Networking job after community college? Saving $$ for flight school.

[Phil9943]

Someone could probably make an argument for this being in off-topic, but off topic specifically says "non-tech only". Don't have a seizure, there's not that much technology in this but please, bear with me.

 

 

 

I'm thinking about going to a community college and getting an IT major bachelor's degree. From there I'm thinking about becoming an entry level network specialist and earning enough money to eventually go to a flight school.

 

While yes, computers and networking are a hobby of mine, I really would like to become an airline pilot in the future. IT jobs can be stressful and draining, although flying over an ocean for hours on end is one of the most relaxing and satisfying jobs one could hold for the salary it pays. If I follow all the way through, I can make over $200,000 a year. Breakdown of that below.

 

Most of the rest of this post is info for all of you that may 

 

So then you might ask "well, if you don't really want to pursue networking, why not just go to a flight school straight out of college". Well, it's much more complicated than that.

Detailed explanation of why, or interesting info if you are curious about aviation:

Spoiler

First off, many major airliners won't even consider you as a candidate if you do not have a four year degree (from my understanding, this can be in any field from any accredited school, the airliners don't care). This is non-negotiable to practically all airlines, at least all of the ones that you'll find in any airport. Secondly, in order to become a pilot, one must acquire a series of licenses in order to fly, including:

Private Pilot's License (PPL, allows you to fly small, recreational aircraft for personal transport, cannot fly for money) ~ $10K

Instrument pilot rating (allows you to fly through clouds and mid-severe whether should your plane permit) ~ $7K

Commercial Pilot License (CPL, allows you to charge money for your piloting services, teaches you more skills with the aircraft and will teach greater mastery of control of your plane) ~ $11K

Multi-Engine Rating (allows you to fly somewhat larger planes that can have two or more engines) ~ $5K

At this point you are required to log 1500 hours of total flight time due to FAA requirements. This cannot be done by flying for an airline (you haven't gotten hired or a license for that yet) and you must either fly elsewhere (ex. Skydiver plane pilot) or become a flight instructor. You must do this for 1500 hours (about 2-3 years of work) before you can pursue your next rating

Airline Transport Pilot License (ATPL, allows you to fly larger planes for major airlines, teaches you complete mastery of all aspects of flying): Costs sometimes covered by your future employer, but if it isn't this can cost upwards of $8K

All of these cost estimates are without rental of planes included, this and other random expenses here and there will probably make the final pricetag about $75,000.

In case you don't want to read all that, in short all of the education I would need to become an airline pilot is about $75,000

The only reason why I'm considering community college is because I will likely be working for very little pay for the first few years after this pilot education investment. I don't know if I'll be able to pay student loans from a big name college and take on flight training at the same time.

 

For a detailed breakdown of my future pay, read this:

Spoiler

Basically, if you want to make big bucks as a pilot, you'll need to climb a ladder to get there.

Your first job as a pilot after you get your ATP will most likely be as a copilot of a regional airliner (you know, those small airliners that you book if you're only flying for like two hours from New York to Detroit). I'll take numbers from Envoy Airlines, a small regional airliner owned by American Airlines. Envoy is one of the primary feeders into American Airlines, and is probably the fastest way to land a job flying for American.

Copilot Pay:

Year 1: $34,200

Year 2: $36,000

Year 3: $36,900

At this, point you can become a captain (primary pilot) for Envoy before becoming a copilot for American

Year 1: $61,200

Year 2: $63,000

At this point you can now become a copilot for American Airlines, it will take about 15 years to become a captain (primary pilot). For this example, I'll be flying a A321, a relatively airplane used to carry medium amounts of people over oceans. I could make up to 20% more on a bigger airplane that I'd be equally qualified to fly. This is just for a low end pay estimate

Year 1: $69,300

Year 2: $104,400

Year 3: $122,400

Year 4: $125,100

Year 5: $127,800

Year 6: $131,400

Year 7: $137,700

Year 8: $139,500

Year 9: $141,300

Year 10: $143,100

Year 11+: $144,000

At this point I'd become a pilot for American

Year 1: $193,500

Year 2: $194,400

Year 3: $196,200

Year 4: $198,000

Year 5: $199,800

Year 6: $201,600

Year 7: $202,500

Year 8: $204,300

Year 9: $206,100

Year 10: $207,900

Year 11: $209,700

Year 12+: $211,500

Over $210,000. Yo.

If I reach the top of the ladder (not as hard compared to other jobs), I can make over $211,000 a year. Yeah. That's a thing.

 

The only problem is getting there.

 

If I go to a big name school like the University of Virginia (local for me, I think I have the grades to get into this one too), I'll be paying about $60,000 out of college. If I go to a local community college, take NOVA (Northern Virginia community college), I'll be paying about $20,000. My final question is : Will it matter if I go to community college or a big name school to get a base level networking/programming job that pays ~$35,000-40,000 a year? Thank you to any and all people that actually read through all of this. To those of you curious in aviation, I hope I taught you something new.

[Guest]

Read reviews and benchmark of schools \s (ok maybe not)

 

Look up some surveys that they do, for example in Toronto/Ontario region there is this thing called KPI (Key Performance Indicator) where they ask students loads of questions and make it into survey (are you happy with the college? how much graduates got a job in their field? did the teaching good?) and so on. Not every state/city do this though. 

 

Look up their courses too and their professor to see if they are worth/good or not.

 

I mean for programming you can learn it at home. There are tons of materials to research online. Sure a school will give you a degree so you can be easily employed in the field but if the school's teaching did not fit you then stackexchange or some at LTT might help you.

 

 

[Guest Kloaked]

"Will it matter if I go to community college or a big name school to get a base level networking/programming job that pays ~$50,000 a year?"

 

Depends on who your potential employers are and possibly how well they know you. I went to a two year technical college for what they call "Computer Support Technician", which is their retarded way of saying "IT Specialist" or something like that. Each semester was about $2k give or take, which includes books and other expenses. Because it was so cheap, I don't have any debt which is amazing. I ended up getting hired locally as a junior-level application developer, even though all of my current certifications are Windows OS/networking/security related.

 

My direct boss told me directly that he doesn't care about my education, just as long as I can do the work. If I can do the work, I'm good to go - whereas one of the previous web developers they used to have was all about certifications in this and that. If that guy was my boss, I certainly wouldn't have been hired or even considered in the way that I did. My boss passed up two people with more programming experience than I, yet I got hired for the position mostly because they knew who I was and they figure they can show me the ropes anyways since I have a good understanding of what the hell I'm doing.

 

I've been here over three months now and I'm pretty solidified here. I'm not making no $50k a year though. Realistically I could be making close to that if I worked somewhere else, but this place gave me a chance on my lack of education so I'm staying put - mostly because I get treated like a human being, but also because I actually like going to work in the morning.

 

Maybe you'll figure out exactly what you want. I can tell you straight up not to expect a ton of money for your first job in these fields unless you just absolutely excel at what you do or the company is so big that what they pay you is just pennies to them anyways. You'll figure it out. Just remember to have realistic expectations. Having your head in the clouds is good sometimes, but still keep a realistic expectation.

[Phil9943]

2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

"Will it matter if I go to community college or a big name school to get a base level networking/programming job that pays ~$50,000 a year?"

 

Depends on who your potential employers are and possibly how well they know you. I went to a two year technical college for what they call "Computer Support Technician", which is their retarded way of saying "IT Specialist" or something like that. Each semester was about $2k give or take, which includes books and other expenses. Because it was so cheap, I don't have any debt which is amazing. I ended up getting hired locally as a junior-level application developer, even though all of my current certifications are Windows OS/networking/security related.

 

My direct boss told me directly that he doesn't care about my education, just as long as I can do the work. If I can do the work, I'm good to go - whereas one of the previous web developers they used to have was all about certifications in this and that. If that guy was my boss, I certainly wouldn't have been hired or even considered in the way that I did. My boss passed up two people with more programming experience than I, yet I got hired for the position mostly because they knew who I was and they figure they can show me the ropes anyways since I have a good understanding of what the hell I'm doing.

 

I've been here over three months now and I'm pretty solidified here. I'm not making no $50k a year though. Realistically I could be making close to that if I worked somewhere else, but this place gave me a chance on my lack of education so I'm staying put - mostly because I get treated like a human being, but also because I actually like going to work in the morning.

 

Maybe you'll figure out exactly what you want. I can tell you straight up not to expect a ton of money for your first job in these fields unless you just absolutely excel at what you do or the company is so big that what they pay you is just pennies to them anyways. You'll figure it out. Just remember to have realistic expectations. Having your head in the clouds is good sometimes, but still keep a realistic expectation.

Okay I'll edit the $50k fig from earlier and change it to a more reasonable 35-40k

[Clyne]

CCNA is a minimum $60,000 salary per year, and it increases if you go on to take CCNP, CCIE.

You'll get a certification if you complete CCNA, but it's not related to what school you'll take.

Taking CCNA at a community school is fine as it would save you money, it's usually spread out over a course of 2 years but I'm currently taking CCNA that's just for a year(5 days a week, 2 hours each day).

Here's how Cisco's networking thing goes...

I didn't start at CCENT, I'd started at CCNA. 

Here's a salary chart, but it shows the max allowed earnings...

Some employers may require a degree as one of their critiques, but it's not like the school that you go to can decide if you can get a certification/job. 

[SCHISCHKA]

thousand of people graduate every year from IT related courses and there are only so many jobs. A good example is people who work a telco call centres; they over qualified and are all competing for the technician places. Your best bet is to avoid college and get an apprenticeship. There was a student pilot who worked for a relative of mine. He was a qualified fitter turner, he earned good money, and he paid for his flight school in a few years.

[Guest Kloaked]

2 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

CCNA is a minimum $60,000 salary per year

It's not. The people we source for our networking needs don't make that, and I have friends who work at telecoms who don't make anything close to that and they have their certs.

 

It's all about who you work for and where.

[SCHISCHKA]

6 minutes ago, Phil9943 said:

I get treated like a human being

you are living 'the dream'. it doesn't matter what you earn, the important thing is being treated with respect

[Clyne]

Just now, Kloaked said:

It's not. The people we source for our networking needs don't make that, and I have friends who work at telecoms who don't make anything close to that and they have their certs.

 

It's all about who you work for and where.

It's what Cisco officially says, but it can change depending where you work.

[Guest Kloaked]

Just now, Bubblewhale said:

It's what Cisco officially says, but it can change depending where you work.

That's probably an estimation or something based on certain areas where the cost of living is more, which would make way more sense if that's the case. Average salaries will change depending on where you are.

[Guest Kloaked]

4 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

you are living 'the dream'. it doesn't matter what you earn, the important thing is being treated with respect

This guy gets it.

[Phil9943]

9 minutes ago, Bubblewhale said:

CCNA is a minimum $60,000 salary per year, and it increases if you go on to take CCNP, CCIE.

You'll get a certification if you complete CCNA, but it's not related to what school you'll take.

Taking CCNA at a community school is fine as it would save you money, it's usually spread out over a course of 2 years but I'm currently taking CCNA that's just for a year(5 days a week, 2 hours each day).

Here's how Cisco's networking thing goes...

I didn't start at CCENT, I'd started at CCNA. 

Here's a salary chart, but it shows the max allowed earnings...

Some employers may require a degree as one of their critiques, but it's not like the school that you go to can decide if you can get a certification/job. 

These graphs and the associates' info are both really helpful, thanks.

[Phil9943]

7 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

thousand of people graduate every year from IT related courses and there are only so many jobs. A good example is people who work a telco call centres; they over qualified and are all competing for the technician places. Your best bet is to avoid college and get an apprenticeship. There was a student pilot who worked for a relative of mine. He was a qualified fitter turner, he earned good money, and he paid for his flight school in a few years.

He might have paid for his flight school, but I really don't think he went on to any giant airliners. It's basically an unwritten rule that you need a four year degree to get anywhere near a 737 cockpit.

[SCHISCHKA]

2 minutes ago, Phil9943 said:

He might have paid for his flight school, but I really don't think he went on to any giant airliners. It's basically an unwritten rule that you need a four year degree to get anywhere near a 737 cockpit.

I dont know where he ended up but I'm pretty sure he became a fully qualified pilot. He came from Germany because NZ was cheaper and easier place to get a pilot qualifications. He worked shifts in an engineering firm when the Americas cup was in town so he was in the right place at the right time to work as an engineer

[dizmo]

I don't mean to burst your bubble or anything, but have you looked into the other aspects of getting your pilots licence?

It costs huge amounts of money to rent and fly aircraft, for example. In order to maintain your licence, you have to have a certain number of flight hours per month. You'll likely be looking much closer to $100,000+ when all is said and done.

I worked with a guy who was a pilot for Delta, and he said when you first start out it's hell. Horrible accommodations, hard to advance, etc. FWIW he moved to Canada, and it took him 4 years to land a job as a pilot. It's not a cakewalk by any means. 

 

Do you have any interest in medical related fields? That's what I'd be looking into if you have to get a 4 year degree. Construction would also be another good choice, as you can also work as you learn.

The tech industry is constantly changing, and in many ways shrinking. As one of my friends who's in the field puts it "if this stuff worked the way it should work, there's really little need for me at all."

 

Looking at your numbers alone I'd say go with the community college option. It'll take you many, many years to pay of a $60,000 student loan and then to save up for the flight training. As for the schooling itself, as others have said when it comes to technical jobs like that it's often what you can prove you know more than where you took it. Certificates are good as it shows you know the related topics, but may or may not help. Unfortunately no degree guarantees a job, aside from perhaps the medical field. I have a friend who spend over a year and a half unemployed after she finished her Masters.

 

I would take a good hard look at the different aspects of what you want to undertake.

It seems like you're good at planning. Make a spreadsheet. Figure out how long it'd take you to pay off a $20,000 student loan, taking into account all the other expenses in life. Figure out how much it'll cost in instructor, plane rental fees (figure about $165/hr with instructor), everything like that. Then decide if it's worth investing that much time into.

 

If being a pilot were as easy as 1-2-3, everyone would do it

 

2 hours ago, Kloaked said:

I've been here over three months now and I'm pretty solidified here. I'm not making no $50k a year though. Realistically I could be making close to that if I worked somewhere else, but this place gave me a chance on my lack of education so I'm staying put - mostly because I get treated like a human being, but also because I actually like going to work in the morning.

So many people overlook this in life. I'd say it's far more important than having a high paying job.