Razer BlackWidow thoughts?

[Networking Wolf]

Hey so I'm wanting to buy Razer - BlackWidow Chroma Keyboard - Multi any thoughts? I need the programmable keys for various things I work on

[Bl00dgod]

its clicky AF, if you dont like that you should check if the BWChroma stealth is ok for you to get some unclicky razer switches

but its all plastic and expensive

maybe the corsair k mechanicals keyboards are a nice alternative too with makro buttons and rgb

[failblox]

I don't know about Razer's keyboard, but I do have one of their mice, and my experience with their software hasn't been the greatest. It's better now, but occasionally it won't detect that my mouse is plugged into my computer and I'll have to restart the software. It also always has a notification at the top asking me to download Razer Surround (one of their software audio enhancements), and every time I click "No" instead of "Yes" or "Remind me later", but it still shows up, which I find frustrating.

 

Also, it's pretty common for my computer to not detect my mouse at all when I start it up. It won't move at all. So I have to go around to the back of my computer and reconnect my mouse - then it'll work. I find this quite annoying.

 

I know a lot of people have had good experiences with Razer products, but these are my own experiences with their products. Needless to say, I probably won't be picking up one of their products in the future.

[Ophidio]

Like mentioned above Razer keys are really clicky. But I like clicky clicky fun fun so that never bothered me but it can bother other people. For my actual thoughts and opinions on the Razer Blackwidow since I use one every single day, it's a very well constructed keyboard but the shape of it can be weird in some situtations. I prefer keyboards that are exactly rectangular and have no angles or other forms of shapes ont he corners of the keyboard. The biggest thing that bothers me most about the keyboard is how the keys will stick. Regardless of what Razer Keyboard you get the keys will always stick if you press it enough. Doesn't matter how new or how old it is it will stick. Like in GTA or Arma if you're driving and you press down on A or D for to long to turn the key will stick and you occasionally be stuck going in that direction until you press the key again and reset the switch. Another thing, with the way the housing is made for the keyboard dirt, hair,, food, and etc like to get stuck under the keycaps A LOT and if you're a clean freak like me you're taking the keycaps off once, sometimes twice a month to clean them.  Other keyboards I've used I've only needed to this about every six months to a year. 

 

Good things about the keyboard, it's really easy to program macros through Razer Synapse and the Chroma configurator is really easy to use and there's a lot of cool third party SDK's for the keyboard to give it even more features. It has a really nice feel to it when you type with it. It's very responsive. Like I said earlier the construction quality of it is great. It does not feel flimsy whatsoever. It feels really strong and robust like it could possibly take a beating even though I would never beat my keyboard... only my wife... jk.... #foreveralone. Anyway, the RGB backlighting is really bright and sometimes can be to bright but bright is always better than dull. 

[othertomperson]

I'm still using a BlackWidow ultimate from 2011. I can't see myself changing ever but for user error (like if I destroy it by pouring a whole beverage over it or something). Most sturdy piece of Razer kit I've had, though looking at my old Razer mouse that isn't saying much. Didn't last half as long as this.

 

That being said, this is from 2011. This is before Razer started making their own key switches, so it is using Cherry MX Blues. I have no idea how durable Razer's switches are, but I do love Cherry MX Blues. Apparently so does Razer because if the other posts in this thread are anything to go on they just seem to have copied them as closely as possible.

[Bl00dgod]

24 minutes ago, Ophidio said:

Like mentioned above Razer keys are really clicky. But I like clicky clicky fun fun so that never bothered me but it can bother other people. For my actual thoughts and opinions on the Razer Blackwidow since I use one every single day, it's a very well constructed keyboard but the shape of it can be weird in some situtations. I prefer keyboards that are exactly rectangular and have no angles or other forms of shapes ont he corners of the keyboard. The biggest thing that bothers me most about the keyboard is how the keys will stick. Regardless of what Razer Keyboard you get the keys will always stick if you press it enough. Doesn't matter how new or how old it is it will stick. Like in GTA or Arma if you're driving and you press down on A or D for to long to turn the key will stick and you occasionally be stuck going in that direction until you press the key again and reset the switch. Another thing, with the way the housing is made for the keyboard dirt, hair,, food, and etc like to get stuck under the keycaps A LOT and if you're a clean freak like me you're taking the keycaps off once, sometimes twice a month to clean them.  Other keyboards I've used I've only needed to this about every six months to a year. 

 

i´m not the only one yeah, was already thinking my chroma is defective or i have to RMA it for those sticky buttons, i clean it once a while and dont eat on the pc

maybe its kind of a feature noone knows about ... a "remember" function

[Networking Wolf]

I need to get one on Friday so the option is either the corsair k70 or blackwidow I like clicky which one is better

[Ophidio]

9 minutes ago, Bl00dgod said:

i´m not the only one yeah, was already thinking my chroma is defective or i have to RMA it for those sticky buttons, i clean it once a while and dont eat on the pc

maybe its kind of a feature noone knows about ... a "remember" function

Nah dude, the sticky buttons are a very common thing with Razer, I was even told before I bought the keyboard that the buttons will most likely stick but I was all confident back then and like nah fuck them they don't know what they're talking about. Three days later the keys started sticking. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jstone said:

I need to get one on Friday so the option is either the corsair k70 or blackwidow I like clicky which one is better

Go with the K70 it uses MX Cherry switches which are far better than Razer's switch. You also get the choice of Red, Brown, and Blue switches. Which if you don't know the difference there are plenty of youtube videos to explain it. Blue switches are the closest to a Razers clicky switch though. Red's are the quietest of the bunch but in my personal opinion are not meant for gaming they are meant more for a professional office use, and Browns are just right in between. Little clicky noise, very responsive, and feel absolutely amazing for anything that you could be using it for. If you can't tell by that sentence Brown switches are my personal favorite. 

 

But definitely go with a K70 just decide which kind of switch you want to get. 

[Networking Wolf]

1 minute ago, Ophidio said:

Nah dude, the sticky buttons are a very common thing with Razer, I was even told before I bought the keyboard that the buttons will most likely stick but I was all confident back then and like nah fuck them they don't know what they're talking about. Three days later the keys started sticking. 

 

Go with the K70 it uses MX Cherry switches which are far better than Razer's switch. You also get the choice of Red, Brown, and Blue switches. Which if you don't know the difference there are plenty of youtube videos to explain it. Blue switches are the closest to a Razers clicky switch though. Red's are the quietest of the bunch but in my personal opinion are not meant for gaming they are meant more for a professional office use, and Browns are just right in between. Little clicky noise, very responsive, and feel absolutely amazing for anything that you could be using it for. If you can't tell by that sentence Brown switches are my personal favorite. 

 

But definitely go with a K70 just decide which kind of switch you want to get. 

thanks btw never buy a Logitech keyboard they are trash

[Ophidio]

1 minute ago, Jstone said:

thanks btw never buy a Logitech keyboard they are trash

 I use a Logitech 610 Brown at work and I love it. So much so that I was going to buy another one for home to go with my Logitech Mouse. Maybe you just got badluck on the keyboard? Or maybe I just got really good luck on the 610 I bought. 

[Networking Wolf]

1 minute ago, Ophidio said:

 I use a Logitech 610 Brown at work and I love it. So much so that I was going to buy another one for home to go with my Logitech Mouse. Maybe you just got badluck on the keyboard? Or maybe I just got really good luck on the 610 I bought. 

I have had my Logitech g710+ replaced about 10 times by their customer support each time takes about 2 weeks to get it

[Ophidio]

Just curious what was the problem with it? If I was something related to the key switch just to let you know the Logitech 710+ generally had Blue switches unless you got the Brown version. But I've also heard of a lot of other problems with those keyboards anyway that had nothing to do with the switch. 

[Networking Wolf]

Just now, Ophidio said:

Just curious what was the problem with it? If I was something related to the key switch just to let you know the Logitech 710+ generally had Blue switches unless you got the Brown version. But I've also heard of a lot of other problems with those keyboards anyway that had nothing to do with the switch. 

I have the browns and the problem im having is that they get stuck and become hard to press its the physical key switches which are the problem Logitech like I said has been replacing them but im getting tiered of it

 

 

[Remixt]

2 hours ago, Jstone said:

Hey so I'm wanting to buy Razer - BlackWidow Chroma Keyboard - Multi any thoughts? I need the programmable keys for various things I work on

I've had a chroma for awhile. If you don't want your typing to be super loud then don't buy it. Otherwise its a fantastic keyboard. The colors are vibrant and the amount of customization is awesome. 

[Milliardo]

I just bought the Razer Black Widow Overwatch edition last month and so far I like it. Yes it is noisy, but then it's not that noisy really. When you have been used to a typewriter growing up the sound of a mechanical keyboard is soft compared to it. As with anything, it really depends on the one using it. 

[Networking Wolf]

6 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

Shitty knock-off switches, shitty software, extremely overpriced. If you want a great RGB keyboard with tons of macro keys that will actually last you as while, get a Corsair K95 RGB.

im going to get the corsair

[GR8-Ride]

1 hour ago, Cosmopath said:

Shitty knock-off switches, shitty software, extremely overpriced. If you want a great RGB keyboard with tons of macro keys that will actually last you as while, get a Corsair K95 RGB.

Actually, I'll dispute this comment.    I have several mechanical keyboards, including a Corsair K70 Lux RGB, a Razer BW Tournament Edition, and a couple of DAS Keyboards (3S Pro and 4 Pro).

 

For actual keyboard feel, I equate the Razer BW Chroma (with new Razer switches) and my Das Keyboard 4 Pro with Cherry MX Blues, and both keyboards are superior to my Corsair K70 Lux RGB (also with Cherry MX Blues).   With my Corsair K70, the main alphanumeric keys are fine with the MX Blues, but any of the large keys (Enter, Shift, Backspace et al) feel like crap.   With my Das Key Pro 4 and Razer BW Chroma, all of the keys have the same, consistent feel to them, whether it's the alphanumeric keys or the large keys.   I do prefer the brushed aluminum look and feel of the Corsair K70 Lux vs the Razer BW Tournament edition, which collects greasy fingerprints like mad on the plastic shell.   This is another thing that I like about the Das Keyboard Pro 4 vs the Razer...(and it's why the Das KB 4 is my favourite....too bad it's not backlit).

 

I also wish the Razer came with dedicated media keys like either the Das or the Corsair.

 

But typing remains the biggest issue for me, and as such, the Corsair was the weakest of the group.   It literally did not feel as good to type on as either the Razer or the Das.

 

I had some troubles with Razer Synapse software on a Mac a couple of years ago, but it's been rock solid since.   So far on Win 10, Synapse has been solid for me.   I wasn't thrilled with Corsair's CUE software either (which doesn't exist on Mac....but not a big deal there anyway, as I was using it on my Windows laptop anyhow).

 

 

 

Patrick

[gamerking]

4 hours ago, Jstone said:

Hey so I'm wanting to buy Razer - BlackWidow Chroma Keyboard - Multi any thoughts? I need the programmable keys for various things I work on

i have it works great they update the software side about every 2-4 days which is nice . the RGB works great just on sleeping of the pc if you do that it screws up sometimes gets stuck on one thing like a gamemode and the macrokeys will not work till the synapse software gets restarted . only thing i didnt like at first some come with a buggy firmware that needs to be updated . it would press a key randomly  if nothing was pressed like a hour later . almost like a stuck key but with a silly  long delay  . the programable keys can do nearly anything which is great

[YubinTheBunny]

I use a 2013 edition, I tried the first version when they switch the switches and I didn't really like it. If I were to get a new keyboard right now I would probably get something Logitech or Corsair. They are both superior in both build and software imo. 

[GR8-Ride]

Just now, Cosmopath said:

Not talking about the actual feel of the switches, Razer switches have inferior build quality and will likely stop working after a couple of years. Some people prefer Kailh to Cherry, but not many.

 

That literally makes no sense when comparing it to the Das. They both use the same switches with ABS keycaps so typing would feel exactly the same. 

The new Razer switches are built by Greetech, not Kailh, but the warranty is valid until next July, so if it dies before that, I'm not terribly worried about it.

 

As to the Das Keyboard vs the Corsair, that would have been my same thought as well.   Except that I have both, and the keys literally feel different.   The Corsair keyboard feels "cheap" in comparison to the Das Keyboard, especially when hitting the large keys.   According to Corsair and Das, they do use different stabilizers for the large keys, so the best I can figure is that's the sole difference between them.

 

My Das Keyboard 3S even feels different (harder, actually) than my new Das Keyboard 4 Pro.   The original was built in Taiwan, and even after several years of pounding on it, it feels different / stiffer than my brand new Das Keyboard 4 Pro (made in China).   Both have Cherry MX Blues on them....but the keyboards have noticeably different feel and sound.   My old Das KB 3S almost feels more like a buckling spring or Cherry MX Green switch than MX Blues.

 

I was quite surprised, and very disappointed that the Corsair keyboard felt that inconsistent compared to my Das KB or the Razer.   Because otherwise it had all of the features that I wanted (RGB, aluminum top plate, dedicated media keys, USB pass-through).

 

Might order myself a Ducky Shine 5 next time around.....

 

 

 

Patrick

[Kleever]

1 hour ago, Cosmopath said:

I know, but they're so similar to Kailh that it's barely even wrong to call them Kailh. 

 

I have tested both a Das 4, K70, K95 and Strafe and I actually have no idea what you're talking about. Something has lead me to believe that you might have gotten a defective K70 as I cannot tell a difference between the two in terms of switch feeling.

How would you define this "cheap" feeling? The only thing I could possible gather from this difference are stabilizers feeling looser. 

 

Again, doesn't make any sense. The S and 4 use the same keycaps, but the S is blank and the 4 is not. It's most likely that you just got stiffer switches from the factory, as there is no possible factor that could make that much of a difference.

 

PBT keycaps and o-rings on switches are the factors that make switches feel different, which pretty much all keyboards don't come pre-applied with. Loose stabilizers are most likely a factory error as I have never noticed your observations in my testing. 

 

The only difference between, say the K70 and the Das 4 is just the outer build quality. Switches should feel the exact same way, and if not there's most likely something wrong with your sample.

 

 

It's not defective, it's just he has the Corsair LUX with RGB Cherry MX Blues which are quite honestly, not that good. I bought one when they came out a month ago and it was a mess, extremely stiff keys, my spacebar was rattling and the larger keys felt extremely stiff if pressed on the sides, you'd have to hit it dead center for it to actuate and feel decent. Many people experienced issues with the RGB MX Blues on the new LUX line. My replacement was a lot better than the first unit I received but the larger keys still felt stiff and not nearly as crisp as the Razer Blackwidow X Chroma I also own. Here's posts on the official Corsair forums were many users reported similar problems on their MX Blues: http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=159012

http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=159227

 

I'm pretty sure Das 4 uses Costar stabilizers and traditional MX Blues and I know Razer also uses Costar or at least a copy of it, where as the new Corsair keyboards only use Cherry stabilizers which I know many people don't like the feel of them especially after trying a keyboard with Costar stabilizers.

 

To the OP: If you're looking at Reds or Browns, I'd definitely recommend just getting something from Corsair if RGB is your thing since it's a keyboard packed with a lot of features. If you do want RGB lighting with clicky keys, I'd definitely give the nod to the new Razer switch, just make sure you're getting the newer switch from Greetech and not Kailh.

 

 

[Kleever]

The K70 LUX is identical to the regular K70 RGB besides lighting: same stabilizers, same keycaps, same switches, same exterior, and you don't see complaints about stiffness and the likes on the regular K70. If this is a widespread issue then it's just a lack of quality control on Corsair's side, similar to how newer Razer products have been declining in quality due to QA just getting worse every year. 

 

You're correct, the Das uses Costar stabilizers and newer Razer keyboards use some type of stabilizer whether it's Costar or a knockoff, while newer Corsair keyboards just use Cherry stabilizers. I switched from a Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 2013 with Costar (or Costar-knockoff) stabilizers to a KBP V60 with just Cherry stabilizers and I couldn't find much of a difference between typing on the two, although I did note that on big keys Cherry stabilizers did feel a bit less tactile (and less stiff, actually), but not big enough of a difference to complain. Each to his own, I guess.

 

I know it all comes down to personal preference, but I wouldn't exclusively recommend Razer Greens (which are the clicky ones, Oranges are similar to MX Browns) before trying out MX Blues. They're extremely similar and MX Blues are better built. 

That's why I specifically mentioned RGB MX Blues, they've had a history of being unreliable since their release in 2014. The original K70 RGB with MX Blues were discontinued very shortly after their release for over two years due to widespread issues of keys not clicking, stiffness and inconsistency. Hence why I recommended if he was looking for RGB "clicky" keys that I'd recommend Razer's Green switch over the MX Blue RGB counterpart. Now if he's not looking into RGB lighting or MX Blues/clones of blues, then he should just pick whichever keyboard he likes more and whichever switch he prefers.

[GR8-Ride]

3 hours ago, Cosmopath said:

I know, but they're so similar to Kailh that it's barely even wrong to call them Kailh. 

 

I have tested both a Das 4, K70, K95 and Strafe and I actually have no idea what you're talking about. Something has lead me to believe that you might have gotten a defective K70 as I cannot tell a difference between the two in terms of switch feeling.

How would you define this "cheap" feeling? The only thing I could possible gather from this difference are stabilizers feeling looser. 

 

Again, doesn't make any sense. The S and 4 use the same keycaps, but the S is blank and the 4 is not. It's most likely that you just got stiffer switches from the factory, as there is no possible factor that could make that much of a difference.

 

PBT keycaps and o-rings on switches are the factors that make switches feel different, which pretty much all keyboards don't come pre-applied with. Loose stabilizers are most likely a factory error as I have never noticed your observations in my testing. 

 

The only difference between, say the K70 and the Das 4 is just the outer build quality. Switches should feel the exact same way, and if not there's most likely something wrong with your sample.

 

I'll dispute the Greetech vs Kailh comment.   Several high-end keyboards (including the new Das Keyboard 4C Ultimate) use the Greetech switches as well; I think the quality difference between Greetech and Kailh is likely significant.   That being said, if my Razer BW dies after the warranty is up, I'll toss it and buy something else (maybe I'll try another Corsair at that point.....hopefully their QA issues will be sorted out by then).

 

As to my K70 Lux being defective, that's entirely possible, however upon reading the Corsair forums after I purchased it, I honestly was surprised at how many people were having similar issues.   If it was just mine, I could chalk it up to quality control and just RMA the unit.   But the volume of complaints has led me to believe that it's a more systemic issue with the latest batch of keyboards.   It may very well remain a QA issue, but I'm not sure I can be bothered to continuously RMA a keyboard until I get one that works as it should.   I'll just RMA the keyboard and get a refund and move happily on with my DAS 4 Pro and Razer BW.

 

As to Das Keyboards, the Ultimate is the one with blank keycaps, not the S model.   Either way, there is a noticeable difference between the Taiwanese built Model 3S Pro and the Model 4 Pro (built in China).    There was a thread on Reddit back in 2012 discussing the same topic as well.  https://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards/comments/15n014/just_sent_an_email_to_daskeyboard/

 

Keyboards, like most human touch peripherals, are a very subjective thing.   I can type fast on just about anything, but my old Model M remains my favourite.   Should have never let my wife talk me into getting rid of it.....

 

 

 

Patrick

[GR8-Ride]

 

The funny thing about an open marketplace though, is that when someone (Cherry, in this case) had a virtual monopoly on a product for a long time, it's inevitable that someone else would step in and build something cheaper and/or better.   Kailh and Greetech both took advantage of Cherry letting their patents expire, and while long-term durability remains to be seen, the feel of my current Das with MX Blues and my Razer BW with Greetechs are functionally identical.

 

If either one dies post-warranty, I'll buy something else (probably go Ducky, or maybe a Unicomp and go really old school).   I've read a lot about people bitching about how XXX keyboard is no longer using Cherry switches and instead is using "cheap Chinese knock-offs", but so far nobody has been able to document any level of inferiority compared to Cherry MX.   Certainly lots of moaning about how they're Chinese and not German, but zero tech as to WHY they're actually inferior.

 

For me, no issues with my Das 4 Pro.   It's slightly softer than my original Das KB 3S, but I rather like the new feel, and the media keys and USB 3.0 hub are both very handy.   Honestly I don't think I've ever had a keyboard of ANY type die on me over the past 30 years....I've thrown some out simply because the keycaps wore out, or I was cleaning out storage, or I just wanted something new, but I can't think of a single keyboard that actually died on me.   So if my Razer or new Das dies on me, it will probably be the first.

 

 

Patrick

Edited August 3, 2016 by GR8-Ride

[Kleever]

28 minutes ago, Cosmopath said:

The MasterKeys Pro S and Pro L are both RGB keyboards that have both MX Blue and MX Brown variants. 

 

There's been a lot of research on Greetech switches done already. Going to use this as an example: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=71135.0

 

Greetech switches have variations when compared to Cherry switches, and while we can't really comment on reliability yet it seems that it's not necessarily for the better. I don't buy how your Das with MX Blues feel "functionally identical" to the Greetechs in the Razer BW, because they're quite obviously not an exact clone.

 

I did not try to say that the fact that Greetech switches are cheap Chinese knock-offs (and they quite obviously are) means that they're horrible, but due to their relatively recent arrival one should be cautious since there is not much accurate data on reliability. It could easily be another Kailh. 

 

Of course people complain because something is manufactured in China instead of Germany. If Audi changed their manufacturing operations from Germany to China you'd see a shit ton of complaints, and that's because people are much more skeptical of Chinese manufacturing because it is much more hit-and-miss than any other country.

 

Interesting you linked that page, it seems every comment was extremely positive regarding the switches from Greetech. A lot of comments said they're smoother than Cherry. There was a lot of praise for the brown and blue switches. In fact I see people saying the Greetech switches felt better than Cherry overall and would finally be switching to Greetech.

 

I do agree with you on your point the only negative aspect is their long term durability. Cherry have proven their switches are built to last but only time will tell if the Chinese alternatives can also last as long. I do still think, any manufacturer should be given a chance regardless if it's made in China or Germany.