Is the Founder's Edition REALLY that bad?

[samiscool51]

unless you are water cooling them they aren't that great because they run hotter

i have one in my rig but the reason i got it was i was going to water cool the entire thing, unfortunately i had financial trobels and i wasn't able to buy the parts

also custom water cooling part makers (e.g. EK ) don't bother with other card layouts apart from the founders edition, as it is easier to design a cooler for one and get it out for the public, some do make some for other card manufactures like EVGA but it's not common for one to appear unless the product is really popular

[lettuce head]

Its not so much that the founder's edition is bad. its more along the lines of the blower method of cooling a gpu is very limited.

a smaller fan, like the one in the founder's edition, must spin much faster to move air fast enough to cool the gpu. so it will undoubtedly be louder. 2 and 3 fan cooling solutions spin at lower rpm's and provide better coverage and larger heatpipes (providing better cooling) and therefore overclocking better. I've heard of people getting the founder's edition so that they can install waterblocks easier in the future, but other than that, as you said, blower styles in general are only for SFF. The FTW are excellent cards now that the vrm problem has been handled. between the two its no contest if you're in a big case like yours.

[Antilia0]

3 hours ago, Canonical said:

My case is an S340 with an ATX mobo and 2 cases fans, although I plan to max out my slots with two 140mm intakes and one 120mm and one 140mm for exhaust, so plenty of airflow and a decently large case. I will overclock if it provides a decent benefit, ie more than just a couple FPS. I really like the aesthetics of the FE so that's why I'm strongly considering it but if it's as bad as people say it is then I probably will just opt for a FTW. If it's only slightly hotter (<10 degrees C) or slightly slower somehow (within a few FPS) then I'll opt for an FE.

Also I'm not buying any cards till Christmas so hopefully EVGA fixes the issues with those cards by then.

I believe that EVGA have fixed the issues with the FTW cards. Also another reason to get a FE is for water cooling since most of the time it is easier to disassembly and find a water block for FE cards over other cards 

[Canonical]

Just now, Antilia0 said:

I believe that EVGA have fixed the issues with the FTW cards. Also another reason to get a FE is for water cooling since most of the time it is easier to disassembly and find a water block for FE cards over other cards 

I doubt I'll get into watercooling, I'm not quite that rich haha. I also don't really have a good case for watercooling either and it's not really a big interest of mine.

Really the only reason I am considering the FE is because of aesthetics. But the FTW looks like a fine card too.

[ARikozuM]

4 minutes ago, Canonical said:

I doubt I'll get into watercooling, I'm not quite that rich haha. I also don't really have a good case for watercooling either and it's not really a big interest of mine.

Really the only reason I am considering the FE is because of aesthetics. But the FTW looks like a fine card too.

Either card would be good, but I would suggest the FTW as I first suggested.

[Canonical]

4 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Either card would be good, but I would suggest the FTW as I first suggested.

I think I'll pick up an FE and see how I like it. If I'm not satisfied with it I'll swap it out for a FTW

[ARikozuM]

Just make sure to check EVGA's policy since I'm not certain if it applies to the FE.

http://www.evga.com/support/stepup/

 

It doesn't seem like the FTW itself is on the list, but the 1070 Gaming (stock board and clocks but the cooler is ACX 3.0) is.

 

@Canonical Give EVGA a call to find out for sure if the FE can be upgraded to a FTW.

[Canonical]

58 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Just make sure to check EVGA's policy since I'm not certain if it applies to the FE.

http://www.evga.com/support/stepup/

 

It doesn't seem like the FTW itself is on the list, but the 1070 Gaming (stock board and clocks but the cooler is ACX 3.0) is.

 

@Canonical Give EVGA a call to find out for sure if the FE can be upgraded to a FTW.

Will do, I will also check with NCIX to see if a GPU qualifies as a returnable item.

[Mick Naughty]

This is exact what I'm talking about. It runs over it rated speed, it's on YouTube ans the fans aren't being used correctly. 

 

Anyone notice in on of jay's vids how a fan takes a lot of power from the pcb, you think that gets bettter or worse adding fans?

[Space Reptile]

45 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Anyone notice in on of jay's vids how a fan takes a lot of power from the pcb, you think that gets bettter or worse adding fans?

wat?!?!? the fan take like 5 watts at best ( or rather worst )

 

jay said that MAYBE while having a card on water you get a few extra watts as there are no fans plugged in , but that's bollocks , often fans are run of a different rail completely

(usually there are lets say 6 vrm phases for core , 1 or at best 2 for memory and 1 for random stuff like I dunno , powering a onboard chip that is powering the outputs , the fans are likely on that rail )

[i_build_nanosuits]

6 hours ago, Canonical said:

Will do, I will also check with NCIX to see if a GPU qualifies as a returnable item.

it does but you'll have to pay a 15% restocking fee.

[Mick Naughty]

43 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

wat?!?!? the fan take like 5 watts at best ( or rather worst )

 

jay said that MAYBE while having a card on water you get a few extra watts as there are no fans plugged in , but that's bollocks , often fans are run of a different rail completely

(usually there are lets say 6 vrm phases for core , 1 or at best 2 for memory and 1 for random stuff like I dunno , powering a onboard chip that is powering the outputs , the fans are likely on that rail )

So you've tested the max boost of a card with the fan speeds at max and at 50%? On reference pcb stock bios on any generation card?

[Space Reptile]

1 hour ago, Mick Naughty said:

So you've tested the max boost of a card with the fan speeds at max and at 50%? On reference pcb stock bios on any generation card?

have you ? 

you would not wanna run a ref card at only 50% and still expect it to go 2200

boost relies on temp aswell , the biggest benefit and advantage water has that its alot cooler and thus can boost ALOT ,

renember , the colder the chip , the more efficient it is ( it takes less power ) 

 

(take the following maths as speculation , im not a physicist nor an engineer) 

i noticed that on a Pentium (g620) even , a chip that takes 20~25watts under full load ,

at 30c it takes 20watts and at 60c it takes almost 24watts , thats a ~20% increase in wattage 

i dont know HOW MUCH it scales to a gpu , but it shud be not much different there ,

 

take the RX480 , rated at 150watts , it can spike to 180 when overclocked

but on water its shown to drop to about 110~120watts , well 150*0,8 is just that , 120 

and on the flipside 150*1,2 is , you guessed it , 180 

 

seems like it adds up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Mick Naughty]

51 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

have you ? 

you would not wanna run a ref card at only 50% and still expect it to go 2200

boost relies on temp aswell , the biggest benefit and advantage water has that its alot cooler and thus can boost ALOT ,

renember , the colder the chip , the more efficient it is ( it takes less power ) 

 

(take the following maths as speculation , im not a physicist nor an engineer) 

i noticed that on a Pentium (g620) even , a chip that takes 20~25watts under full load ,

at 30c it takes 20watts and at 60c it takes almost 24watts , thats a ~20% increase in wattage 

i dont know HOW MUCH it scales to a gpu , but it shud be not much different there ,

 

take the RX480 , rated at 150watts , it can spike to 180 when overclocked

but on water its shown to drop to about 110~120watts , well 150*0,8 is just that , 120 

and on the flipside 150*1,2 is , you guessed it , 180 

 

seems like it adds up ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes I have, so have a higher clock speed and higher temps or lower temps and less clock speed. Didn't bother to test it much on the 9 series as the cards were bad either way. I always run sli so I'll never run open air cards again. I water cool, only way this pos 1080 is gonna boost. Until I can get a custom bios made like every card I have. Makes sense to me though but I do it first hand instead of parroting. 

[Space Reptile]

5 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Yes I have, so have a higher clock speed and higher temps or lower temps and less clock speed. Didn't bother to test it much on the 9 series as the cards were bad either way. I always run sli so I'll never run open air cards again. I water cool, only way this pos 1080 is gonna boost. Until I can get a custom bios made like every card I have. Makes sense to me though but I do it first hand instead of parroting. 

odd , the fan shud not take that much wattage , esp since the 1080 is not a card w/ a massive TDP , maybe its some driverside / software fuckery stopping the card from boosting high when the fan is bearly spinning , i dunno , usually a fan has 0.4A @ 12v at best , wich is about 5 watts , it shud not make that much of an impact 

 

again , not an engineer , but that is VERY wierd behavior , maybe as failsafe? thermal protection? does GPU boost 3.0 take fan speed into account? 

[Mick Naughty]

4 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

odd , the fan shud not take that much wattage , esp since the 1080 is not a card w/ a massive TDP , maybe its some driverside / software fuckery stopping the card from boosting high when the fan is bearly spinning , i dunno , usually a fan has 0.4A @ 12v at best , wich is about 5 watts , it shud not make that much of an impact 

 

again , not an engineer , but that is VERY wierd behavior , maybe as failsafe? thermal protection? does GPU boost 3.0 take fan speed into account? 

This is more then the 1080, 980sc's, Titan, Titan blacks, 660ti's and 550's. I'm sure plenty others do it, especially the 480s. After seeing the power draw in the benchmarks, over 20% more power draw using the fan. The 1080 strix is already gone, this evga sc isn't too far behind.  

[Space Reptile]

Just now, Mick Naughty said:

over 20% more power draw using the fan

that is impossible , a delta blower fan (like the one very ref card uses , red and green) takes 0.4 amps , and that the massive one on the 290 ref card 

the normal fans you see on like an asus strix take 0.2~0.25 amps wich is like 3 watts at best , and that is when they are on 100% ,

so a strix card running super hairdryer mode wont even break 10 watts of power for the fans 

 

 

 

[Mick Naughty]

6 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

that is impossible , a delta blower fan (like the one very ref card uses , red and green) takes 0.4 amps , and that the massive one on the 290 ref card 

the normal fans you see on like an asus strix take 0.2~0.25 amps wich is like 3 watts at best , and that is when they are on 100% ,

so a strix card running super hairdryer mode wont even break 10 watts of power for the fans 

 

 

 

Well you can watch jays video and tell my what you think then. It may have been 15%, didn't pay attention much as I don't care for red team. My cards would down clock at max fan speed even at 120% power. So it's clear that some cards just don't have it in them. 

[Space Reptile]

Just now, Mick Naughty said:

Well you can watch jays video and tell my what you think then. It may have been 15%, didn't pay attention much as I don't care for red team. My cards would down clock at max fan speed even at 120% power. So it's clear that some cards just don't have it in them. 

well what vid are you referring to ? also sucks man ,

pal of mine had a 8350 that was the litter of the sillicon lottery aswell (was literally unable to be overclocked on a good 990 FX board) , shit happens 

[Mick Naughty]

1 minute ago, Space Reptile said:

well what vid are you referring to ? also sucks man ,

pal of mine had a 8350 that was the litter of the sillicon lottery aswell (was literally unable to be overclocked on a good 990 FX board) , shit happens 

He water cools a 480 to see how it boosts and he mentions the power draw. Not sure of the title. 

[Space Reptile]

6 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

He water cools a 480 to see how it boosts and he mentions the power draw. Not sure of the title. 

ah yes saw that , he mentions that maybe the fan not being there helps ,

but it dropped from 180w to 110w , and thats more than just a fan , its an interesting topic tho ,

someone shud look into that , do some proper testing w/ a bunch of cards and so on 

[Mick Naughty]

14 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

ah yes saw that , he mentions that maybe the fan not being there helps ,

but it dropped from 180w to 110w , and thats more than just a fan , its an interesting topic tho ,

someone shud look into that , do some proper testing w/ a bunch of cards and so on 

Done quite a bit of testing, along with the whole blower vs open air. Bunch of open loop stuff too. But I don't have a YouTube following so it isn't viable. 

[ARikozuM]

12 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

Done quite a bit of testing, along with the whole blower vs open air. Bunch of open loop stuff too. But I don't have a YouTube following so it isn't viable. 

All testing done appropriately is viable and shouldn't be brushed off.