Windows 7 VS Windows 10

[roblesaturcamilo]

Alright guys, so i've been thinking a lot about W10 lately and there is always someone complaining about a bug here, a compatibility issue there and updates failures over there...

 

So, i'm just saying, is there a good reason why people choose W10 over W7 ?

 

I mean, forget about W8/W8.1 we all know that nobody likes it, but is there a good reason to leave W7 behind and "upgrade/update" to W10?

 

I have W7 myself, by the way and a beefy pc too...

[deleted_member_030719]

Less resource usage, faster boot time, etc.

 

There are some super-cool features like: Microsoft collects everything you do! It's like the NSA, except even more privacy invading.

[Nena Trinity]

DX12 and the Windows 10 + ONE exclusives, other than that not much...

[AresKrieger]

Dx12 is the only good argument I've seen as the other features are not essential just potential nice to haves (if you like them but I don't so...)

 

BTW I was against windows 10 and still am, their anniversary update was crap

[RileyTheFox]

The only good thing for gamers (if you are one) that was brought in Windows 10 is DX12. Spying is an issue though in W10 so if you like your privacy and/or are picky, stay with W7. People always say they have bugs with Windows 10 but personally, I've never had an issue. I had 1 BSOD a few weeks ago (my first ever BSOD) but it was due to a buggy driver and USB in my Webcam, Windows diagnosed it quickly. One more problem, it will force you to update. You cannot just say you don't want it.

 

The choice is yours. Your computer, your decision.

[AresKrieger]

7 minutes ago, Jed M said:

 

Less resource usage

 

That isn't entirely true due to things like cortana being defaulted to on, also the faster boot times are a thing that was on 8 though it is a difference between 7 and 10 thought I'd mention it

 

4 minutes ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

Windows Defender is a hell lot better

It's just a retooled microsoft security essentials, which you can get on windows 7

[RileyTheFox]

2 minutes ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

Spying isn't really an issue, the NSA, your ISP, a bunch of intragovernmental organizations and probably a million other people are going to get their hands all over your data anyways, what's another set of digits, eh?

Exactly what I said one day. There's companies doing it all the time, so why moan now? Earlier today I said to my Dad "I'm not bothered if Win 10 spies on me. I have nothing bad to hide anyways."

[RileyTheFox]

1 minute ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

At least, not from cold mass data collection. There's some stuff I wouldn't want some people knowing....

（＾ω＾）

[meenmeen1103]

Just now, EvilCat70 said:

Exactly what I said. There's companies doing it all the time, so why moan now? Earlier today I said to my Dad "I'm not bothered if Win 10 spies on me. I have nothing bad to hide anyways."

Yeah, I've stopped dealing online ever since I went from 7 to 10, you just don't talk about sensitive things like carrying out illegal drug distribution and you'll be o.....hold on, someone's at my door

[roblesaturcamilo]

1 minute ago, Jed M said:

Less resource usage, faster boot time, etc.

 

There are some super-cool features like: Microsoft collects everything you do! It's like the NSA, except even more privacy invading.

Nowadays we have al least 8gb of ram, so that's not an issue right?

My ram usage at this moment is 2,7gb with 3 tabs on chrome and steam in the background... 

 

My boot-time is 10/15 seconds with my laptop and 7/10 seconds with my pc...

I don't think that 2/3 seconds less is gonna be a game changer either?

1 minute ago, AresKrieger said:

Dx12 is the only good argument I've seen as the other features are not essential just potential nice to haves (if you like them but I don't so...)

DX12 VS DX11 is like 3/5 fps difference in most realworld cases right?

1 minute ago, Nena360 said:

DX12 and the Windows 10 + ONE exclusives, other than that not much...

ONE exclusives? like XBOX ONE titles?

Tell me one game that i can play on W10 that i can't play on W7...

 

No offence, it's just that i don't know about any title that's exclusive for W10...

[AresKrieger]

Just now, roblesaturcamilo said:

DX12 VS DX11 is like 3/5 fps difference in most realworld cases right?

That isn't the problem, the issue lies with the fact eventually their will be games that are dx12 exclusive ie effectively windows 10 exclusive, though if a lot of people refuse to go to windows 10 or revert back due to issues with 10 then devs will not alienate potential customers.

[AresKrieger]

4 minutes ago, roblesaturcamilo said:

Tell me one game that i can play on W10 that i can't play on W7...

 

No offence, it's just that i don't know about any title that's exclusive for W10...

Forza

[RileyTheFox]

13 minutes ago, roblesaturcamilo said:

Nowadays we have al least 8gb of ram, so that's not an issue right?

My ram usage at this moment is 2,7gb with 3 tabs on chrome and steam in the background... 

 

My boot-time is 10/15 seconds with my laptop and 7/10 seconds with my pc...

I don't think that 2/3 seconds less is gonna be a game changer either?

DX12 VS DX11 is like 3/5 fps difference in most realworld cases right?

ONE exclusives? like XBOX ONE titles?

Tell me one game that i can play on W10 that i can't play on W7...

 

No offence, it's just that i don't know about any title that's exclusive for W10...

Minecraft Windows 10 Edition (^-^)

[roblesaturcamilo]

7 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Forza

i'm sure that there is a lot of people that will like this game, but i'm not one of those... however i understand your point now, in the near future there will be more and more games w10 exclusive, as well as many others that will still be w7 compatible then... that's a point for W10...

[AresKrieger]

1 minute ago, EvilCat70 said:

Minecraft Windows 10 Edition (^-^)

It's the same as pocket edition

[AresKrieger]

1 minute ago, roblesaturcamilo said:

i'm sure that there is a lot of people that will like this game, but i'm not one of those... however i understand your point now, in the near future there will be more and more games w10 exclusive, as well as many others that will still be w7 compatible then... that's a point for W10...

It is though I'm still holding out, it's not necessary to change until you have a game you can't play that you want now is it?

[roblesaturcamilo]

26 minutes ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

Also, Windows 7 home only allows for a max of 16 GB of RAM, Windows 10's max is astronomically high. That's why I upgraded myself

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bits is 192gb though...

 

And by the way 16gb of ram it's more than enough for a couple years... And i have 32gb on my pc... LOL

[SageOfSpice]

W7 is pretty great.

 

I'd moved to W10 because I wanted to see what they had changed, but honestly, It's still the same core.

 

More crapware, less privacy, higher resource usage, better resource management, less control, worse compatibility, worse reliability, obligatory features, extremely unintuitive GUI both in implementation and user interaction, ect. Overall, W10 is probably a downgrade.

 

The only reason they've made it worth it is because, "Security" and, "Gaming".

I don't like it, really. Just think of it as W7 privileged edition.

 

If I have to reinstall W10 one more time because it cripples itself irreversibly, then I'll probably just go back to 7. Maybe dual boot linux or something, always wanted to try it.

[Delicieuxz]

After using Windows 10 as my primary OS for many months, I realized that I wouldn't miss anything about it if I went back to Windows 7. And since I found that everything was more difficult, more frustrating, more ugly, and more time-consuming on Windows 10, I went back to Windows 7 as my primary OS. Windows 10 made the detail of just having an OS a chore and liability all on its own, whereas Windows 7 is just passively there, like an OS should be, and just works, for whatever I decide to do, without any of the barriers, talk-back, and convolution of Windows 10.
 
 
General Windows 7, Windows 10 user experience comparison:
 
These are many of the reasons why I found Windows 7 to be a much more sophisticated, smartly-designed, and user-friendly OS than Windows 10:
 
Windows 7 has a more useful and efficient start-menu design, that takes up less screen space, and requires less mouse travel distance to get to what you want. Pinning applications to a space-efficient list directly above the start button is a lot more space-smart, and functionally-useful than the live-tiles design in Windows 10.
 
Windows 7 has an intelligent Windows Update set of choices, whereas in Windows 10, unless you edit Group Policies, you have basically no choice. The choice to defer updates is not useful, since deferring them still causes the same ambiguous and random update process to automatically occur, just a couple of months later. There isn't even a choice for how long to defer them.
 
Customizing file-associations in Windows 7 is straight-forward, while in Windows 10 it can be a repeating arm-wrestle with the OS, as sometimes Win 10 resets the file associations you've changed, and sometimes the ability to change file-associations "bugs," and it doesn't let it be changed, or doesn't list the application you want and doesn't provide any means to add the application you want to use to the list (such as to use Chrome to open URLs from offline, non-browser text).
 
Windows 10's UI isn't very aesthetic to many people, and Windows 7's UI feels a lot more comfortable to me. Windows 10's UI can be changed to some extent, using things like Startisback, and Aero Glass.
 
Windows 10's data-collection is invasive, and it isn't straight-forward to turn it off. Microsoft has made effort to spread the settings for various aspects of data-collection in many different places, to make it challenging for a person to find them all and disable them all. And extra efforts may be required to put a more thorough stop to MS' collection of your data, such as those described in the link in my signature. Don't presume that just because you turned off telemetry and data-collection during the Win 10 installation process that you got it all. You'll find more data-collection settings in individual MS apps that need turning off in them after the OS has completed installation.
 
Windows 10 has so far tended to often require users to redo their OS customization work with new big updates, which can have the magical ability to reset things back to the way MS wants them to be. For that reason, and because of data-collection, and because of file-association challenges, Windows 10 is not a user-friendly OS. It's a for-Microsoft OS, that a user might have to struggle with quite a bit to get the way they want, and to keep it the way they want. It's rather abusive, in this.
 
In Windows 10, there are in-OS ads, which is something Windows 7 doesn't have. Does anyone want to see advertisement in their personal space? I don't.
 
In Windows 10, Windows Defender is a nuisance, unless it is permanently disables in Group Policy Editor, and all system warning notifications are disabled (otherwise Windows 10 will constantly bother the user to re-enable Windows Defender).
 
Windows 10 has bugs, and fixes some but gains others with new versions. Windows 7 doesn't (that I've encountered since its release).
 
Microsoft uses Windows 10 to pester users about whatever random thing they want to happen: http://www.theverge.com/2016/8/3/12369326/microsoft-windows-10-chrome-battery-life-notifications
 
I feel that the best thing I found about Windows 10 is that, after setting everything up the way that I'd like it, it functions pretty much like Windows 7, with the only differences being worse on Windows 10 than in Windows 7. But since it takes more work to set up than Windows 7, and since it takes work to keep Windows 10 set up the way I want it to be (since Microsoft seems to cause people's Windows 10 configurations to reset arbitrarily), I can't see why I would go with the OS that takes ongoing work to be good, rather than the OS that is simply good from the start.
 
 
 
Gaming and Application-wise:

 

There are no tangible performance differences between Windows 7 and Windows 10 in non DirectX 12 games and applications. While I haven't looked at benchmarks on the subject in a long time, last I saw, some games will perform better in one Windows OS compared to another, but, on average, across a large selection of games, Windows 7, 8, and 10 all perform within ~1 FPS of each other, with the two overall fastest Windows OSes being Windows 8, then Windows 7, with Windows 10 coming in last for performance in non DX12 games.
 
Windows 7 is a more stable and reliable OS in general, and won't interfere with your online gaming with data-syncing for whatever MS app wants to do that, or by automatically downloading updates that you didn't want downloaded, and couldn't change the settings to prevent the downloading of.
 
Windows 7 doesn't have directX 12, but it does have Vulkan, which accomplishes the same low-level hardware communication that improves application performance, and Windows 7 in Vulkan is just as good as Windows 10 in DX12.
 
Compatibility-wise, Windows 7 has better support for a larger amount of games, having been the main gaming OS for a very long time. Because of this, Windows 7 also has a lot more community guides, fixes, and other materials to get games to run on it, than does any other OS.
 
Windows 10 has a lot of problems right now, and Microsoft, with their new QA strategy (having laid off most of their testing engineers), isn't able to stay on top of them. I would avoid Windows 10 just for that reason. But there are other issues with Windows 10 that make it not the most sound OS for gaming, whatever a person is looking to do with it.

 

 

Full post:

 

[Delicieuxz]

1 hour ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

Windows Defender is a hell lot better, but drivers can be a real problem (The anniversary update broke bloody webcams for a while). It isn't free anymore though

Also, Windows 7 home only allows for a max of 16 GB of RAM, Windows 10's max is astronomically high. That's why I upgraded myself

Windows 7 Home Premium handles a maximum of 16 GB of RAM, but Professional, Ultimate, and Enterprise all handle up to 192 GB. Windows 10 Home also has limited RAM capability, though it's much higher: 128 GB for Home, and 2048 GB for all other editions.

 

1 hour ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

Spying isn't really an issue, the NSA, your ISP, a bunch of intragovernmental organizations and probably a million other people are going to get their hands all over your data anyways, what's another set of digits, eh?

 

There's a big difference between companies collecting data when you choose to use their online services, and specifically choose to transmit data, versus what Microsoft is doing in offline Windows 10, which is constantly collecting data that a user doesn't choose to submit across online services, and which the collection of is not relevant to online services. When I input information into an online service through my web browser, I am obviously authorizing the transmission of that data, and for a personal purpose. But Windows 10 collects data without users using online services, without authorizing it, and without it being for specific purposes which the user chooses.

 

What Microsoft is doing is not comparable, and is a deeper level of data collection.

 

1 hour ago, EvilCat70 said:

Exactly what I said one day. There's companies doing it all the time, so why moan now? Earlier today I said to my Dad "I'm not bothered if Win 10 spies on me. I have nothing bad to hide anyways."

Once you submit your personal information to the judgement of others, whether you have something to hide, or not, is no longer for you to decide. Also, your attitude is surrendering your right to privacy and control over your personal information, to a corporation, as if you have to prove to them that you're good, with them being the judge of whether you're good. You're essentially lessening your status as a person, and defining yourself as the property of others, and your person as a subject to their interests.

 

It isn't a strength to say "I'm not bothered if Win 10 spies on me. I have nothing bad to hide anyways," but a naive weakness that puts you at the mercy of others, whose purpose is to exploit your information as much as possible. Every police officer would love to use the argument that if a person has nothing to hide, then they would reveal everything that the officer wants to see... but that thinking flies in the face of personal rights, and equality: If a person is guardian of themselves, then there's no reason why they have to reveal anything they haven't chosen to. And if a person's information is being revealed outside of their control, then they are the subject and slave of whoever is controlling the release of their information, and they are of lesser stature than whoever is controlling their information.

[kirashi]

2 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

There's a big difference between companies collecting data when you choose to use their online services, and specifically choose to transmit data, versus what Microsoft is doing in offline Windows 10, which is constantly collecting data that a user doesn't choose to submit across online services, and which the collection of is not relevant to online services. When I input information into an online service through my web browser, I am obviously authorizing the transmission of that data, and for a personal purpose. But Windows 10 collects data without users using online services, without authorizing it, and without it being for specific purposes which the user chooses.

While I don't really stand on either side of the whole telemetry fence issue, I will have to say that user do indeed authorize collection of this data when installing the OS because they've accepted the EULA. Whether EULA's are fully enforceable in court or not, and to what extent, is another story, but my point is that by installing any software, you've already agreed to its' terms and conditions, similar to your analogy of visiting a website.

 

If you don't like the idea of a website collecting tracking data or whatever, you simply leave the site and never visit it again - same goes for an operating system: you remove the OS and don't use it again. No one's forcing you to use Windows or macOS; it's just that your software might only be available on Windows or macOS. I'm looking at you, Adobe. >.<

[Delicieuxz]

4 minutes ago, kirashi said:

If you don't like the idea of a website collecting tracking data or whatever, you simply leave the site and never visit it again - same goes for an operating system: you remove the OS and don't use it again. No one's forcing you to use Windows or macOS; it's just that your software might only be available on Windows or macOS. I'm looking at you, Adobe. >.<

Well, Microsoft actually has forced millions of PCs to install Windows 10. And, many of the people who own those PCs don't know how to switch back to their previous OS, or don't have the time, or want to spend the effort to. Microsoft's forced updates took something from those people that Microsoft shouldn't have, and people shouldn't have to undergo effort to get what Microsoft took back.

 

But, if a person doesn't want to send information across a network, or have it collected, then they should simply have the option to not have their information be collected. With websites, it's as simple as not using their features that specifically rely on information transmission. With Windows 10, it isn't that simple.

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, roblesaturcamilo said:

Alright guys, so i've been thinking a lot about W10 lately and there is always someone complaining about a bug here, a compatibility issue there and updates failures over there...

 

So, i'm just saying, is there a good reason why people choose W10 over W7 ?

 

I mean, forget about W8/W8.1 we all know that nobody likes it, but is there a good reason to leave W7 behind and "upgrade/update" to W10?

 

I have W7 myself, by the way and a beefy pc too...

Because in 2020 Windows 7 will no longer get security updates. Windows 10 will be here for a long time. Plus, I think Skylake is only supported on WIndows 10. 

[kirashi]

24 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Well, Microsoft actually has forced millions of PCs to install Windows 10. And, many of the people who own those PCs don't know how to switch back to their previous OS, or don't have the time, or want to spend the effort to. Microsoft's forced updates took something from those people that Microsoft shouldn't have, and people shouldn't have to undergo effort to get what Microsoft took back.

 

But, if a person doesn't want to send information across a network, or have it collected, then they should simply have the option to not have their information be collected. With websites, it's as simple as not using their features that specifically rely on information transmission. With Windows 10, it isn't that simple.

You bring up a valid point, and as a technician, I wholeheartedly agree. The problem here lies in users ability to understand what everything you said means. In my opinion, Microsoft failed to explain in detail just how the upgrade process would work, and to what extent updates would be forced upon its' users. I'm not raising my pitchfork just yet though. I simply believe there should have been a lot more transparency through the entire process. In fact, I believe there should be transparency and input in regards to all technology, hardware and software, since users can provide manufacturers with better input on their products than any QA team or Study Group ever could.

 

The thing is, most users either don't have the time, ability, or care to understand just how deeply OS license agreements permit the software Manufacturer to go in regards to automated updates and data collection. Users should have been given a better explanation about the upgrade process, and they should be given a way to opt out of all data collection and upgrades. Unfortunately, unless the users raise enough of a stink about it, and completely stop using Windows, nothing will change. And as I've said, most users don't put any effort into raising their concerns, other than bitching and complaining about them.

 

I saw it first hand working at an electronics retailer for 5 years. When Windows 8/8.1, and eventually 10 came out, we had multitudes of disgruntled customers asking about sticking with Windows 7, or how much it would cost to switch to Mac, or even about "this Linux thing" occasionally. Most had valid arguments as to why they didn't want Windows 8/10, but in the end most only wanted to bitch about it, and none showed any interest in paying more for a macOS system, or actualy learning about Linux.

 

As a technician, this was (and is) great, because something something job security something something pay me to tell you how Windows 10 works.

Don't like it? OK, pay me to show you how to switch your business to macOS or Linux.

Oh, you don't have enough time/money/aptitude? Well, that's unfortunate. Guess it's Windows 10 for you after all.

I probably sound like an arrogant rip-off of a technician, but that's far from the truth. I like to think I'm just a cynical realist when it comes to tech, and believe users should always know what they're getting themselves into with a purchase.

 

I loathe proprietary anything in technology, and I loath to show enthusiasm about the latest greatest tech without first researching and explaining both the pros and cons it may bring.

But I also tolerate it, to a certain extent. I used to run Ubuntu on my 15" MacBook Air, but then I needed to run the Adobe Suite for work purposes, and so had to switch back to Windows for this purpose. I still run Windows on my desktop, simply because game support just isn't there yet on Linux. I even own an iPad, with all the proprietary Apple requirements that come with it. It's about making technology work for you, instead of fighting it.

 

Buying and using technology should be treated the same as buying a house - you put time and effort into buying a house the works for you and your family, lifestyle, and commute to work. You get it inspected, you ask about property taxes, upkeep costs, how noisy the neighbors are. You wonder why the previous owner doesn't have keys to the storm cellar in the back corner of the property that stinks like human flesh, and up until recently was recently buried under shrubs. I believe people should know the functionality and limitations of their technology, and either be willing to live with them or pay more money for a different solution. Or even better: teach themselves how to develop their own solution to solve their own problems.

[SageOfSpice]

9 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

-snip-

 

I totally agree about the file extension associations. That's a good point to make. On most of the computers I've installed this on, the file associations in the W10 settings menu either outright refuse to change, or it causes explorer to crash. The only way to change file associations is to use the old utility that was in W7. I actually think that's a fair point about most of the UI changes that W10 offers. The Shell Experience Host is very glitchy, and there exist no tools that can be used without that platform. Without the Shell Experience Host, you don't even have simple functionality such as a calculator or the calendar. It feels like they ripped out the functionality of W7 to hot glue in some overly complicated mess. Why do I need two separate settings menus in the first place?