

However it has also been made completely clear that they would not be making it available to AMD. 

 

You make it sound like nVidia refuse to make it available to AMD, which is not the case.

 

It's more like "we haven't fully decided, at the same time it's highly unlikely AMD will come to use asking for licence".

 

 

AMD might push for a standard method, like they did with 3D. (although AMD's HD3d is a fail now because the current HDMI spec is crappy).  Get Sony and MS onboard with their consoles... and maybe intel.

 

Additionally, The TV, online video and game industry needs to make it a standard because all can benefit.  With the increase game and video resolution, variable refresh rate will help reduce bandwidth while maintaining quality.  Anyway, I digress.

 

This might turn ugly.

[stevv]

oops, double posted same reply.

[TheMissxu]

Just testing if you can or cannot delete a post.