Finding the new 'Perfect' Gaming/CS:GO Mouse?

[slifrocith]

5 hours ago, Hunched said:

You should post here more often, I wish I could give you more informative points for being the only correct post in this topic.

Only 4 posts and more useful than anyone else in here.

Rocket Jump Ninja is good, everyone should check him out if they're looking for a competitive FPS mouse.

Thanks for the feedback, I greatly appreciate it  and yeah Rocket Jump Ninja is amazing.

[lukesterboy]

9 hours ago, slifrocith said:

I'm currently using the Zowie EC2-A and it's the best mouse I've ever used (for CS:GO at least). I've also had a Logitech G502 and a Razer DeathAdder Chroma, the G502 was way too heavy even without the weights and the Chroma was too big for my hands. Sure there's a couple of drawbacks if you get an EC2-A as you'll have to give up on RGB, decent scroll wheel / side buttons but other than that it's great. The sensor is top notch, mouse is lightweight and the cable is soft rubber so the mouse cable doesn't drag as much on your mousepad. You also get an extra set of mouse feet in the box. If you're still undecided, I'd check Rocket Jump Ninja's YouTube channel, he does in-depth reviews on mice and other peripherals.

 

PS: Zowie's mouse bungee, the Camade, is amazing. It's expensive but it is quality stuff.

 

Yeh, this is what I've heard about the G502, even without weights it ways a lot more than a Deathadder or most other mouses. Yeh, i'm not to fussed about RGB since my keyboard isn't RGB as for the scroll will I guess I will miss it but I will survive since I use numbers for switching weapons in CS. Ok well thanks, I'll be sure to check out his channel to help me decide. This is the kind of posts I need people that have had experience with all these mice I'm looking at! What kind of sens and dpi and rank are you in cs:go?

[slifrocith]

7 minutes ago, lukesterboy said:

Yeh, this is what I've heard about the G502, even without weights it ways a lot more than a Deathadder or most other mouses. Yeh, i'm not to fussed about RGB since my keyboard isn't RGB as for the scroll will I guess I will miss it but I will survive since I use numbers for switching weapons in CS. Ok well thanks, I'll be sure to check out his channel to help me decide. This is the kind of posts I need people that have had experience with all these mice I'm looking at! What kind of sens and dpi and rank are you in cs:go?

I missed the G502 scroll wheel the first couple hours / days but I got over it. I'm playing at 400 dpi, 1000Hz polling rate, 2.4 sensitivity and 0.9 zoom sensitivity. My matchmaking rank is Legendary Eagle / Legendary Eagle Master and on ESEA I am C+ with an average of 10 RWS.

[lukesterboy]

What is this  Logitech Pro G mouse everyone is talking of, it sounds quite good. Is it this one? I think the G502 is now out of my list so I'm looking at either the Pro G or some of the Zowie Gear.

[lukesterboy]

6 minutes ago, slifrocith said:

I missed the G502 scroll wheel the first couple hours / days but I got over it. I'm playing at 400 dpi, 1000Hz polling rate, 2.4 sensitivity and 0.9 zoom sensitivity. My matchmaking rank is Legendary Eagle / Legendary Eagle Master and on ESEA I am C+ with an average of 10 RWS.

 

Very nice. You said you use the EC1-A or the EC2-A? I like the deathadder size what one of the 2 is closer to the deathadder size, is it the EC1-A since that's the bigger one of the 2?

[slifrocith]

6 minutes ago, lukesterboy said:

What is this  Logitech Pro G mouse everyone is talking of, it sounds quite good. Is it this one? I think the G502 is now out of my list so I'm looking at either the Pro G or some of the Zowie Gear.

It is indeed that mouse they are talking about, it's pretty much a hybrid between the Logitech G100S and G303. G100S shape with G303 specifications. I can't vouch for it as I have not tried it but I'm pretty sure it's very good. Safe shape with a very good sensor.

[slifrocith]

23 minutes ago, lukesterboy said:

Very nice. You said you use the EC1-A or the EC2-A? I like the deathadder size what one of the 2 is closer to the deathadder size, is it the EC1-A since that's the bigger one of the 2?

I compared my mouse (EC2-A) to my brother's (DeathAdder Chroma) and the EC2-A is definitely the one closer to the DeathAdder. The DeathAdder seems to have a slightly higher hump in the middle / left side and is slightly wider than the EC2-A.

[lukesterboy]

Just now, slifrocith said:

I have the EC2-A, The EC2-A is definitely the one closer to the DeathAdder. The DeathAdder seems to have a slightly higher slope in the middle / left side and is slightly wider than the EC2-A.

 

Yeh my hand's aren't "large" so I think out of the EC1-A and EC2-A the EC2-A would be the better choice for me. Now it's just the question whether I get the EC2-A or wait for some reviews on the Logitech Pro G

[slifrocith]

1 minute ago, lukesterboy said:

Yeh my hand's aren't "large" so I think out of the EC1-A and EC2-A the EC2-A would be the better choice for me. Now it's just the question whether I get the EC2-A or wait for some reviews on the Logitech Pro G

Check out Rocket Jump Ninja's reviews on the EC2-A / G Pro Gaming Mouse.

 

Zowie EC2-A review (old white logo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug9ZoNB1UNk

Quick comparison of new Zowie mice (red logo) and the older Zowie mice (white logo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VSnZ4ICOt0

Comparison between the EC1-A and DeathAdder Chroma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y8jTQR0Cos

Logitech G Pro Gaming Mouse review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y52gOAzNSAU

 

[lukesterboy]

2 minutes ago, slifrocith said:

Check out Rocket Jump Ninja's reviews on the EC2-A / G Pro Gaming Mouse.

 

Zowie EC2-A review (old white logo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug9ZoNB1UNk

Quick comparison of new Zowie mice (red logo) and the older Zowie mice (white logo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VSnZ4ICOt0

Comparison between the EC1-A and DeathAdder Chroma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y8jTQR0Cos

Logitech G Pro Gaming Mouse review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y52gOAzNSAU

 

 

Thanks.

[slifrocith]

2 minutes ago, lukesterboy said:

Thanks.

No problem, glad I could help.

[lukesterboy]

1 hour ago, slifrocith said:

No problem, glad I could help.

After watching all these videos. I think I'm going to ask for the EC2-A.

[woll3]

Just now, lukesterboy said:

 Now it's just the question whether I get the EC2-A or wait for some reviews on the Logitech Pro G

TBH, there isnt much to think about, the PGM has a lot lower motion latency(so do actually many other mice compared to the Zowie´s) and the pricepoint is a lot better, the performance of the Zowie´s is far from "top notch".

 

And people should stop being so infatuated with RJN as he tends to leave details out, like for example motion latency, or the smoothing increase with A9800/3988/3989 for example.

[lukesterboy]

45 minutes ago, woll3 said:

TBH, there isnt much to think about, the PGM has a lot lower motion latency(so do actually many other mice compared to the Zowie´s) and the pricepoint is a lot better, the performance of the Zowie´s is far from "top notch".

 

And people should stop being so infatuated with RJN as he tends to leave details out, like for example motion latency, or the smoothing increase with A9800/3988/3989 for example.

 

What does all that mean? So are you saying Zowie is bad and the Logitech would be much better?

[woll3]

Just now, lukesterboy said:

What does all that mean? So are you saying Zowie is bad and the Logitech would be much better?

 

Not bad, but mediocre. Motion latency means how long it takes to send the data to the PC after moving, where 3310, 3988 and A9800 mice with unmodified SROM(Sensor Settings) inherently have a disadvantage due to its smoothing, add in old Firmware and a 10 year old MCU and you get the Zowie´s, which is also why im saying that the pricepoint isnt right, not to mention the shell design....

[lukesterboy]

26 minutes ago, woll3 said:

 

Not bad, but mediocre. Motion latency means how long it takes to send the data to the PC after moving, where 3310, 3988 and A9800 mice with unmodified SROM(Sensor Settings) inherently have a disadvantage due to its smoothing, add in old Firmware and a 10 year old MCU and you get the Zowie´s, which is also why im saying that the pricepoint isnt right, not to mention the shell design....

 

Well, i really doubt it affects the latency that much in reviews people don't have bad opinions like this... What are you saying overall, though, just don't get Zowie? Have you used Zowie before, if so what mouse and what mouse do you use now?

[slifrocith]

48 minutes ago, woll3 said:

 

Not bad, but mediocre. Motion latency means how long it takes to send the data to the PC after moving, where 3310, 3988 and A9800 mice with unmodified SROM(Sensor Settings) inherently have a disadvantage due to its smoothing, add in old Firmware and a 10 year old MCU and you get the Zowie´s, which is also why im saying that the pricepoint isnt right, not to mention the shell design....

The only problem with the shell design are the clicks which feel stiffer (I like that as it easier to tap with the AK/M4 and not burst on accident) and the side buttons who feel mushy, other than that the shell is ok. As for motion latency / click latency (which Logitech boast having the best) I will say this: it's not a deal breaker. It's nowhere near mediocre enough to be noticeable in an everyday scenario. I've forgot to mention that I've also used a Logitech G303 so in the end I've used two of Logitech's top of the line mice and I didn't notice any of that motion latency / click latency thing when I switched over to Zowie.

[BLoCkZ420]

I for one have a G303 and for me at least, it's the perfect fit. I struggle with mice that have kind of a 'right handed' shape since i use a fingertip grip. The sensor is terrific and it's one of the lighter mice that I've used (87g mouse only). If fingertip-grip is your thing I'd highly recommend checking it out!

[woll3]

Just now, lukesterboy said:

Well, i really doubt it affects the latency that much in reviews people don't have bad opinions like this... What are you saying overall, though, just don't get Zowie? Have you used Zowie before, if so what mouse and what mouse do you use now?

Well, it depends on the person obviously, and most reviewers are rather bad or insensitive to delay, that also goes for RJN. And overall i have to say, yeah, people shouldnt buy it, regardless of if they feel the difference or not as imo it is a matter of principle, getting worse performance and 10 year old hardware for a premium price etc., and especially Zowie "fans" should shout out and say that this isnt acceptable. As for myself using Zowie, i have an EC1 from 2009, a white EC1 eVo, and an -A, the solution with the Kingsis lens for the LOD was already rather meh, but 3310 was clearly a step back to me, but that also goes for other mice as well. Im using the PGM since Chris Pate send me one for testing.

 

Just now, slifrocith said:

The only problem with the shell design are the clicks which feel stiffer (I like that as it easier to tap with the AK/M4 and not burst on accident) and the side buttons who feel mushy, other than that the shell is ok. As for motion latency / click latency (which Logitech boast having the best) I will say this: it's not a deal breaker. It's nowhere near mediocre enough to be noticeable in an everyday scenario. I've forgot to mention that I've also used a Logitech G303 so in the end I've used two of Logitech's top of the line mice and I didn't notice any of that motion latency / click latency thing when I switched over to Zowie.

Except the creaking, and its not only that they feel stiffer, it is highly dependend on the torque put onto the screws, some units are quite sensitive, a problem the Deathadder already has had, and that could have been fixed considering that the EC1 is literally a simplified Deathadder(made/designed by Kingsis etc.). If it is a deal breaker depends on the person and useage scenario, for me as somebody that "goes all in"(altough the last time was the BF4 ESL One), it rather is a big deal to me, and there are players out there who prefer A3050´s and A9500´s due to the motion latency, as written above, i also see it as a matter of principle. Click latency/debounce time isnt really an issue anymore though, altough instead of bad it is now just mediocre.

[slifrocith]

On 26/08/2016 at 8:20 AM, woll3 said:

TBH, there isnt much to think about, the PGM has a lot lower motion latency(so do actually many other mice compared to the Zowie´s) and the pricepoint is a lot better, the performance of the Zowie´s is far from "top notch".

 

And people should stop being so infatuated with RJN as he tends to leave details out, like for example motion latency, or the smoothing increase with A9800/3988/3989 for example.

There is a reason why the motion latency thing is never mentionned, it's not relevant in an everyday use scenario. Maybe in a test environment inside a lab it is so the companies can boast having the best said motion latency / click latency on the market but it's definitely not something you should base your shopping habits on. I'm not saying that there is no difference between the mice, I am just saying that buying a mouse based on that alone is ridiculous. The gap between say a Logitech and a Zowie mouse is nowhere near big enough to be noticeable in a human test. As for the smoothing increase on 3988/3989, you'll mostly never really experience it if you use a low dpi, problems arise when you go over a certain dpi. RJN runs most of his tests at 400, 800, 1600 and 3200 dpi so that's probably why he never experienced any in his tests. As for the ADNS-9800, RJN pointed out that it does suffers from deceleration / smoothing in his SteelSeries Sensei Raw video.

[woll3]

Just now, slifrocith said:

There is a reason why the motion latency thing is never mentionned, it's not relevant in an everyday use scenario. Maybe it is in a test environment inside a lab it is so the companies can boast having the best said motion latency / click latency on the market but it's definitely not something you should base your shopping habits on. I'm not saying that there is no difference between the mice, I am just saying that buying a mouse based on that alone is ridiculous. The gap between say a Logitech and a Zowie mouse is nowhere near big enough to be noticeable in a human test. As for the smoothing increase on 3988/3989, you'll mostly never really experience it if you use a low dpi, problems arise when you go over a certain dpi. RJN runs most of his tests at 400, 800, 1600 and 3200 dpi so that's probably why he never experienced any in his tests. As for the ADNS-9800, RJN pointed out that it does suffers from deceleration / smoothing in his SteelSeries Sensei Raw video.

 

Well as said, depends on the person, if you dont notice any difference, well, then it is so, but that doesnt mean that others cant, especially if they play a lot. And i think that shopping habits should be based on value for money, you wouldnt pay 100k for a 90´s civic or would you. And if somebody wants the 3.0 shape, than there are alternatives as well, like the Alcor.

 

Also the first increase in smoothing of the A9800 and 3988 happens at 1600, and at 3200 you get 16ms, which shoudl be easily noticeable by anyone, early A9800 and 3988 had it at around 30ms, which was noticed by even the most casual of users. IMO what you are saying goes against logic because there would be no reason to buy/design gaming mice in the first place.

 

 

 

[slifrocith]

19 minutes ago, woll3 said:

Well, it depends on the person obviously, and most reviewers are rather bad or insensitive to delay, that also goes for RJN. And overall i have to say, yeah, people shouldnt buy it, regardless of if they feel the difference or not as imo it is a matter of principle, getting worse performance and 10 year old hardware for a premium price etc., and especially Zowie "fans" should shout out and say that this isnt acceptable. As for myself using Zowie, i have an EC1 from 2009, a white EC1 eVo, and an -A, the solution with the Kingsis lens for the LOD was already rather meh, but 3310 was clearly a step back to me, but that also goes for other mice as well. Im using the PGM since Chris Pate send me one for testing.

 

Except the creaking, and its not only that they feel stiffer, it is highly dependend on the torque put onto the screws, some units are quite sensitive, a problem the Deathadder already has had, and that could have been fixed considering that the EC1 is literally a simplified Deathadder(made/designed by Kingsis etc.). If it is a deal breaker depends on the person and useage scenario, for me as somebody that "goes all in"(altough the last time was the BF4 ESL One), it rather is a big deal to me, and there are players out there who prefer A3050´s and A9500´s due to the motion latency, as written above, i also see it as a matter of principle. Click latency/debounce time isnt really an issue anymore though, altough instead of bad it is now just mediocre.

I've had mine (EC2-A) for a few months now, been using it for 6+ hours everyday and no creaking whatsoever. If the creaking / clicks is such an issue you can always ask Zowie to send you a replacement. I understand the all in thing but every manufacturer have some bad units on the shelves, it's just like that. You could consider buying 2 mice instead of 1 so you don't have to gamble on it and get a refund for the other one later. As for the delays, if they were that bad no one would've bought Zowie mice, period. I don't know about the BF4 competitive community but in CS:GO's, they are very well regarded. Lots of CS:GO's top pros are using 'em. IMO, I think you're just being picky but it's alright, no mouse is perfect and everybody is different. Also your background is different, you're coming from BF4 and I from CS:GO. OP specifically asked for opinions on what mice to get for CS:GO, not BF4.

[lukesterboy]

29 minutes ago, slifrocith said:

I've had mine (EC2-A) for a few months now, been using it for 6+ hours everyday and no creaking whatsoever. If the creaking / clicks is such an issue you can always ask Zowie to send you a replacement. I understand the all in thing but every manufacturer have some bad units on the shelves, it's just like that. You could consider buying 2 mice instead of 1 so you don't have to gamble on it and get a refund for the other one later. As for the delays, if they were that bad no one would've bought Zowie mice, period. I don't know about the BF4 competitive community but in CS:GO's, they are very well regarded. Lots of CS:GO's top pros are using 'em. IMO, I think you're just being picky but it's alright, no mouse is perfect and everybody is different. Also your background is different, you're coming from BF4 and I from CS:GO. OP specifically asked for opinions on what mice to get for CS:GO, not BF4.

 

Yeh i think this is true. I would like this mouse more for csgo like i said in the title. I'm going ahead with the zowie anyway.

[slifrocith]

36 minutes ago, woll3 said:

 

Well as said, depends on the person, if you dont notice any difference, well, then it is so, but that doesnt mean that others cant, especially if they play a lot. And i think that shopping habits should be based on value for money, you wouldnt pay 100k for a 90´s civic or would you. And if somebody wants the 3.0 shape, than there are alternatives as well, like the Alcor.

 

Also the first increase in smoothing of the A9800 and 3988 happens at 1600, and at 3200 you get 16ms, which shoudl be easily noticeable by anyone, early A9800 and 3988 had it at around 30ms, which was noticed by even the most casual of users. IMO what you are saying goes against logic because there would be no reason to buy/design gaming mice in the first place.

 

 

 

I've never used any mice using the A9800 but I can speak for the 3988/3989, I've used it at 400, 800, 1600 and 3200, never had any issues with it nor noticed any of this smoothing / latency you are speaking of and I am by no mean a casual user. This is honest-to-God truth. Also you mentioned the shape / alternative thing, by no means the PGM is an EC2-A alternative shape-wise. The value argument is debatable, the Logitech Pro Gaming Mouse is $10 USD more expensive than the EC2-A and all you gain from it is "better motion / click latency", a heavy braided cable, RGB and a software to tweak the mouse settings, nothing someone playing CS:GO competitively should really care about.

[woll3]

Just now, slifrocith said:

I've had mine (EC2-A) for a few months now, been using it for 6+ hours everyday and no creaking whatsoever. If the creaking / clicks is such an issue you can always ask Zowie to send you a replacement. I understand the all in thing but every manufacturer have some bad units on the shelves, it's just like that. You could consider buying 2 mice instead of 1 so you don't have to gamble on it and get a refund for the other one later. As for the delays, if they were that bad no one would've bought Zowie mice, period. I don't know about the BF4 competitive community but in CS:GO's, they are very well regarded. Lots of CS:GO's top pros are using 'em. IMO, I think you're just being picky but it's alright, no mouse is perfect and everybody is different. Also your background is different, you're coming from BF4 and I from CS:GO. OP specifically asked for opinions on what mice to get for CS:GO, not BF4.

 

As said, its mediocre, not unusable, and i rather discuss products not players, the creaking is also a recurring thing since the DA 3G that might be less pronounced on the 2´s due to there size not to mention that i dont have to buy mice but thats another topic, and also as said, other s notice the difference, if you dont, well, good for you. And the alternative i brought up was the Alcor,  which offers more, in a similar shape for a lot less, i never said the PGM was similar in shape.

 

Also i mentioned only what has been the latest "big" thing i did, i also played in the CS:GO EPS(back when it wasnt just "Meisterschaft") Relegation, but well whatever, the market has already been stale enough, but if people want 10 year old stuff just because of hype, well, its up to them, or maybe it just doesnt matter in one shot spray games anyway. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)