Sweden first with government supported E-currency

[ParanoidWallet]

On 11/23/2016 at 10:21 AM, That Norwegian Guy said:

Sweden isn't first yet

 

You have to actually make it first. Currently it's a race between Norway and Sweden who both posited to do it.

 

Good luck

Hehe we sure aren't, plenty of time for someone to beat us!  Would be pretty cool to see a co-operation with one currency for both countries. However the different price indexes would make that a pain. Still cool idea though to share the e-currency. In my opinion.

On 11/23/2016 at 11:05 AM, TheReal1980 said:

Thank GOD I will be leaving Sweden soon. My country has turned to shit, you can't feel safe anywhere and now they want the currency to be digital, amazing. As much as you think digital currency is good, it is a form of control of the individual and whenever you pay it leaves a trace. It is a fantastic tool for the corrupt Government of Sweden to use though, I give em that. To potentially stop an individual from sending or receiving money will be the new norm, if you don't think or do as the State we basically just shut down your account.

Sweden hurt itself in it's confusion.

On 11/23/2016 at 11:35 AM, MrDynamicMan said:

Sweden really just seems to be early adopters with no idea of what they're going to do with the new tech. 

Sort of agreeing with you. However usually I think we're quite slow with a lot of things + Sweden is a priority to 0 companies based out of Sweden. Still haven't heard anyone that uses "Apple pay" here (just one example of things we don't get, early at lest).

On 11/23/2016 at 11:53 AM, Thony said:

I dont understand what it is with eastern Europe countries caling their currencies "crowns" (Czech Republic ad Slovakia are some of them). 

 

I like this idea because its so freaking futuristic ! Very exciting for someone born in 90s. Not so much for teenagers I guess, its the different world nowadays.

 

Sweeden seems to have great mentality when it comes to environment. Getting a rid of physical currency would only add to it. 

 

Shame sweden is not closer to Spain, I would move there if it wasnt a northern country

The crown thing is weird lol. Exciting yes. The environmental aspect of it, don't really think that's a big piece of it. Sure, it's far better than printing out new notes every day, but still. Wonder how big difference it actually makes. You don't like the cold?

On 11/23/2016 at 0:21 PM, Dabombinable said:

Sweden is where bad ideas get first tested, than abandoned......like gender based snowplowing.

Pretty much agreeing. Couldn't we get cool ideas instead? 

10 hours ago, DXMember said:

what's wrong with credit cards?

Nothing! I like them!

14 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Can we please stop with this push towards cashless societies? It's an all around terrible idea.

Would you mind to explain it further?

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, Sniperfox47 said:

A physical item and a conceptual item are no different though, they are both just items to trade. Isn't that the whole basis of the IP debate? You may not be giving me something you physically possess, but you are giving me something you conceptually possess. And the idea that the concept you lent me has value, gives it value, which I can use to trade for other things.

 

An idea is fundamentally no different in barter than a physical thing.

Actually, yes, it is fundamentally different. That's why IP is not normal P, and why copyright laws exist: because ideas are not covered by standard theft laws. They can't, simply because they are not physical objects. There is no much of a debate really, just Metallica spreading fallacies back in the Napster days, and the real world  

The technical word is "rivalry": rival goods entail a positive marginal cost for each additional consumer (e.g., a loaf of bead), while for non-rival goods the marginal cost is zero (e.g., street lights). Public goods are typically non-rival (having lights on your street cost the same whether 1 person or 1000 walk through it at night), and so are "ideas": it may be costly to come up with an idea, but once it's there, using it has zero additional cost. That leads to a competitive price of 0, which means it's impossible to provide free market incentives to produce "ideas". Copyright is one of the imperfect ways we came up with to provide economic incentives by deviating from competitive markets: it consists on a monopoly over a rival good granted to whoever registers an idea linked to it (e.g., you write a song, you get a monopoly over recordings of said song over a particular time period. The true cost to society of creating a copy is the cost of a CD, or just zero in our digital era, so we need a monopoly to charge above zero prices). And this is why we need a fundamentally different law for it: rival goods can be stolen, non-rival goods can't. But you can infringe the legal monopoly granted by copyright laws by producing copies of something without authorization. A baker needs no such monopoly to face economic incentives to produce bread. It's not the same at all.

 

No, returning to money: lending of physical goods is limited by the existence of said goods. If I have a shovel, I can lend it to you, but if my neighbor comes asking for it, there is no way I can give it to him as well. He can dig with my words.

Purely non-tangible assets, on the other hand, can be lent in excess of what anyone has. I can write a paper saying I give you 10 dollars, another for my neighbor, and so son. You can all go around paying other with that paper as long as they take it, and it only costs me a little ink. The people in possession of those papers may one day come and ask for the $10, and I won't be able to give them unless you all paid me back. That's exactly how our banking system works: I deposit 10$ in my account. The bank gives you a loan for $10, theoretically "my $10". But then I go to a store and buy a product for $10 using my debit card... and it works. They don't tell me "sorry, your money has been lent". Hence, we started with my $10, but now both you and I can spend $10, so a total of $20. Secondary money creation is based precisely on the fundamental difference between tangible objects and non-tangible ideas.

[Wolther]

Does anyone have a good read on what gives e-currency its value?

I do not exactly understand how that kind of thing works without a physical thing representing it  

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, ParanoidWallet said:

Hehe we sure aren't, plenty of time for someone to beat us!  Would be pretty cool to see a co-operation with one currency for both countries. However the different price indexes would make that a pain. Still cool idea though to share the e-currency. In my opinion.

Sweden hurt itself in it's confusion.

Sort of agreeing with you. However usually I think we're quite slow with a lot of things + Sweden is a priority to 0 companies based out of Sweden. Still haven't heard anyone that uses "Apple pay" here (just one example of things we don't get, early at lest).

The crown thing is weird lol. Exciting yes. The environmental aspect of it, don't really think that's a big piece of it. Sure, it's far better than printing out new notes every day, but still. Wonder how big difference it actually makes. You don't like the cold?

Pretty much agreeing. Couldn't we get cool ideas instead? 

Nothing! I like them!

Would you mind to explain it further?

A cashless economy is a horrible idea for several reasons. Primary of which is the complete and utter lack of privacy resulting from the government being able to track (and thus tax) your every single purchase.

Not to mention the resulting chaos if the powers at be fuck up, devalue the fuck out of said currency, and you have no alternative to use.

[Doobeedoo]

I just wonder will there be/when will there be time when we will all have 1 global e-currency.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

3 hours ago, Wolther said:

Does anyone have a good read on what gives e-currency its value?

I do not exactly understand how that kind of thing works without a physical thing representing it  

The babysitting co-op story I linked above is a good reading on how means of exchange don't need to have an intrinsic value. The key is you expect others to give value to it, so you value it as well. This is often summarized as "money is held, because money is held" (meaning you use money because you count on others using it as well). If I try to pay you with, let's say, Serbian Dinars in the US, you probably won't take it, because what are you going to do with it? Some foreign exchange agencies may take it, but you won't bother with that. You don't expect American shops to accept Dinars, so you don't accept them yourself. However, if we were in Belgrade, where every shop will take the local currency, you would also accept Dinars without much problems.

Not having bills and coins doesn't change things much, since dollars, euros, etc, are as ethereal es e-currencies in that sense. 

 

I'm trying to think of a non-technical piece, like the one on the co-op, explaining this particular idea, but I haven't come up with one yet. However, if you're good with advanced math, this would be an example of the concept explained inside a simple model.

[Coaxialgamer]

On 11/22/2016 at 4:53 PM, suicidalfranco said:

should just use btc

Bitcoin isn't viable long term. 

[Wolther]

2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

The babysitting co-op story I linked above is a good reading on how means of exchange don't need to have an intrinsic value. The key is you expect others to give value to it, so you value it as well. This is often summarized as "money is held, because money is held" (meaning you use money because you count on others using it as well). If I try to pay you with, let's say, Serbian Dinars in the US, you probably won't take it, because what are you going to do with it? Some foreign exchange agencies may take it, but you won't bother with that. You don't expect American shops to accept Dinars, so you don't accept them yourself. However, if we were in Belgrade, where every shop will take the local currency, you would also accept Dinars without much problems.

Not having bills and coins doesn't change things much, since dollars, euros, etc, are as ethereal es e-currencies in that sense. 

 

I'm trying to think of a non-technical piece, like the one on the co-op, explaining this particular idea, but I haven't come up with one yet. However, if you're good with advanced math, this would be an example of the concept explained inside a simple model.

Thanks for the interpretation I'll take a look at that link in a little bit