Screens Tears in all games I play. Do I have a bottle neck?

[RQNinja]

Hello, I been using this PC for a while and upgraded to a GTX 960 graphics card. I am like having nothing but screen tears even if I have adaptive Vsync on and I am kind of worried if I may have a bottleneck or something. Changing cables didnt help. Changing monitors didnt help. Using a different graphics card sometimes does that. I am so lost right now. And I believe my BIOS is the latest as well. Any other details please help.

 

Specs:Operating System
    Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1
CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K @ 3.50GHz 
    Ivy Bridge 22nm Technology
RAM
    16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 672MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
    Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd. Z77MX-D3H (Intel Core i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz)
Graphics
    BenQ RL2455 (1920x1080@60Hz)
    4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 (MSI) 
Storage
    238GB SanDisk SDSSDHP256G (SSD) 
    1863GB Seagate ST2000DM001-9YN164 (SATA) 
Optical Drives
    HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH24NS90

[xDanielxOossiex]

No bottleneck for sure, might be not enough fps feeding the screen.

[RQNinja]

Please help me find this fix please.

[pcnoob99]

Have you tried to lower the settings? 

 

[RQNinja]

Yes for some reason regardless of fps. weather it is less than 60fps or more, i seem to get tearing.

[Naeaes]

9 minutes ago, RQNinja said:

Please help me find this fix please.

Don't use adaptive V-sync. You do know adaptive turns V-sync off if your framerates drop low? Which is when you get tearing. So any time your GPU can't push the full 60FPS, it'll start tearing and judging by your GPU, you're not above 60FPS very often, are you? 

Instead turn on full V-sync and adjust your game settings so that you're guaranteed to stay above 60FPS. That's as close as you're gonna get to getting rid of tearing with that setup.

[Mello]

Go to (Nvidia control panel > change resolution) and make sure you have 60hz refresh rate.

[Andrew Sh]

Make sure you Nvidia control panel is at 60hz (or different if your screen is different)
Also, turn on normal vsync. That sorts most screen tearing, especially if you go over 60 fps because dips can cause it.

 

[Nord]

First thing you do is to go nvidia.com and download your graphicscard driver again.

Second thing you google "display driver uninstaller" (DDU) and download it.

Third thing you restart your PC, boot into safemode and run DDU, let it remove all drivers it can find, reboot again (either normal windows or safemode again, does not matter anymore) and install the nvidia driver you previously downloaded.

 

If you still have screentearing after that, even with 60HZ set in nvidia control panel on the monitor and VSync enabled:

in what games exactly?

does it happen on the deskop / browser aswell? (scrolling throu a long text article for example should show it on either word or FF/Chrome/IE etc.)

how did you connect the monitor to the GPU? D-sub? HDMI? DVI?

when you run fraps in any of the games you do have tearing, how many FPS does it read when the tearing happens?

[RQNinja]

10 hours ago, Mello said:

Go to (Nvidia control panel > change resolution) and make sure you have 60hz refresh rate.

its already at 60hz. so thats fine
 

8 hours ago, Nord said:

First thing you do is to go nvidia.com and download your graphicscard driver again.

Second thing you google "display driver uninstaller" (DDU) and download it.

Third thing you restart your PC, boot into safemode and run DDU, let it remove all drivers it can find, reboot again (either normal windows or safemode again, does not matter anymore) and install the nvidia driver you previously downloaded.

I have already done that yesterday and today again just incase and installed firmware 362.00 since people say its the most stable

Quote

If you still have screentearing after that, even with 60HZ set in nvidia control panel on the monitor and VSync enabled:

in what games exactly?

does it happen on the deskop / browser aswell? (scrolling throu a long text article for example should show it on either word or FF/Chrome/IE etc.)

how did you connect the monitor to the GPU? D-sub? HDMI? DVI?

when you run fraps in any of the games you do have tearing, how many FPS does it read when the tearing happens?

I get minor tears in street fighter v when camera pans around around a cinematic.

Red Alert Yuri when u move the cursor around the map when u travel around

Guild Wars 2 when you pan.

overwatch when you pan.

 

for browsers scrolling and youtube ~ it is fine.

 

Everything in games seems ok when vsync is on but i havent test it to its full extent for every game

With it there is no vsync, desktop and browsers are ok, but only in games there are tears in low and high fps.

I am kinda thinking if it is ok to rma the card since it is still under warranty? or ask an expert to fix the pc? or those steps are a bit too extreme

And thanks for the advice everyone, sorry i havent tagged everyone but have read all your advices.

[Nord]

19 minutes ago, RQNinja said:

Everything seems ok when vsync is on but i havent test it to its full extent for every game

With it there is no vsync . yhere are tears in low and high fps.

Thats totaly normal unless you have a G-Sync or Free-Sync monitor, once you exceed the refresh rate, in your case 60FPS, of the monitor you will get screen tear as frames will overlap.

Either you play with VSync enabled and dont have screen tear or you play with uncapped FPS and have screentear. This of course is not true for all games, but speaking for the majority this is how it works.

Overwatch is knowen for screen tearing, Red Alert Yuri is from 2001, back then we didnt even have LCD/TFT screens so screentear was non existant. Guild wars IDK and street fighter v: ima just say 25% positive recent and 50% positive overall on steam with the main foucs on the game installing rootkits on your system, yay.

 

 

Obviously there are alternatives to normal Vsync, like Nvidia's "fast" vsync option, which "only" works with DirectX games but basically it lets you run uncapped fps while canceling out screentear as it will "throw away" all frames over your monitors refresh rate before sending it. Personaly I use that vsync option wherever possible.

 

Second option would be to just cap your FPS w/o using Vsync. Rivertuner can do this, it comes with MSI afterburner.

 

You could ofc RMA the card but im like 99% certain the next one you get will have the exact same "issues", especially if its the same or another 9xx series one, as screen tearfrom what I know is driver (or rather software) releated.

[RQNinja]

6 hours ago, Nord said:

Thats totaly normal unless you have a G-Sync or Free-Sync monitor, once you exceed the refresh rate, in your case 60FPS, of the monitor you will get screen tear as frames will overlap.

So my Benq rl2455hm and rl2450 are not neither g-or-free-sync monitors. therefore I have no choice but to use vsync? 

Quote

Either you play with VSync enabled and dont have screen tear or you play with uncapped FPS and have screentear. This of course is not true for all games, but speaking for the majority this is how it works.

What if the only reason I dont like vsync is the amount of display lag(or is it possibly the increase input lag) from my games?

Quote

Overwatch is knowen for screen tearing, Red Alert Yuri is from 2001, back then we didnt even have LCD/TFT screens so screentear was non existant.

 

Yeah i dont know have in RA Yuri, I just move my mouse to a side of the screen to move the map, and there are a few tears. :<

Same thing in my game called Life is Strange. Nothing but tears all over when I spin the game camera, but I didnt have a fps checker on that time.

Quote

Guild wars IDK and street fighter v: ima just say 25% positive recent and 50% positive overall on steam with the main foucs on the game installing rootkits on your system, yay.

 

 

Obviously there are alternatives to normal Vsync, like Nvidia's "fast" vsync option, which "only" works with DirectX games but basically it lets you run uncapped fps while canceling out screentear as it will "throw away" all frames over your monitors refresh rate before sending it. Personaly I use that vsync option wherever possible.

 

Second option would be to just cap your FPS w/o using Vsync. Rivertuner can do this, it comes with MSI afterburner.

 

You could ofc RMA the card but im like 99% certain the next one you get will have the exact same "issues", especially if its the same or another 9xx series one, as screen tearfrom what I know is driver (or rather software) releated.

So I guess it is not hardware related at all? Some people i know suspect that. but I am sadly not sure which is true?

 

[Nord]

2 hours ago, RQNinja said:

So my Benq rl2455hm and rl2450 are not neither g-or-free-sync monitors. therefore I have no choice but to use vsync? 

Pretty much, yes.

 

2 hours ago, RQNinja said:

What if the only reason I dont like vsync is the amount of display lag(or is it possibly the increase input lag) from my games?

I'll quote a good explaination from reddit here for what vsync really does:
" Vsync allows for the game to receive your input, but purposely delays the display of said input. So in simpler terms, Mega Man's already jumped. You just didn't see it until Vsync was ready to let you see it." - Oafah

 

Anyhow, how much or few impact normal VSync has is depending on the game. On some you literally dont notice it, on others you do very well.

BUT there is not only a single VSync option, if you visit your Nvidia control panel you can choose between: Fast, Adaptive, Adaptive (half) Vsync aswell as the "tripple buffering" option. You even can set the maximum amount of pre-rendered frames.

 

tripple buffering is explained here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2794/2

 

and for the rest of the vsync options, I'll quote from reddit again:

 

"V-SYNC - Framerate synced with monitor refresh rate (no tearing, input lag, increasing input lag as framerate lowers since)

V-SYNC OFF - Framerate un-synced (tearing, very little input lag)

Adaptive Sync - At high framerates, VSync is enabled to eliminate tearing. At low frame rates, it's disabled to minimise stuttering. (input lag at high frame rates, tearing at low frame rates)

FAST-SYNC - De-coupled rendering and monitor refresh. VSYNC OFF but the monitor will only render completely rendered frames, thus eliminating tearing (MINOR input lag but NO TEARING! ) also it is monitor agnostic so it will work with any screen. It is analogous to hardware triple buffering but does not back-pressure the render pipeline.

It is a clever solution to the problem and requires very little overhead there should be no performance hit. It can still be used with G-SYNC for those that have systems that struggle to maintain FPS > refresh rate." - PiggeryJokery

 

and adaptive (half) is basically 30FPS, so dont bother with that one.

 

Or you simply use rivertuner or something of the likes to just cap your FPS to 60, which might just do the trick.

 

You will have to test for each game seperately what works the best. Personaly I use vsync-fast and cap the FPS to 70 via rivertuner, works almost always with good results.

 

2 hours ago, RQNinja said:

So I guess it is not hardware related at all? Some people i know suspect that. but I am sadly not sure which is true?

Tecnically it is hardware releated, the problem is your monitor - but it can be software-solved.

A faulty GPU can do lots of things, but causing screentearing would be a first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing

 

But as always in computing, nothing is 100%.

IF you are still using a D-sub cable, switch to HDMI or DVI input, that might also help though.

 

Edit: btw tearing at below 60FPS is also normal, its just less obvious because less frames are rendered and hence less "overlapping" of said frames can happen.

 

[RQNinja]

2 hours ago, Nord said:

 

I'll quote a good explaination from reddit here for what vsync really does:
" Vsync allows for the game to receive your input, but purposely delays the display of said input. So in simpler terms, Mega Man's already jumped. You just didn't see it until Vsync was ready to let you see it." - Oafah

 

Anyhow, how much or few impact normal VSync has is depending on the game. On some you literally dont notice it, on others you do very well.

BUT there is not only a single VSync option, if you visit your Nvidia control panel you can choose between: Fast, Adaptive, Adaptive (half) Vsync aswell as the "tripple buffering" option. You even can set the maximum amount of pre-rendered frames.

 

tripple buffering is explained here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2794/2

 

and for the rest of the vsync options, I'll quote from reddit again:

 

"V-SYNC - Framerate synced with monitor refresh rate (no tearing, input lag, increasing input lag as framerate lowers since)

V-SYNC OFF - Framerate un-synced (tearing, very little input lag)

Adaptive Sync - At high framerates, VSync is enabled to eliminate tearing. At low frame rates, it's disabled to minimise stuttering. (input lag at high frame rates, tearing at low frame rates)

FAST-SYNC - De-coupled rendering and monitor refresh. VSYNC OFF but the monitor will only render completely rendered frames, thus eliminating tearing (MINOR input lag but NO TEARING! ) also it is monitor agnostic so it will work with any screen. It is analogous to hardware triple buffering but does not back-pressure the render pipeline.

It is a clever solution to the problem and requires very little overhead there should be no performance hit. It can still be used with G-SYNC for those that have systems that struggle to maintain FPS > refresh rate." - PiggeryJokery

 

and adaptive (half) is basically 30FPS, so dont bother with that one.

 

Or you simply use rivertuner or something of the likes to just cap your FPS to 60, which might just do the trick.

In other words, this is performing as a fps limiter?

2 hours ago, Nord said:

 

You will have to test for each game seperately what works the best. Personaly I use vsync-fast and cap the FPS to 70 via rivertuner, works almost always with good results.

 

Tecnically it is hardware releated, the problem is your monitor - but it can be software-solved.

A faulty GPU can do lots of things, but causing screentearing would be a first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing

 

But as always in computing, nothing is 100%.

IF you are still using a D-sub cable, switch to HDMI or DVI input, that might also help though.

Using DVI. Stopped using hdmi because it caused more tearing so i think that is related to how old the wire is.

2 hours ago, Nord said:

 

Edit: btw tearing at below 60FPS is also normal, its just less obvious because less frames are rendered and hence less "overlapping" of said frames can happen.

 

Computer displays are so complicated

So from my assumption of some games, I have less than 60fps so i just have to tone down the graphic settings, but keep the resolution, to increase the fps and reduce tearing, but games like.. overwatch and cs and garys mod and street fighter i think most times the fps is higher or in street fighters case sometimes lower.. so i guess have vsync on.?

[RQNinja]

17 hours ago, Mello said:

Go to (Nvidia control panel > change resolution) and make sure you have 60hz refresh rate.

 

17 hours ago, pcnoob99 said:

Have you tried to lower the settings? 

 

 

17 hours ago, Naeaes said:

Don't use adaptive V-sync. You do know adaptive turns V-sync off if your framerates drop low? Which is when you get tearing. So any time your GPU can't push the full 60FPS, it'll start tearing and judging by your GPU, you're not above 60FPS very often, are you? 

Instead turn on full V-sync and adjust your game settings so that you're guaranteed to stay above 60FPS. That's as close as you're gonna get to getting rid of tearing with that setup.

As in just the graphic settings and/or change resolution to increase fps?

[Nord]

36 minutes ago, RQNinja said:

In other words, this is performing as a fps limiter?

Yes, Vsync will always limit to the refresh rate of the monitor AND block tearing.
While rivertuner would just limit the FPS - which would only block tearing as long as you are able to stay at 60FPS.

 

38 minutes ago, RQNinja said:

Using DVI. Stopped using hdmi because it caused more tearing so i think that is related to how old the wire is.

DVI should not cause additional tearing so thats something to rule out -  with HDMI it could indeed be the age of the wire, or rather the "version", as there are several different HDMI versions available.

 

39 minutes ago, RQNinja said:

So from my assumption of some games, I have less than 60fps so i just have to tone down the graphic settings, but keep the resolution, to increase the fps and reduce tearing, but games like.. overwatch and cs and garys mod and street fighter i think most times the fps is higher or in street fighters case sometimes lower.. so i guess have vsync on.?

Its not always quite that simple but yes, if you fall below 60FPS sometimes stepping back either resolution or graphic settings will get you closer to 60FPS again in almost all cases. But honestly once you fall below 45FPS you might aswell consider use Vsync instead of fiddling with the graphic settings, the difference in input lagg is pretty much countered by frametime MS increase at that point, and you aint going to MLG or anything with fps drops

 

For when you go above 60FPS, you need to cap the FPS yes - higher FPS = more visible screentear. Just try the different vsync options available and see what bothers you the least, after a while you will get used to it and enjoy tear free gaming again.

 

[RQNinja]

So in the end. 

 

<60 fps  + vsync = tears?

 

and 

 

>60fps + vsync = input lag and tears (few) ?

[Nord]

<60FPS +vsync = no tears and, depending on how much you are below 60FPS, you will most probably not notice the delay vsync creates.

 

There is no >60FPS with Vsync on a 60HZ monitor. Once you activate Vsync you aint going to get more than 60FPS ever (unless you use fast-sync*).

You will have a may or may not noticable delay from when you send a command to when you see it, its always depending on the game how long that delay will be.

Screentearing will be eliminated entirely, both when at 60, below 60 or if you use fast-sync, even above 60.

 

If I were you I'd just enable "vsync option: fast" in Nvidia controlpanel for all applications and try with that. Fast Sync is a rather new technologie that would leave your FPS uncapped but eliminate screentear at the same time while not adding as much "input lagg" as normal VSync. The decreased input lagg is a claim rather than a fact, I have not exactly seen it proven anywhere yet but be it true or not, it most certainly is still the best option for people who just dont like vsync in general.

[Mello]

Still not solved?

Maybe try triple buffering.

[RQNinja]

On 11/10/2016 at 11:51 PM, Nord said:

If you still have screentearing after that, even with 60HZ set in nvidia control panel on the monitor and VSync enabled:

in what games exactly?

does it happen on the deskop / browser aswell? (scrolling throu a long text article for example should show it on either word or FF/Chrome/IE etc.)

Days after uninstall using safe windows mode and a fresh install, yesterday I think i may have discovered a minor case of tearing on scrolling through browsers with vsync off, or my eyes are playing up on me. but youtube videos arent affected, but I know I had that problem before i made the fresh install not anymore.

Quote

how did you connect the monitor to the GPU? D-sub? HDMI? DVI?

when you run fraps in any of the games you do have tearing, how many FPS does it read when the tearing happens?

testing things around i used shadowplay, I believe the tearing only happened that the start of games, less than 60 fps so i did reduce my settings to hopefully increase fps. chuck in vsync and it seems ok.

 

 

EDIT AGAIN:   IT HAPPENS on the deskop / browser aswell ESPECIALLY WHEN I AM USING FACEBOOK ON CHROME (I believe i save horizontal tear when i got vsnyc on{

 

why!!! its like my graphic card is doing weird things everytime i turn on the computer OMGGGGGG

 
 was clicking around the vsync options in control panel and i dont think i have a fast vsync option.

20 hours ago, Mello said:

Still not solved?

Maybe try triple buffering.

As in per game? I might try that.

[RQNinja]

I was wondering. Do you guys think I would need to install a monitor driver. as in drivers of my benq rl2455hm display (like the ones that came from a CD) ? if there is that is

[RQNinja]

This is sad, I tried so many things from changing cables and things. I dont have a fast vsync setting. just a yes and no. nothing works. I am pretty sad right now

[Nord]

Update your GPU driver, at the very least 372.90 included the fast sync option.

However not all games support different kind of VSync, some are bound to On/Off & Tripple buffering, those are usually very old or shitty games to start with though, either engine wise or just in general.