Razer BlackWidow thoughts?

[Networking Wolf]

So what do you recommend corsair or razer?

[Milliardo]

9 hours ago, Kleever said:

I do agree with you on your point the only negative aspect is their long term durability. Cherry have proven their switches are built to last but only time will tell if the Chinese alternatives can also last as long. I do still think, any manufacturer should be given a chance regardless if it's made in China or Germany. 

And I agree with this. We'll have to see in the long term whether Kailh and Greetech as well as other Cherry MX imitations will last long. It seems the only thing that is being said is that it's made in China, and when it breaks people are quick to jump that it is inferior because it's made in China, as if that actually proved anything.

[Networking Wolf]

29 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

I do not see any overwhelming positive reception at all, and even so that's not necessarily a valid point as switches are complete personal preference. If you read the comparison of Greetech vs. Cherry switches it shows that they aren't the same, not necessarily for the better or worse depending on your preference. Why would I link something that fights against my source? lol

Hmm? Kailh switches have already been proved to be unreliable, inconsistent clones of Cherry switches. They've already been around for a while and people know they suck.

 

People are skeptical because, as I said earlier, they're a very new switch, manufactured in China (like Kaihl), and are clones of Cherry switches whether it's better or worse. 

 

Chinese manufacturing has always proved since Day 1 that it's: A) much cheaper, and B) much more hit-and-miss and harder to moderate quality. Don't act like it's meaningless.

so corsair or razer?

[GR8-Ride]

29 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

I do not see any overwhelming positive reception at all, and even so that's not necessarily a valid point as switches are complete personal preference. If you read the comparison of Greetech vs. Cherry switches it shows that they aren't the same, not necessarily for the better or worse depending on your preference. Why would I link something that fights against my source? lol

Hmm? Kailh switches have already been proved to be unreliable, inconsistent clones of Cherry switches. They've already been around for a while and people know they suck.

 

People are skeptical because, as I said earlier, they're a very new switch, manufactured in China (like Kaihl), and are clones of Cherry switches whether it's better or worse. 

 

Chinese manufacturing has always proved since Day 1 that it's: A) much cheaper, and B) much more hit-and-miss and harder to moderate quality. Don't act like it's meaningless.

Well, when I look at the bottom of each of my keyboards, I see that the Razer is built in China, the Corsair is built in China, and my Das Pro 4 is built in China.   Of those three, the only one I have a problem with is the Corsair.   Must be because it's built in China...

 

Oh, and Audi does build cars in China in Changchun.  The A4L, A6L, Q3 and Q5 are all built in China for the Chinese market, by First Automotive Works.   Audi sells more cars in China than anywhere else.

 

The spectre of crappy Chinese manufacturing is largely a ghost of days past, though like anything (including German manufacturing), it's not perfect.   My iPhone is made in China, both my laptops are made in China, my iPad is made in China, and I'll bet that several parts in my German built car were made in China.

 

People have inherent biases, and this place seems to foster a hatred for all things Razer.   I'm sure Razer could go back to using Cherry MX switches, and people would still hate them....they'd just have to think of something other than the switches to hate them for.

 

Honestly, I wanted to love the Corsair keyboard.   Had it worked the way it theoretically should have, it would have been my daily keyboard and I would have shelved the Das and Razer.   I am quite surprised at how disappointing the Corsair felt.

[GR8-Ride]

19 minutes ago, Jstone said:

so corsair or razer?

Based purely upon my own experiences, I'd say Razer.

[GR8-Ride]

5 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

We're exclusively talking about the switches, why are you talking about the exterior build and keycaps now?

 

Well, you said just a few posts ago about how Chinese manufacturing is hit and miss and harder to moderate quality.   

 

You said yourself "Don't act like it's meaningless".   So I'm simply reiterating that fact....Chinese manufacturing quality is very much the discussion here, and tons of products are mass produced in China daily, with quality from downright atrocious to absolutely stellar.   You can't isolate one element (the switches) from the rest of the manufacturing base of the country, and imply that the switches are shit because they're made in China.   Time will tell if Greetech is any better than Kailh, or even better than Cherry.   Or worse...if my Razer keyboard dies, then I probably wouldn't buy another one.   I do know I won't be buying another Corsair keyboard though.

 

17 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

Yes, but I'm using Kailh as my basis point here. Kailh is Chinese manufactured and is unreliable. Cherry is German manufactured and not. The reality of Chinese manufacturing is that there is much less quality control put into it than in other countries. Chinese manufacturing uses much more of a mass-manufacturing method than any other country, while in North American and European countries there tends to be more attention paid to small details and much more competent workers/managers.

 

I take it you haven't spent much time in either a Chinese factory or any North American or European factories.       I've been in Foxconn's facilities in Shenzhen (years ago when they built products for us), and their factory was every bit as clean and organized (and often moreso) than most American factories.   And don't even get me started on British factories, which often made the American ones look stunning (most of this was in the automotive world....the unions didn't help quality control at all in the 80s and 90s).

 

Of all the European industrial bases, Germany has certainly fostered the reputation for being the best quality, and some key investments (namely Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft)  have maintained that advantage in specific areas.   Most other European countries are far behind Germany in manufacturing prowess and reputation (outside of wine and cheese, made in France is not something that anyone thinks highly of).

 

The days of saying "it's built in China, therefore it's no good" are long past.   

 

31 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

Razer isn't just hated for their keyboards. Their mice are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. The products themselves (design, sensor, buttons) are pretty good, but DeathAdders, Diamondbacks, and so on seem to break after close to one year of use extremely often. When Razer released the Nabu and Nabu X, reports came flooding in saying that they were breaking within weeks. Their prices are also ridiculous for the quality they offer

I've had three Razer Orochi mice, and all three have been excellent in my experience.   The original one I gave to a co-worker when he needed a mouse on a road-trip, and he's still using it now (it's the original Orochi...so it's several years old).   I have a 2013 Orochi connected to my machine at home, and a new one that I travel with.   The new one is too new to make any reliability claims about it, but the other two are both at least 2 years old, and never failed.

 

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I haven't had any reliability issues with any of their stuff, though again, all I use is three generations of a single mouse, and one keyboard.   Oh, and a mouse pad, but if that fails.... 

[Kleever]

5 hours ago, Cosmopath said:

I do not see any overwhelming positive reception at all, and even so that's not necessarily a valid point as switches are complete personal preference. If you read the comparison of Greetech vs. Cherry switches it shows that they aren't the same, not necessarily for the better or worse depending on your preference. Why would I link something that fights against my source? lol

Hmm? Kailh switches have already been proved to be unreliable, inconsistent clones of Cherry switches. They've already been around for a while and people know they suck.

 

People are skeptical because, as I said earlier, they're a very new switch, manufactured in China (like Kaihl), and are clones of Cherry switches whether it's better or worse. 

 

Chinese manufacturing has always proved since Day 1 that it's: A) much cheaper, and B) much more hit-and-miss and harder to moderate quality. Don't act like it's meaningless.

You don't see overwhelming positive reception at all? Are we looking at the same thing because these are some posts from the thread you linked: 

 

1)" They are not simply a re-brand, they are current the best, IMO, of the 'clones.' But I believe they are in a class all by themselves, and they are certainly giving Cherry a run for their money. Overall Quality is there with Greetechs. I now see why Das Keyboard is going with them for all new editions of their 'boards. "

 

2) "Got my samples! Smoother than Kailh and Cherry. Still scratchy, but not so noticeable. The brown has a much more noticeable bump than GATERON Browns. Blues are like Cherry Blues. More you want to know?"

 

3) "Got my sample today. I'll post a real review soon, but these feel really good. Definitely smoother than new Cherry and I like the click on the blues."

 

4) "I was going to write a long review for these switches but honestly, I'm not sure how to. To me, Greetech switches simply feel the way Cherry MX switches wish they did. The Greetech Red and Black are actually smooth. Not Gateron smooth but better than stock Cherry and almost as good as lubed linears. Red is too light for me but I like the Blacks. The Greetech Blues feel like Cherry MX Blues. This was the least exciting switch for me because they feel the same. Pretty interchangeable. The Greetech Browns I could actually see myself using. I find Cherry MX Browns to be horrible. Gritty, with a barely there tactile bump, they're probably my least favorite mechanical keyboard switch. They're like a bad linear switch. The Greetech Browns are like Ergo-Clears (actual ergo clears with the MX Blue/Red/Brown springs) but the bump is 50% of the ergo-clear. As a random side note, the switches even seem to fit into my plate and keychains a bit tighter. I think that's a good thing. Honestly, between the Greetech MX-mount switches, Gateron MX-mount switches, and the Zealio switches, I no longer see myself using actual Cherry MX. For a cheaper price, I get a better product. It will be very nice to be able to just slap switches into a build without lubing or spring swapping. Goodbye Cherry MX. It was a good run while it lasted."

 

5) "I totally agree with you, I literally never use cherry switches anymore, I feel like the company is just resting on all their deals providing for pre-built boards to the point where they no longer need to stay competitive or even relevant. My question is, are Greetech browns worth it over the Gateron equivalents do you think? "

 

6) "The Gateron Browns from what I remember, felt like Cherry MX Clears. The Greetech Browns feel like what Cherry MX Browns should have felt like."

 

It seems very positive to me. Regarding what you said about Chinese manufacturing, what does that say about Cherry for example, who took two years to get RGB MX Blues back on the market, only to be hit with another wave of backlash, meanwhile the cheaper, knockoff Chinese switches are being highly praised? This whole made in China notion = inferior is absurd, I can assure you 99% of everything you own is stamped with made in China on the back. 

[Kleever]

50 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

All but one of the things you listed are not positive reception of Greetech switches but rather people complaining about Cherry switches. Just because some people don't like Cherry switches doesn't mean they suck.

 

It seems that the main feature of Greetech Browns that are being received either positively or negatively is that there's a much more noticeable bump to them. Again, that can be recieved either way.

 

Here's an excerpt from a Keychatter article on the Das 4C with Greetech Browns (https://www.keychatter.com/2015/07/01/5786/):

 

"The switches do have a few issues though. My main issue is that they are not as smooth as their Cherry counterparts and feel slightly scratchier. The switches also have some inconsistencies in their sound and feel. I noticed a few keys, especially the space bar, that had a loud “ping.”  

 

"who took two years to get RGB MX Blues back on the market"? What does that even mean? The MX Blues are a switch made by Cherry. RGB lighting is something that is added to the PCB of the keyboard by the manufacturer (e.g. Corsair). What on earth does the Corsair K70 RGB with MX Blues incident have to do with Cherry?

 

Apparently you can't be bothered to read into my previous posts, because I've addressed this a million times over to GR8-Ride.

 

Are you serious right now? You're just ignoring everything we keep telling you. Let me break it down for you, Cherry makes the RGB MX Blues, the RGB MX Blues are NOT the same as the regular MX Blues. I can't make this more simple for you, the whole switch, including the crystal shell is made by Cherry, Corsair just sticks a LED inside there: http://forum.corsair.com/v2/showthread.php?t=132911&page=5 or did you simply not know from 2014-2016, there were NO RGB MX Blues on the market due to QA issues? Cherry mass produced a switch that wasn't ready at all for use and Corsair had to eat the RMA's. What I'm conveying is, not everything Cherry touches is a mountain of gold, the Chinese clones aren't perfect either but that's the point, no one is perfect and no company, including Cherry is immune to QA issues.

 

" I am PMing you now with the info. I bought my k70 rgb blues from newegg like last week and it feels like complete garbage its very inconsistent. Probably the worse of them all. Tear it apart and research it for science. "

 

"This problem is not unique to Corsair. I now have two non-perfect Cherry blue keyboards (single colour LED) from a competing brand - purchased a month apart.  The first I bought from China (and it was made in China) and was immediately disappointed. Most keys have the nice click, but half a dozen or more do not and can be quite mushy, and some (mostly number keys) have a subjectively higher force. They are all blue (i.e. blue plunger). My first thought was "cheap copy" but on close inspection everything about it seems genuine.  I then bought a similar, slightly older model (same manufacturer, but made in Taiwan) from a local supplier. It is much better, but not perfect. Key force is more consistent, but one number key in particular had negligible click - although is getting better with use.  I am very interested to hear the final verdict on this problem (the root cause)."

 

"As much as people want to talk crap on Razer's "knockoff" switches, they have always felt the most consistant to me. Owned 3 keyboards and not a single issues. I love the k70 rgb but this inconsistency is making me think twice. Going to wait to rma mine until hopefully this issue is fixed."

 

"I would also like to note that K95 RGB keyboards with blue switches are affected as well. I just received mine today from Amazon. I'm having the same issues."

 

"I was wondering that myself,or they pulled all the keyboards with the new logo to change it. I can't find a blue switch keyboard anywhere. So I bought the Razer Chroma. The keys are incredible. Zero issues with the keyboard,but it lacks some of the cool things the Corsair can do. I would buy the Corsair also if I could find one.. "

 

"we have the same problem!! i might return mine for warranty. it gets really annoying not clicking"

 

"This topic is about the RGB blue switches which are different from the normal blue switches, Corsair is still producing the normal blue switches versions of the keyboard. Cherry has not discontinued those."

 

Every keyboard with Cherry switches or not I've owned has had pinging in the switches, EVERY single one so you have no valid point there. In fact I have videos on my Youtube channel showing how bad the ping was on the Corsair board verses the Blackwidow's spacebar.

 

I have both keyboards, I can make direct comparisons, I've used standard Kailh Blues, non RGB MX Blues, RGB MX Blues, 2014 Kailh Razer Green and 2016 Greetech Razer Green and a non RGB MX Red keyboard. Trust me, I'm in more of a position to comment since I've used each product from different manufacturer's over the years(Corsair, Cooler Master, Razer, Azio, Steelseries) 

 

 

[Kleever]

22 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

What the fuck are you on about?? There are no such thing as "RGB MX Blues", and the thread you linked doesn't help your statement at all. That's just people complaining about the feel of the keyboard, there's only ONE person who says the switches are not the same and yet a Corsair employee says otherwise.  I'm not even going to bother to argue with this point anymore. 

 

No, every mechanical KEYBOARD has pinging in the switches, regardless of switch. Again, from Keychatter:

 

"Slight inconsistencies are a normal detail that most mechanical keyboards have, but the Greetech switches seem to vary a bit more than keyboards with Cherry switches."

 

Good for you!

I'm not going to trust you on shit without an accurate and trustworthy source. If everyone believed random people all the time on the internet the amount of misinformation flying would be inside. You're not in any more of a position to comment than I am.

 

Wow man, I honestly thought you did have some form of intelligence but it's obvious you don't. I'm assuming you only own one mechanical keyboard as well. Resorting to cursing just means you've hit a brick wall and no longer know what to say. Sigh, I'll try one more time to get it through to you. RGB MX SWITCHES ARE NOT THE SAME AS REGULAR NON RGB CHERRY MX SWITCHES. You can say they are until you're blue in the face but it won't change the fact that they aren't. The simple change that the LED is mounted inside a crystal shell verses outside the shell is already a redesign of the switch itself.

 

You can't really trust a Corsair forum moderator who hadn't even used the switch or keyboard himself and had no idea what anyone was talking about, I like how you bring that up and ignore the 5 pages of complaints and the fact that only the RGB variant was discontinued for two years while the single LED switch was not. in fact I can dig up a post about two months ago regarding the release of the LUX line where another Corsair employee specifically stated that whatever issues the RGB MX Blues have had in the past, they should be sorted out by now.

 

Yes, every keyboard has pinging switches, some worse than others. I experienced more pinging in my Cherry switches than my Greetech switches. Am I going to make a statement saying OMG fail, Cherry = trash, no obviously not. But according to you, because one guy said that the Greetech had more in HIS unit, every keyboard must be the same right? Take your own advice and don't listen to one person. Take a general audience of reviews/feedback and make the choice for yourself. The evidence is right there in front of you, if you want to ignore it, fine, no one really cares what you enjoy. This is a topic meant to report feedback to the OP, not you, and that's what I've done.

 

I tried to be civil with you, as others have on this thread but it's completely obvious you're just too ignorant and stuck with the same redundant mindset. 

[Kleever]

Here you go, if this doesn't make it any more obvious that there is a such thing as a CHERRY RGB MX BLUE than I don't know what to tell you: