Headphones, DAC/Amp, or What?

[theninja35]

Hi. It's Christmas season already and my parents are on the prowl for gifts. They have told me that they are shopping early this year and I can only assume that means they want to shop on the Black Friday deals and get it over with before the rush begins.

 

Anyway, I was wondering if I should get a new pair of headphones, a DAC/Amp, or nothing at all. Currently I am running on some DT 990s (which I don't even know if they're real, they're the Blacked Out ones on Amazon) and am using my motherboard's audio. So, is that an adequate setup or should I tack on a Schiit DAC and AMP, or maybe get a new pair of headphones? If I do get one or the other, I think under $300 is the price range. I can go a little bit above but I would like some other things too for Christmas :P. 

 

If you have an opinion please let me know, and if you have any recommendations if you choose the headphones path please let me know. I would like open-backed unless there is something with great quality that is closed. Thanks.

[FloRolf]

Well, do you really want new headphones? Are you not satisfied with the DT990? Are you searching for a different sound signature?

 

[theninja35]

9 minutes ago, FloRolf said:

Well, do you really want new headphones? Are you not satisfied with the DT990? Are you searching for a different sound signature?

I guess I just don't feel like they live up to what I thought they would. Everyone was like, "Oh my God they're revolutionary," but I just don't feel the same way. Maybe it's because they were not using onboard audio and I am or maybe it's just their perception or what they started at.

 

I like bass and I feel like the DT990s have nice bass so if I did get new headphones I wouldn't want that to change. I like it to have a little bit of punch and have it where you can almost feel the bass in your ears, but maybe that's not something I can get yet (on some songs I can!) They're comfortable, so I don't want that to change, I like how big the earcups are and how soft the cloth pads feel.

[FloRolf]

3 minutes ago, theninja35 said:

I guess I just don't feel like they live up to what I thought they would. Everyone was like, "Oh my God they're revolutionary," but I just don't feel the same way. Maybe it's because they were not using onboard audio and I am or maybe it's just their perception or what they started at.

 

I like bass and I feel like the DT990s have nice bass so if I did get new headphones I wouldn't want that to change. I like it to have a little bit of punch and have it where you can almost feel the bass in your ears, but maybe that's not something I can get yet (on some songs I can!) They're comfortable, so I don't want that to change, I like how big the earcups are and how soft the cloth pads feel.

mh okay...

In that case i have good news for you.

Tomorrow the drop for the HD6XX starts on massdrop. They are $199 and thats an EPIC price (they are HD650 actually) and they should be more like what you want.

That leaves you with $100 you can spend on a Magni 2 and save some more to get a Modi 2 later on. Or both used for 100, i dunno.

 

But the HD650 really like Tube Amps on the other hand but oh well....

[theninja35]

1 minute ago, FloRolf said:

mh okay...

In that case i have good news for you.

Tomorrow the drop for the HD6XX starts on massdrop. They are $199 and thats an EPIC price (they are HD650 actually) and they should be more like what you want.

That leaves you with $100 you can spend on a Magni 2 and save some more to get a Modi 2 later on. Or both used for 100, i dunno.

 

But the HD650 really like Tube Amps on the other hand but oh well....

That is phenomenal news.

 

Wow that is awesome.

 

If I get them, will I need to buy a DAC and Amp straight away or can I use them without it? If I can use them straight away then I could save up for a Tube Amp instead of getting something cheaper.

[FloRolf]

Just now, theninja35 said:

That is phenomenal news.

 

Wow that is awesome.

 

If I get them, will I need to buy a DAC and Amp straight away or can I use them without it? If I can use them straight away then I could save up for a Tube Amp instead of getting something cheaper.

well, you can use them without anything just like you do with the DT990 right now. 

But these cans definitely like power and as i heard they scale pretty much infinitly lol.

Meaning a better setup will give you better sound all the way up.

 

I'm not sure how load they get without a decent amp though so you'd have to figure that out yourself and then either get a cheaper amp like the magni directly or see if you

can wait some more for a Tube Amp, which either need a DAC aswell or you use your onboard but with that kind of setup i'd go for a dac aswell.

[theninja35]

8 minutes ago, FloRolf said:

well, you can use them without anything just like you do with the DT990 right now. 

But these cans definitely like power and as i heard they scale pretty much infinitly lol.

Meaning a better setup will give you better sound all the way up.

 

I'm not sure how load they get without a decent amp though so you'd have to figure that out yourself and then either get a cheaper amp like the magni directly or see if you

can wait some more for a Tube Amp, which either need a DAC aswell or you use your onboard but with that kind of setup i'd go for a dac aswell.

What about a Valhalla 2 and a Modi 2? The Valhalla 2 is a Tube Amp it looks like and is $349 while the Modi 2 is a $99 DAC. 

 

Or should I not cheap out on a DAC?

[FloRolf]

8 minutes ago, theninja35 said:

What about a Valhalla 2 and a Modi 2? The Valhalla 2 is a Tube Amp it looks like and is $349 while the Modi 2 is a $99 DAC. 

 

Or should I not cheap out on a DAC?

Sure, both are great products. They don't stack though, as the Modi 2 is "lower class" which is smaller.

 

[theninja35]

Just now, FloRolf said:

Sure, both are great products. They don't stack though, as the Modi 2 is "lower class" which is smaller.

That's not a big deal, as long as they are functional and I don't need to buy anything else I can have them side-by-side. Thank you for your help and recommendation!

[theninja35]

Sorry to bother you again @FloRolf, but I was looking at a few reviews and comparisons and the HD650s don't seem to be well thought of anymore. It looks like people prefer the DT990s over the HD650s in everything but comfort. I'm not sure why, the HD650s seem to be very well rated but many people say the DT990s and HD650s are of equal quality. 

 

Do you think I should go for another pair instead? I was looking at your signature and the HE-400i looks like a good pair, albeit at $400, but I can probably perform some persuasion and get them. Or do you think I should go for the Valhalla 2 and Modi 2 instead of new headphones?

[theninja35]

2 hours ago, FloRolf said:

Sure, both are great products. They don't stack though, as the Modi 2 is "lower class" which is smaller.

Okay so now I'm getting upset reading all this stuff about the DT990s and HD650s.

 

If the 650s won't be a crazy improvement without an amp then I am going to just get the Valhalla 2 and a Modi 2 just in-case. I will then not be buying the HD650s.

 

HOWEVER, what really makes me upset is that everyone is saying an amp really improves the quality of the 990s but then they recommend some cheap-af EiiO Amp/DAC that I don't think would do anything. So this makes me very unhappy and then leads me to question the 990s again.

 

Please help me, this is stressing me out more than it should.

[SSL]

3 hours ago, theninja35 said:

Okay so now I'm getting upset reading all this stuff about the DT990s and HD650s.

 

If the 650s won't be a crazy improvement without an amp then I am going to just get the Valhalla 2 and a Modi 2 just in-case. I will then not be buying the HD650s.

 

HOWEVER, what really makes me upset is that everyone is saying an amp really improves the quality of the 990s but then they recommend some cheap-af EiiO Amp/DAC that I don't think would do anything. So this makes me very unhappy and then leads me to question the 990s again.

 

Please help me, this is stressing me out more than it should.

 

I can tell you that cheap crap like Fiio is not going to do much to improve the sound of the DT 990 or any other headphone. Let's make that perfectly clear.

 

On to the HD 650. Most people who know these headphones will will tell you that they need a substantial amp to sound their best. Something like the Schiit Valhalla 2 or Jotenheim. That's obviously out of your budget.

 

I think you need to figure out what you want from a headphone if the DT 990 does not have you satisfied. Yes, it could be that an amp would improve matters, but in my experience getting a Schiit stack didn't take my DT 880 to the next level. The headphone just doesn't scale well enough.

[Pomfinator]

7 hours ago, theninja35 said:

If the 650s won't be a crazy improvement without an amp then I am going to just get the Valhalla 2 and a Modi 2 just in-case. I will then not be buying the HD650s.

In my experience, buying a more expensive solid state will not dramatically improve the HD650.  For example, my Asgard 2 is better than my O2 for it, but it's not some night-day difference, and sometimes I don't even think the improvement is worth the heat the Asgard makes.  I still don't have much experience with tubes so I can't help you there.  From user testimony, the HD650 seems to like tube amps particularly well, but it can get by with solid-state just fine.  Nothing is going to change how pleasant that headphone sounds.

[Lays]

1 hour ago, Pomfinator said:

In my experience, buying a more expensive solid state will not dramatically improve the HD650.  For example, my Asgard 2 is better than my O2 for it, but it's not some night-day difference, and sometimes I don't even think the improvement is worth the heat the Asgard makes.  I still don't have much experience with tubes so I can't help you there.  From user testimony, the HD650 seems to like tube amps particularly well, but it can get by with solid-state just fine.  Nothing is going to change how pleasant that headphone sounds.

In my experience going from a Magni 2 to an Asgard 2 it wasn't a night and day difference, but it definitely was a noticeable one.  It seemed as if the far edge of the soundstage got slightly bigger, and for sure it had more low end "oomph"  This is with HD800 though, maybe 650 react differently who knows. The O2 is quite a bright amp from what I remember when I owned one a while back, so the Asgard 2 should definitely add more heft on the bottom end.

[theninja35]

6 hours ago, SSL said:

I can tell you that cheap crap like Fiio is not going to do much to improve the sound of the DT 990 or any other headphone. Let's make that perfectly clear.

 

On to the HD 650. Most people who know these headphones will will tell you that they need a substantial amp to sound their best. Something like the Schiit Valhalla 2 or Jotenheim. That's obviously out of your budget.

 

I think you need to figure out what you want from a headphone if the DT 990 does not have you satisfied. Yes, it could be that an amp would improve matters, but in my experience getting a Schiit stack didn't take my DT 880 to the next level. The headphone just doesn't scale well enough.

The DT990s just didn't sound like what I expected. The highs were not annoying and the lows were not particularly heavy like people said they would be, but maybe that's just me. The quality isn't the greatest either, I didn't really notice a significant improvement from my old Razers. But again, maybe that's just me.

 

If the DT990s will be much greater and sound a lot better with a tube amp then I will get that as opposed to the HD650s. But if the HD650s sound great and get much much better than the DT990s with a tube amp then I will get the HD650s and later get a tube amp. The problem I'm having is deciding which one to get.

[SSL]

6 hours ago, theninja35 said:

The DT990s just didn't sound like what I expected. The highs were not annoying and the lows were not particularly heavy like people said they would be, but maybe that's just me. The quality isn't the greatest either, I didn't really notice a significant improvement from my old Razers. But again, maybe that's just me.

 

If the DT990s will be much greater and sound a lot better with a tube amp then I will get that as opposed to the HD650s. But if the HD650s sound great and get much much better than the DT990s with a tube amp then I will get the HD650s and later get a tube amp. The problem I'm having is deciding which one to get.

 

If you're willing to invest $300-400 down the line, get the HD6XX if you can. 10,000+ people have requested the drop so it may be just as easy to find a good used HD650 once the dust has settled from the drop.

 

My recommendations for amp would be the Valhalla 2 or Jotunheim. You can see a comparison of the relative merits of the amps here: Schiit Amp Compendium: What Schiit amp should I get? But the difference boils down the the Valhalla having slightly better soundstage and detail, while the Jotunheim will be better in everything else.

 

A good budget option would be the Schiit Vali 2. It's hard to beat for the price.

[theninja35]

2 hours ago, SSL said:

If you're willing to invest $300-400 down the line, get the HD6XX if you can. 10,000+ people have requested the drop so it may be just as easy to find a good used HD650 once the dust has settled from the drop.

 

My recommendations for amp would be the Valhalla 2 or Jotunheim. You can see a comparison of the relative merits of the amps here: Schiit Amp Compendium: What Schiit amp should I get? But the difference boils down the the Valhalla having slightly better soundstage and detail, while the Jotunheim will be better in everything else.

 

A good budget option would be the Schiit Vali 2. It's hard to beat for the price.

Okay, just one more question. Is there a reason to get the HD6XX or HD650s? Do they sound better than the DT990s or will they once I get an Amp? They look awesome but I'm still not sure.

[SSL]

2 hours ago, theninja35 said:

Okay, just one more question. Is there a reason to get the HD6XX or HD650s? Do they sound better than the DT990s or will they once I get an Amp? They look awesome but I'm still not sure.

 

Probably, but you haven't explained what kind of sound you like, so I can't answer that question unequivocally.

[theninja35]

1 minute ago, SSL said:

Probably, but you haven't explained what kind of sound you like, so I can't answer that question unequivocally.

Sorry, I thought it was somewhere in the thread.

 

Clean and crisp all around would be nice, but a more prominent and punchy bass is preferred. 

 

However, I think I'm going to just go with a nice Amp and DAC instead. I've decided that I don't need a new pair and although the HD6XX's look really nice, I have a nice pair already and I would benefit more from an Amp and DAC.